I am not in town to watch todays scrum...can anybody please fill me in on the details of the scrimmage today? Who looked good? Who looked bad? Any details I'd love to hear how it went. What was the O-line looking like? Secondary?
Thanks
Spring Scrimmage
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GreatLakesCat
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ralph
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official report
Montana State Defense Dominates Spring Finale
Montana State's defense turned the tables on Saturday, forcing five interceptions and outscoring the offense 52-28 in the Sonny Holland Classic scrimmage which closed MSU's spring practice session. Free safety Ryan Force intercepted three passes and strong safety Toph Grenfell nabbed two to spearhead the Bobcat effort. Grenfell returned one of his interceptions for a touchdown. ...
Montana State's defense turned the tables on Saturday, forcing five interceptions and outscoring the offense 52-28 in the Sonny Holland Classic scrimmage which closed MSU's spring practice session. Free safety Ryan Force intercepted three passes and strong safety Toph Grenfell nabbed two to spearhead the Bobcat effort. Grenfell returned one of his interceptions for a touchdown. ...
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FCS IS BEST!
FCS IS BEST!
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HelenaCat
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The articles in the papers are all pretty accurate. The defenses pretty much dominated, specially the first half. The offenses had their moments in the second half and started moving the ball better, but overall it was the defense's day.
Ryan Force really looks like a Morgan Ryan type safety with a nose for the ball and interceptions. he really looked good all day. He played one game last year at Portland when Kenny Qualls was injured, and got an interception then also. He also got the strength award in his weight group. He looks very solid as the statrter at free safety. The other safety that played well was the JC Grenfell.
If the secondary can come together next year, the defense should be very good again. We have a lot of good looking linebackers and the defensive line should also be pretty solid. I would like a bit more size there, but they are all quick and tenacious. Sebastian and Clark are both warriors-we need a few other guys to work hard and develop so those two get some rest next year.
On offense, I thought the RBs all looked good. Gathing appears to be the starter and looked very good in the second half. he runs very hard and has some speed at about 210 lbs. He does not have the speed to be running east-west, but is a very good north-south runner. McInierny is smaller at about 188 lbs, but gets to the line very quickly and is shifty. I don't see him as a starter, but could be a very good change of pace type back. It was hard to tell much with Milton. he ran hard, but did not seem to have great speed. But we need to give him time as he is just coming off surgery and can't be anywhere near 100 percent.
I was also pretty pleased overall with the receivers. If Chaz Quinn is as good as advertised next fall, we should be very solid there. We have a lot of depth now with some good quality. In fact, our go to guy at the end of last year after Turnquist got hurt, Demetrius Williams, was playing with the twos. Ricky Gatewood looked very good to me, and was even playing hurt most of the day. If some younger players like Kellen Alley (he also played well yesterday), Brandon Roosevelt, etc can keep improving, there is no question our receivers should be much improved over last year.
The O-line is much deeper than last year, but is still a bit of a concern, mostly due to size in my mind. Our first string had Hirst at RT(292), Bolton at right guard(318), and Wolf at center(285). No concerns ther and a very good group. On the right side though, we had Birkeland at left gaurd(258) and Jensen at left Tackle(255). Both of those guys appeared to play well and move very well. I would just like to see them both above 270 next year. Someone please feed them well this summer
The second team offensive line was actually a bit bigger overall, and included DeCock, Canfield, Figuroa, Farrar, Brewton, and Nellermore. The first 3-4 of those could be in the mix next year, but I imagine the other 2 are still a bit away. I believe Echauri is injured this spring, but he will also provide depth next year.
Neither QB was sharp yesterday. Coppack especially looked rattled a bit. But he does have some good skills with a strong arm and looked very quick when he ran once. He has probably not seen much defensive pressure yet like he was exposed to yesterday, but he does show promise-just needs more reps and experience. Travis did not look sharp either. he still needs to improve his accuracy a bit and he threw a few balls into coverage yesterday that he shouldn't have attempted. but his strength of moving in the pocket and possibly taking off was kept to a minimum with the scrimmage rules, and I am not too worried about him.
Overall, it was fun to watch football again and I am looking forward to next year. I really thought overall, we look better at this point than last year. Some holes to fill, but I think we will find the players to fill them.
Ryan Force really looks like a Morgan Ryan type safety with a nose for the ball and interceptions. he really looked good all day. He played one game last year at Portland when Kenny Qualls was injured, and got an interception then also. He also got the strength award in his weight group. He looks very solid as the statrter at free safety. The other safety that played well was the JC Grenfell.
