Does our O-line suck?

MSUcantouchus · Post by **MSUcantouchus** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:58 pm

Does it?

Not trying to be negative but just wanting to get ideas why we are struggling.

Are they not very good or just to light overall? Most of the teams we have played are averaging around 300. We definately not that big and it looks to be killing our run game.

or,
Do the coaches not now how to teach blocking schemes?

or,
The running backs bad?

34 yards for our backs is not acceptable

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:01 pm

I don't think our OL is bad necessarily, but definately overrated. Lulay had great protection all day though. I think they are a better pass block unit than a run one.

Overall I'm pretty dissapointed with their performance this year thus far.

Catz Rock · Post by **Catz Rock** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:07 pm

I don't think our OL is bad necessarily, but definately overrated. Lulay had great protection all day though. I think they are a better pass block unit than a run one.

Overall I'm pretty dissapointed with their performance this year thus far

These guys are good when they want to be (OSU, SFA & NDSU). They just need to get pissed and start kicking some a$$

They need to get mean & nasty! They are NC quality and when they start believing it, the wins will come much more easily. Just comes down to believing in yourself like Lulay does.[/quote]

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:21 am

Like I said in a different thread, Kramer said (in the pregame) that we were gonna pass, pass, pass in this game, because of Webers man-to-man Defense. That is why we did not run the ball with our running backs. Travis ran because he was forced to/saw an open lane. I don't necessarily like that type of game plan, but I think it would have worked had Gatewood not been so off all day.

BobCatFan · Post by **BobCatFan** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:14 am

the o line could not run block last year and they can not run block this year. Before the season, members were saying this is the best o line in the history of the school. I did not believe then and I still not believe. Until we can run the ball at will, this line will be nothing but average.

I am starting to believe it is a coaching think because under Kamer, we have not been a good running teamng. Ok the first under Kamer with Ryan Johnson, we were a good running team.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:49 am

Reading this thread, not sure?? not about the OL, but about the thoughts.

There were a number of QB draws in the game, a very large number. You could tell by Lulay drop pattern. They were probably calls at the line by Lulay because of the drops of the LBs and DBs in reaction to the setup.

2nd. Groves actually ran well when given the rock.

3rd Lulay actually had good time yesterday (exept for the 3 or 4 Fosmark rushs, or was I watching a different game. One of those was against the TE on the left side. Lulay had time, especially on that last play when he had to pass and had to stand in there. WSU knew it was pass rush and they had to get to Lulay. Lulay just sat there waiting for Murray to run the 25 yard route.

4th, Kramer did say they were going to pass and then pass. If you noticed, they even put Gateway in the backfield to add another receiver. Rosey also split outside the normal split without any TEs. They ran an EMPTY backfield MULTIPLE times with all WRs (speed guys). You don't run an empty backfield without TEs if you don't have a huge trust in the OL and if you want to run. It's just imposssible to run then.

5th, OL only good when they want to be???? You have to be kidding!! Two DEs have given them trouble, Chris G at Cal Poly and Fosmark at Weber. Chris is going to win the Defensive Player of the year award in I-AA and be drafted this year. I actually think he is better than Beck at the same time in his career. Fosmark is only a 1-AA American already. That is why they are All-Americans?? Those guys will get their plays. All the other teams didn't do anything against the OL.

6th, on 4th and one at the goal, the OL put Lulay easily in for a TD. How many other teams have we seen fail doing the same thing against us? NDSU, ....

7th. What is the obsession on running at all costs, I hear go back to the days of Ryan Johnson. Seems to be that he didn't win a lot of games that year when they ran so well.

8th, (on and on and on)

well, never mind, I guess I could be the one wrong. We're just enjoying different games I guess.

kfrog · Post by **kfrog** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:58 am

I"m not sure our line is as good as predicted, we just never seem to be in control, the defense seems to knock us back not the other way. As for how well Lulay runs that is probably more his athletic ability then the line, our running backs haven't had much running room. I really thought that with the returning lineman we would be a dominant line, maybe the best in the BSC but we are not there yet, but could still be and need to be over the rest of the schedule.

