Idaho to the WAC....is it time to look at the Dakotas?

WYOBISONMAN · Post by **WYOBISONMAN** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 12:22 pm

With the move of Idaho to the WAC Fullerton's dream of an Idaho return to the BSC has gone from being on life support to dead and in the ground. Maybe it is time for the BSC to look at NDSU and SDSU for membership in the conference. While I am glad NDSU is in the GWC for football, I would prefer to see them in the BSC when all the dust settles. What are the thoughts of the Montana State fans as to how the landscape has changed with the news of Idaho going to the WAC.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:09 pm

1st
I would Like to see The better Dakota schools in the Big Sky, and Possibly loose a couple of " western" teams from the Big Sky. I do not want to rip any current Big Sky teams, but at times I do question their commitment to the sports and the level they need to be at. Look at though the core Big Sky teams and you will find schools very much likr the Dakota schools. UM, MSU, are the top level schools in their states. ISU, Weber, and EWU, while secondary to "Mid to High Major" programs have are also well know in each of their state. I have always had questions about EWU, but recently I really feel they have turned a corner. If you live in one of these states and are any kind of sports fan, on Sunday you look to at least check their score. That, in my opinion, is what the Big Sky Conference is all about, smaller schools but a large and diverse pool of support from across their state. Who in Oregon or California check out PSU and Sac. St.? They are still pretty much a niche sport/attraction in their states. I really think the Dakota schools fit in well that way, but I am curiuos to see how there first couple of years at the D-1 level goes, more off the field than on.
2nd
I am not totally convinced Idaho has found a home D-1. Yes, I would like them back. No, I do not think they should be at the D-1 level for football, basketball or tidly-winks. No, I do not see them back in the Big Sky in the next 5 years. That said, though, Idaho is chasing Boise State, blindly, and stupidly. They do not have nearly the resorces that Boise State has, and have yet to show me even one reason/ sport that deserves to compete at the D-1a level, as a matter of fact I would guess their last D-1aa teams were better than their current D-1a teams. It would not surprise me at all if Idaho did come back into the D-1aa fold in the future, and I would welcome them back.
3rd
Fullerton Is a Idiot

Post by **kmax** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:10 pm

I don't know if anybody really thought Idaho would ever come back to the sky. Hard to believe that even Fullerton could be delusional enough to really believe that it was a possibility. I have to think that that thinking was more of an excuse for not expanding and/or inviting some of the other schools than actually thinking that Idaho was coming back.

That said, I would be in favor of bringing the Dakato schools into the Sky as I think it would be nice to have some more institutions that are the main draws for their state/area as opposed to commuter type schools. Not to say that I have a problem with the likes of NAU, EWU etc. it just seems that they tend to get overshadowed by the larger Universities in their states whereas I don't see that happening(with the exception of UND hockey) with NDSU and SDSU.

Unless we lose Sac St. or Portland St however I just don't think it will happen anytime soon, at least not until things get settled with I-A conference shifts to see if any I-AA moves up, any changes in Div I football, etc. which could be several years.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:57 pm

Idaho will never drop down to 1AA, but it is still possible that the 1A/AA distinction will change to a CFA/Non-CFA type distinction, in which case schools like Idaho and USU might be interested in the Big Sky or a new conference. Until the NCAA decides what they're doing, there's not much point in talking about it. We could actually see PSU and CSUS move up to 1A, as the requirements have been loosened and they can't make any money in 1AA. It looks like CSUS is starting to make some major infrastructure moves. You'd have to say EWU is almost leading the league in "revenue" sports success, lately. I'm sure CSUS would like to be in the same league as their rival UCD, and in a conference for the sports that the Big Sky doesn't sponsor.

I think some of the Big Sky schools should be playing at the same level as other regional schools such as UI, Wyoming, Utah State, etc., but that will not happen by them dropping down a level. It may well happen some other way. Idaho is a pretty classy (land grant) school and I wish them well; they'll do better in a "western" conference, as opposed to the Sun Belt. Idaho has done better financially as a 1A, even if their sports success has been pretty dismal up until this season.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:17 pm

A RESOUNDING YES! I would love to see NDSU and UND both eventually become members of the Big Sky Conference. UND is at Div II level, but the 2 I really would like to see in the Big Sky Conference would be UND and SDSU. University of Northern Colorado I would like to see in the Big Sky as well, however I am not sure how their other sports programs compare.

This is the Big Sky Conference I would love to have happen:

MONTANA STATE UNIVERSITY
UNIVERSITY OF MONTANA
IDAHO STATE UNIVERSITY
WEBER STATE UNIVERSITY
EASTERN WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY
NORTHERN ARIZONA UNIVERSITY
NORTH DAKOTA STATE UNIVERSITY
SOUTH DAKOTA STATE UNIVERSITY

And for MSU rivalry I would also like University of Northern Colorado, but I am not sure on how they support their other sports/how strong they are etc. The universities mentioned above all have strong sports tradition it seems like (UND I put in there as well, but they may not make the move out a result of their Hockey team etc. too? Not sure how that would equate etc. I think they like to be associated with a little more Eastern type conference I think for their recruiting etc.).

Post by **kmax** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:46 pm

velochat wrote:Idaho will never drop down to 1AA, but it is still possible that the 1A/AA distinction will change to a CFA/Non-CFA type distinction, in which case schools like Idaho and USU might be interested in the Big Sky or a new conference.