If the secondary can come together next year, the defense should be very good again. We have a lot of good looking linebackers and the defensive line should also be pretty solid. I would like a bit more size there, but they are all quick and tenacious. Sebastian and Clark are both warriors-we need a few other guys to work hard and develop so those two get some rest next year.
On offense, I thought the RBs all looked good. Gathing appears to be the starter and looked very good in the second half. he runs very hard and has some speed at about 210 lbs. He does not have the speed to be running east-west, but is a very good north-south runner. McInierny is smaller at about 188 lbs, but gets to the line very quickly and is shifty. I don't see him as a starter, but could be a very good change of pace type back. It was hard to tell much with Milton. he ran hard, but did not seem to have great speed. But we need to give him time as he is just coming off surgery and can't be anywhere near 100 percent.
I was also pretty pleased overall with the receivers. If Chaz Quinn is as good as advertised next fall, we should be very solid there. We have a lot of depth now with some good quality. In fact, our go to guy at the end of last year after Turnquist got hurt, Demetrius Williams, was playing with the twos. Ricky Gatewood looked very good to me, and was even playing hurt most of the day. If some younger players like Kellen Alley (he also played well yesterday), Brandon Roosevelt, etc can keep improving, there is no question our receivers should be much improved over last year.
The O-line is much deeper than last year, but is still a bit of a concern, mostly due to size in my mind. Our first string had Hirst at RT(292), Bolton at right guard(318), and Wolf at center(285). No concerns ther and a very good group. On the right side though, we had Birkeland at left gaurd(258) and Jensen at left Tackle(255). Both of those guys appeared to play well and move very well. I would just like to see them both above 270 next year. Someone please feed them well this summer
The second team offensive line was actually a bit bigger overall, and included DeCock, Canfield, Figuroa, Farrar, Brewton, and Nellermore. The first 3-4 of those could be in the mix next year, but I imagine the other 2 are still a bit away. I believe Echauri is injured this spring, but he will also provide depth next year.Neither QB was sharp yesterday. Coppack especially looked rattled a bit. But he does have some good skills with a strong arm and looked very quick when he ran once. He has probably not seen much defensive pressure yet like he was exposed to yesterday, but he does show promise-just needs more reps and experience. Travis did not look sharp either. he still needs to improve his accuracy a bit and he threw a few balls into coverage yesterday that he shouldn't have attempted. but his strength of moving in the pocket and possibly taking off was kept to a minimum with the scrimmage rules, and I am not too worried about him.
Overall, it was fun to watch football again and I am looking forward to next year. I really thought overall, we look better at this point than last year. Some holes to fill, but I think we will find the players to fill them.
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canyoncat
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Is the move of Nellermoe to O-line going to be permanent?
Sounds like the RB postition is going to be extremely deep come fall with the arrival of Domineck. I like the fact that now he has to work for the starting position instead of it just being handed to him. It will make him a better back in the long run.
GO CATS!!
Sounds like the RB postition is going to be extremely deep come fall with the arrival of Domineck. I like the fact that now he has to work for the starting position instead of it just being handed to him. It will make him a better back in the long run.
GO CATS!!
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lifesapuntreturn
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quote:
4/19/04 Fritz Neighbor Billings Gazette
...freshman strong safety John Lebrum, who had one of seven interceptions Saturday for the defense,...
...All of which brought faint praise on a drizzly, cold afternoon that saw the offenses struggle for the most part. Quarterback Travis Lulay threw for 150 yards and two scores, but also had three picks - Nos. 3, 4 and 5 of the spring. All five went to fellow Oregonian and roommate Ryan Force, a promising 196-pound sophomore free safety.
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quote:
4/17/04 Bill Lamberty MSU Sports Information
Montana State's defense turned the tables on Saturday, forcing five interceptions and outscoring the offense 52-28 in the Sonny Holland Classic scrimmage which closed MSU's spring practice session.
Free safety Ryan Force intercepted three passes and strong safety Toph Grenfell nabbed two to spearhead the Bobcat effort. Grenfell returned one of his interceptions for a touchdown.
...Aside from the five interceptions combined, the play of MSU's safeties, Force and Grenfell, caught Kramer's eye...