2Cats · Post by **2Cats** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:11 am

Every week, our "O" game plan has been pass to set up the run. I'm happy with that mindset, but I am concerned that when it's time to run we cannot execute.

More troubling though is the amount of time our D is on the field. Bending but not breaking is good in the short term. But there is the fatigue factor in bending that will eventually cost us.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:17 am

You know, you are probably right.

OL can't run block of protect Lulay. It's Lulay that is just able to run and he doesn't get any time.

Gatewood can't catch the ball, so let's not throw to him.

JD and all the runners can't run so let's not hand them the game.

Rosey, Miller and Guinn can't really catch the ball consistently, so no reason to throw them the ball.

The DL can't rush to passer, nor can they stop the run.

The LBs can't stop the run. Have face mask penalties. Nor can they blitz, so ???

The DBs can't cover the receivers and have to many penalties. Always hitting the WRs late.

The TEs can't block, nor can they catch the ball.

The 3-4 doesn't work, but then we don't have enough DL to play anything else effectively.

We should go back to the 4-3 days of last year when we died the last 3 games of last year (if not more) because we couldn't stop the run.

Lulay had trouble passing yesterday. 3 INTERCEPTIONS. Passes behind and short (Probably to much pressure as some have said and he can't handle it??)

The Coaches don't know how to coach (several comments on that one). No knowledge of blocking technics or how to handle them. We can't blitz effectively. No sacks (more than WSU, but still no sacks).

OK, I UNDERSTAND. Let's just have LULAY run the ball. Possibly the other teams don't want to play offense so our D doesn't have to play.

We should also return the 4 wins we have, because we shouldn't be 4-2 and be in the top 10 1-AA. Because we really know that none of our positions really stack up against any part of the other teams. Well, except for Lulay running.

(Just a summary of all the different comments of why we are 0-6 and last in the BSC. Wait, maybe we are not, we're 4-2.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:52 am

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:30 am

BobcatLion,

Why do you find it necessary to bash those of us who are expressing concerns about our performance yesterday and in previous weeks?

I KNOW that we all want this team to win and I KNOW that we're all thankful that we are 4-2.

The reason I point out the negatives is that they will lead to losses against the better teams in the conference (which Weber is not). There is NO WAY a performance like yesterday's will yield a win at Eastern or at Portland or at home against the Griz.

I am damned proud of our defense for coming up with the stops/plays they made that turned a sure loss into an unbelievable win; I don't even need to state how I feel about Houdini's performance.

BUT, there were SO many weak areas and mistakes that need to be fixed/improved IMMEDIATELY that it's really hard to NOT be concerned about our upcoming games.

PSU IS OUR SEASON; THAT IS THE ATTITUDE WE ALL MUST HAVE. In bringing up the "negatives", I am simply trying to point out that we cannot expect to play like we did yesterday on the road and win any of our remaining road games. Does that mean I'm not happy as hell that we pulled yesterday's game out of our arses? Nope.

GO CATS; 2-0 and atop the Big Sky...!

MSUcantouchus · Post by **MSUcantouchus** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:10 pm

El Gato that was exactly what I was thinking!

We love our team and we are not trying to be negative we just see things that could be improved and we would like to have a rational conversation about how to improve it.

I think The O-line's run blocking is boardering on very bad and I wanted to know why. I happen to be leaning toward the idea that the coaching is lacking in that area. I think it may be the lack of size of our line but it is probably the fact that we dont have good running plays and the guys don't know what the best blocking schemes are.

The numbers don't lie. We had no running game last year and it is worse this year. The pass should be setting up the run. We have good players but for one reason or the other the running game is not coming together.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:18 pm

peedintunnel wrote:El Gato that was exactly what I was thinking!

We love our team and we are not trying to be negative we just see things that could be improved and we would like to have a rational conversation about how to improve it.

I think The O-line's run blocking is boardering on very bad and I wanted to know why. I happen to be leaning toward the idea that the coaching is lacking in that area. I think it may be the lack of size of our line but it is probably the fact that we dont have good running plays and the guys don't know what the best blocking schemes are.