No offense to the Big Sky as I love the conference, but even if that type of change happened why on earth would Idaho or USU leave the WAC to come to the Big Sky? I could see it if Idaho was still stuck in the Sun Belt and that change happened, but not from the WAC.

CARDIAC_CATS wrote: This is the Big Sky Conference I would love to have happen:

MONTANA STATE UNIVERSITY
UNIVERSITY OF MONTANA
IDAHO STATE UNIVERSITY
WEBER STATE UNIVERSITY
EASTERN WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY
NORTHERN ARIZONA UNIVERSITY
NORTH DAKOTA STATE UNIVERSITY
SOUTH DAKOTA STATE UNIVERSITY

And for MSU rivalry I would also like University of Northern Colorado

I totally agree Cardiac, that would be a very nice conference to be in, though one would have to admit that it leaves Weber and especially NAU a long ways from alot of others. Would be even better if we brought in Northern Colorado and Southern Utah also and for football could split into two divisions similar to what the A10 is doing this year.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:53 pm

I don't even know who is in the WAC, now? If it includes BSU and Nevada, I agree that it would be a much better conference than the Big Sky for Idaho. The WAC is certainly not what it once was. Nonetheless, if the 1A/AA distinction goes away, we might be playing some of these schools (non-conference) on a near even footing in the future. UNC or NDSU, while good programs don't have the same marketing appeal as BSU, Idaho, Nevada, etc. The Big Sky is not the conference it was when these schools were members and the "montanas", should keep their eyes open for a better home if things change.

A good thing is that several schools want to be Big Sky members, so any defectors could be replaced. I think UNC would be the first choice, as they would not change the geography too much, and a presence in Colorado might have some advantages for recruiting and marketing.

If nothing happens and the Big Sky stays the same for a few years, that's OK with me, too. Eight is a good number.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 3:58 pm

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:03 pm

Link:

http://www.wacsports.com/article.asp?articleid=57975

This would indicate that the WAC is adding 2 members and losing 3.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:18 pm

Actually I think they are adding three and losing four by comparing the listing at the bottom of the article against the team links at the top.

Current:
Boise State
Fresno State
Hawai‘i
Louisiana Tech
Nevada
Rice
San Jose State
SMU (Southern Methodist)
UTEP (Texas- El Paso)
Tulsa

2005:
Boise State
Fresno State
Hawai`i
Idaho
Louisiana Tech
Nevada
New Mexico State
San Jose State
Utah State

So they lose Rice, SMU, UTEP, and Tulsa and gain Idaho, New Mexico State and Utah State.

89rabbit · Post by **89rabbit** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:31 pm

velochat wrote:I I think UNC would be the first choice, as they would not change the geography too much, and a presence in Colorado might have some advantages for recruiting and marketing.

Although SDSU and NDSU have shown interest in being members of the Big Sky (as well as other more Eastern conferences), UNC has not. The reason that Northern Colorado has not shown interest in the Big Sky is because football AND baseball are the big sports at UNC and the Big Sky dosen't offer baseball. UNC has said from the begining that the Mid-Con is their first choice. My prediction all along has been that all three of the former NCC members (UNC, NDSU, and SDSU) will end up in a new two division Mid-Con and Great West Football Conference.

To take it one step further, I have seen speculation on other boards that Sac-State would leave the Big Sky and join the Big West/Great West. Since it would be too late to add the Dakotas that the Big Sky would take Southern Utah from the Mid-Con/Great West and then the Mid-Con would take Denver from the Sun Belt. Lots of dominoes left to fall. Time will tell.

velochat · Post by **velochat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:46 pm

The new WAC makes a nice western conference, with the exception of LaTech, which is probably shopping for better options. I think Hawaii and some others are hoping for the Mountain West. As you said, many chips yet to fall.

89rabbit · Post by **89rabbit** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:49 pm

Very true, if the WAC loses any members to the Mountain West (Boise St., Fresno St., and or Hawaii) there is talk that they will go after you and Montana to fill in thier ranks. More stuff to speculate on.

raincat · Post by **raincat** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:07 pm

Pretty sure as long as Commissioner Fullerton is in charge you won't see Southern Utah in the BSC.
Would enjoy seeing NDSU either a member of the BSC, or a regular on our schedule again. They have long been proud of their football program and the game in Missoula last year was no fluke. When they are at 62 (or whatever the D-1AA scholarship limit is) full rides they will be double tough. Some of our most exciting games ever were against NDSU. We are 10-9 lifetime, the last game in 1980. Cats 21-19.

89rabbit · Post by **89rabbit** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:11 pm

63 scholarships are the limit at I-AA. The Bison are moving quickly to get there. SDSU is taking a little more time we plan to be at 63 about the same time that we are playoff eligible in '08. I am looking forward to our meeting this fall in Bozeman and the return trip to Brookings, SD the next fall. Should be fun!

WYOBISONMAN · Post by **WYOBISONMAN** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:26 am

Hockey drives the mentality at UND, so I doubt that they will jump to D1 unless they are forced to do it. The only thing that will force them is if NDSU and the D1 move makes them really look and feel second rate (hell, I think they are third rate already....

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Idaho to the WAC....is it time to look at the Dakotas?

Idaho to the WAC....is it time to look at the Dakotas?

realignment

Re: realignment

UND....