...While Kramer was pleased with his team's effort this spring, he carries concerns into the fall. "The greatest concern of the coaching staff is that middle group of players," he said. "Not the top group -- Travis Lulay, Blake Wolf, Roger Cooper, Ray Sebestyen -- but the next group of guys. Those quasi-starters are a long ways away. That middle group has to grow the most over the summer and in the four weeks of practice (next fall) before the season starts."...
PASSING
Travis Lulay 27-14-3, 150, 2; Rick Coppack 23-10-4, 116, 1.
DEFENSIVE HIGHLIGHTS
Interceptions -- Ryan Force 3, Toph Grenfell 2, John Lebrum 1, Mike Weiss 1.
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I wasn't at the scrimmage so I don't know which interception figure is accurate, the 7 reported by Neighbor in his column and or the 5 reported by Lamberty in his column. (I assume 7 is correct since both the passing and interceptions stats support that number).
In either case, the number of interceptions jumped out at me as I read both of these stories. On the surface that appears to be too many, especially the 3 on Saturday and his 5 total for the spring by Lulay. I know these are just intra-squad scrimmages and that there may be various explanations for them - the defense knows the plays and routes as well as the offense does; these were controlled scrimmages and the qb's aren't allowed to scramble or run as they could in a game; passes get tipped at the line of scrimmage; passes bounce off receivers hands; receivers slip and fall; receivers run the wrong route; etc., etc. Since they are just scrimmages, maybe the coaches told the qb's to force the ball in there to see if the receivers can go get the ball.
Again, I don't know all of the circumstances, but on the surface it appears to me there is a problem here, especially with a two year starter throwing 5 picks in the spring and three in a game. When I see 4 picks by the backup qb, that also raises questions to me, although I realize he's inexperienced.
That having been said, hats off to the defense and to the db's for not only getting to the ball but holding on to it for the interceptions and returning one for a td.
I know Kramer says he's not worried about Lulay, but should he be? Or are the int's just a spring ball/scrimmage thing?
4/19/04 Fritz Neighbor Billings Gazette
...freshman strong safety John Lebrum, who had one of seven interceptions Saturday for the defense,...
...All of which brought faint praise on a drizzly, cold afternoon that saw the offenses struggle for the most part. Quarterback Travis Lulay threw for 150 yards and two scores, but also had three picks - Nos. 3, 4 and 5 of the spring. All five went to fellow Oregonian and roommate Ryan Force, a promising 196-pound sophomore free safety.
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quote:
4/17/04 Bill Lamberty MSU Sports Information
Montana State's defense turned the tables on Saturday, forcing five interceptions and outscoring the offense 52-28 in the Sonny Holland Classic scrimmage which closed MSU's spring practice session.
Free safety Ryan Force intercepted three passes and strong safety Toph Grenfell nabbed two to spearhead the Bobcat effort. Grenfell returned one of his interceptions for a touchdown.
...Aside from the five interceptions combined, the play of MSU's safeties, Force and Grenfell, caught Kramer's eye...
...While Kramer was pleased with his team's effort this spring, he carries concerns into the fall. "The greatest concern of the coaching staff is that middle group of players," he said. "Not the top group -- Travis Lulay, Blake Wolf, Roger Cooper, Ray Sebestyen -- but the next group of guys. Those quasi-starters are a long ways away. That middle group has to grow the most over the summer and in the four weeks of practice (next fall) before the season starts."...
PASSING
Travis Lulay 27-14-3, 150, 2; Rick Coppack 23-10-4, 116, 1.
DEFENSIVE HIGHLIGHTS
Interceptions -- Ryan Force 3, Toph Grenfell 2, John Lebrum 1, Mike Weiss 1.
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I wasn't at the scrimmage so I don't know which interception figure is accurate, the 7 reported by Neighbor in his column and or the 5 reported by Lamberty in his column. (I assume 7 is correct since both the passing and interceptions stats support that number).
In either case, the number of interceptions jumped out at me as I read both of these stories. On the surface that appears to be too many, especially the 3 on Saturday and his 5 total for the spring by Lulay. I know these are just intra-squad scrimmages and that there may be various explanations for them - the defense knows the plays and routes as well as the offense does; these were controlled scrimmages and the qb's aren't allowed to scramble or run as they could in a game; passes get tipped at the line of scrimmage; passes bounce off receivers hands; receivers slip and fall; receivers run the wrong route; etc., etc. Since they are just scrimmages, maybe the coaches told the qb's to force the ball in there to see if the receivers can go get the ball.