The numbers don't lie. We had no running game last year and it is worse this year. The pass should be setting up the run. We have good players but for one reason or the other the running game is not coming together.

Last week with Bass out, they mentioned that Groves, Domineck, and Gathing would be getting some carries.

With Domineck's game last week then his polar opposite game this week, where was Gathing yesterday?

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:31 pm

Sorry for the bash, but (there is always a but in life), everything thing can't be wrong. Yes, it was a bash on the concept that everything is wrong. Not a bash on specific posters in the slightest. (as those posters would say they are NOT bashing the entire team).

On the simple topic of the OL, in a game where the staff decided NOT to run, the OL is "Bashed"? for not getting the running done. Interesting concept. Last week the runners were great getting yards, this week when their number is not called, they are bad because they didn't gain 100? Who would image that?

I guess, my thought was everything can't be wrong all the time and still be ranked high and win (granted close). If anything, the bashing I am seeing is of the team. I think that is wrong and I decided to post a summary of what I am seeing in multiple areas, not just this one.

In the game, actually Lulay was GREAT and not so good, all at the same time. His decision making to call QB Draws (yes, many where actual calls not blocking breaking down, watch the 4th quarter where most were again) and his running was the best I've seen. His passing was way off and 3 inteceptions? But with all that it's great he was there. The guy is a winner number one, pure and simple. But it is a team game. and they win as a team of all the players.

The point I was making was the glass is half full here. We have a lot of things going well. This is a very good MSU team. Doesn' mean everything is perfect. But to say the OL is bad and has been most of the year??? It's not the same games I'm watching or maybe my understanding is different. It will be interesting if ANY make the all conference team at the end of the year?? If it's as bad as is said here, then I would guess one 2nd teamers will be all (possibly Bolton) if that and the rest left out. We'll have to see.

Yes, it was a bash on the concept that everything is wrong. Not a bash on specific posters in the slightest. (as those posters would say they are NOT bashing the entire team).

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:01 pm

The only critique I have coming out of yesterday's game was that both of our tackles were guilty of allowing an inside lane for Fosmark. Like it has been said previously, players like him and Gocong are going to make their plays. But, let's at least make it as hard as possible on them.

Here's a question on our run play calling. It seems to me if you are going to use the pass to set up the run, then you want to take advantage of the team starting to "pass rush" and "blitz" a lot as a result of the passing.

I know I'm like an old record on this, but when you have a defense that's in that mindset, counter traps, play action boot legs, shovel passes, pulling lineman on sweeps could all be effective.

I am going to make a point to watch only the line this next game. I want to see if they are using any cross block techniques, etc.

I know Travis called several audibles to qb sneaks yesterday. But, I'd really like to see our running backs take some more of that responsibility to try and ensure he stays healthy.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:52 pm

I thought it would be interesting to relive this thread for the heck of it.

I think the question was answered in the last two games.

At EWU (even though we lost) the OL gave Lulay unlimited time to throw (they were just not caught). Groves runs for 100+ yards.

In the UM game the OL gave Lulay unlimited time to throw (especially when hurt and non mobil). Groves runs for 140+ yards.

Three make all-conference (and probably one other should have) and Bolton will be All-american and we have a good chance of watching him on Sunday's now that he is a center. I hear he might be playing in the Las Vegas All-Star game in January.

It appears to me the OL didn't necessarily suck all year at least.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:00 pm

I definitely never thought the OL "sucked" this year. More than anything, it was a matter of Kramer finally committing to the run.

SteelheadBum · Post by **SteelheadBum** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:10 pm

not when they are compared to the griz O-Line...........and they are certainly better than the griz D-Line.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:21 pm

I still can't understand why it took SO long for our running game to establish itself.

Was it because our line COULDN'T run block early in the season?

Was it because Kramer/Bailey simply WOULDN'T commit to it?

Why did it take so long to commit to Groves as the #1 guy?

Even when we did start running effectively, why didn't we run more play-action with Lulay under center instead of in the shotgun?

Any answers/thoughts?

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:30 pm

Guys got healthy - that's it. The troubles early in the season indicated a lack of depth beyond the starters...that will get better too.