Again, I don't know all of the circumstances, but on the surface it appears to me there is a problem here, especially with a two year starter throwing 5 picks in the spring and three in a game. When I see 4 picks by the backup qb, that also raises questions to me, although I realize he's inexperienced.
That having been said, hats off to the defense and to the db's for not only getting to the ball but holding on to it for the interceptions and returning one for a td.
I know Kramer says he's not worried about Lulay, but should he be? Or are the int's just a spring ball/scrimmage thing?
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catatac
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I wasn't at this one either, so I don't know the circumstances of how the Int's happened, but it concerns me zero percent. Am I sugar coating the issue? Maybe, but I don't think so. My point? Int's happen - for alot of reasons. Lulay threw 4 in one game during the season opener last year. That matched his total from the season before. Most likely he was forcing throws in like you mentioned. More exciting though, is the possibility that the secondary just kicked it up a huge notch!!! 
I really don't think we'll have any glaring weak spots come fall, and I can guarantee that if we do end up with any weak areas, they won't be at QB! That is if a somewhat informed statement after watching the 1st 2 scrimmages. Both QB's looked solid in the other scrimmages.
I really don't think we'll have any glaring weak spots come fall, and I can guarantee that if we do end up with any weak areas, they won't be at QB! That is if a somewhat informed statement after watching the 1st 2 scrimmages. Both QB's looked solid in the other scrimmages.Great time to be a BOBCAT!
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MSU01
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There were 7 INT's... all but one or two came on deep routes with the free safety intercepting the pass. Several were on 3rd and long situations when an interception 30 yards downfield isn't really any worse than a punt. Not anything to be worried about in my opinion. If anything it suggested that Force and Grenfell will be more than adequate replacements for Qualls.
Last edited by MSU01 on Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Helcat72
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I was there...and because Travis couldn't run, he had to either throw the ball or stand there and take a "sack"...so he threw the ball...might as well give the receiver the chance to fight for the ball. Of course Ryan force is pretty tall and out jumped the receivers to the ball on a couple of occasions. In a real game he would have tucked the ball and ran for a first down! No passes thrown in the rythm were intecepted, in fact Travis looked sharp on the slants, and skinny posts. The only passes he looked a little sloppy on were the bubble screens and TE drags where he tended to throw the ball at the receivers' shoetops.
As for Coppack, he threw at open receivers but the DB broke on the ball very well. He just didn't have the peripheral visoin to know the DB (Grenfell mostly) was holding back just waiting for him to throw.
As for Coppack, he threw at open receivers but the DB broke on the ball very well. He just didn't have the peripheral visoin to know the DB (Grenfell mostly) was holding back just waiting for him to throw.
2024 Resume dominance
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Cat Pride
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Now that is some well done ESPN College Gameday analysis. Good work Helcat, much appreciated.
After hearing that description of the scrum last Saturday, I feel better that the DBs actually stayed with receivers and picked off passes than I would had the WRs and Lulay connected on all of them. Goes to show how much the DBs have learned this spring, and hopefully will garner some depth and competition with Eddie Smith and Corkey Lindsey with their much awaited arrival in Bozeman this summer.
As for the offense (passing game) I am glad to hear that the Cats are going through all the phases, and being successful in all phases as well. Screens, slants, patterns stretching the field, and especially throwing to the TE. If Domineck and Guinn are as advertised, this upcoming season could very well be Kramers most prolific offensive team at MSU, and that bodes well with the studs returning on the defensive side of the ball.
Now, if we can just have some kids step up for depth...the Cats could be in for one heck of a season.
After hearing that description of the scrum last Saturday, I feel better that the DBs actually stayed with receivers and picked off passes than I would had the WRs and Lulay connected on all of them. Goes to show how much the DBs have learned this spring, and hopefully will garner some depth and competition with Eddie Smith and Corkey Lindsey with their much awaited arrival in Bozeman this summer.
As for the offense (passing game) I am glad to hear that the Cats are going through all the phases, and being successful in all phases as well. Screens, slants, patterns stretching the field, and especially throwing to the TE. If Domineck and Guinn are as advertised, this upcoming season could very well be Kramers most prolific offensive team at MSU, and that bodes well with the studs returning on the defensive side of the ball.
Now, if we can just have some kids step up for depth...the Cats could be in for one heck of a season.
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canyoncat
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You got that right Cat Pride. If the young guns step up and provide quality depth we could be in for one heck of a season. I really think it all depends on how the secondary developes. I think Gluhm is set for a huge senior season with 12 sacks. From what I can gather from readings and what I have seen here it appears he will start ahead of Lowe this season. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on that.
The o-line looks set and deep, just hope that Birkeland and Jensen gain some weight this summer. How big are they right now? According to the roster they are still listed at what they were last year. I am pretty sure Jensen is bigger than 235 (at least I hope).
Does anybody know if Carpenter will be ready to play by fall camp?
I'd say it was a successful spring camp, and look forward to seeing the new guys come in and compete
GO CATS!!
The o-line looks set and deep, just hope that Birkeland and Jensen gain some weight this summer. How big are they right now? According to the roster they are still listed at what they were last year. I am pretty sure Jensen is bigger than 235 (at least I hope).
Does anybody know if Carpenter will be ready to play by fall camp?
I'd say it was a successful spring camp, and look forward to seeing the new guys come in and compete
GO CATS!!
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catatac
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Cat Pride
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W/ Jensens frame, he should be able to pile on the pounds. I'd love to see Peder around 285 and Birkeland around 270.
Sometimes I think too much emphasis is put on OL weights. Look at the best OL in the NFL - Denver. Their line averages around 285 and is athletic, strong and SMART instead of 300 lbs fattys. Saying that, I dont think that Bolton or DeCock are fattys or any of our starters for that fact.
The OL is all about footword, technique and being one mean bastard who loves to mix it up.
Sometimes I think too much emphasis is put on OL weights. Look at the best OL in the NFL - Denver. Their line averages around 285 and is athletic, strong and SMART instead of 300 lbs fattys. Saying that, I dont think that Bolton or DeCock are fattys or any of our starters for that fact.
The OL is all about footword, technique and being one mean bastard who loves to mix it up.
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canyoncat
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I agree with your statement that we can sometimes get caught up with the weight of an O-Linemen. If they have the footwork, strength and attitude it doesn't really matter too much. The Denver O-line has been alot of fun to watch over the years. However, I just don't see how Jensen at 6-5 255 is going to handle some of the power rushers in the BSC (if there are any) or in anyother conferences that the Cats may face if we make the playoffs again. I am fairly certain he has great foot work considering his volleyball background (not sure if he played basketball), so I think he will handle the speed rushers. Just not sure about the power guys. I have to remember that he is only a redshirt freshman who has 4 years to develope. If he plays like Hirst did last year he will be fine.
Birkeland I am not worried about. He may be only 258, but he is only about 6-1 and has a lower center of balance. I know he also has a great attitude and is really quick. He will be fine. Kramer and McEndoo seem to be really high on him, so I will trust them.
Any views on some the backups like Patrick Farrar, Garin Brewton, Travis Nellermoe (if he is to play OG this fall), DeCock and the rest?
I am really excited about the new guys coming in as freshman this fall. Beniger, Ophus and Smith should provide a solid foundation for a bunch of years.
GO CATS!!
Birkeland I am not worried about. He may be only 258, but he is only about 6-1 and has a lower center of balance. I know he also has a great attitude and is really quick. He will be fine. Kramer and McEndoo seem to be really high on him, so I will trust them.
Any views on some the backups like Patrick Farrar, Garin Brewton, Travis Nellermoe (if he is to play OG this fall), DeCock and the rest?
I am really excited about the new guys coming in as freshman this fall. Beniger, Ophus and Smith should provide a solid foundation for a bunch of years.
GO CATS!!
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HelenaCat
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Catatac: Both Lowe and Gluhm played with the 1st team defense on saturday. It will be interesting to see if the Texas A&M guy can displace one of those guys, or will just provide more size and depth. Both Gluhm and Lowe were listed at around 230-235 lbs.
Beal played second team corner. I did not watch close enough to see how well he did. I heard that Daws is out with a shoulder injury that required surgery and that it is not healing as well as hoped/anticipated. Finally, I bel;ieve that Barbero left the team for "personal reasons" this spring-I do not know if he will be coming back or not, or what the issues are.
Beal played second team corner. I did not watch close enough to see how well he did. I heard that Daws is out with a shoulder injury that required surgery and that it is not healing as well as hoped/anticipated. Finally, I bel;ieve that Barbero left the team for "personal reasons" this spring-I do not know if he will be coming back or not, or what the issues are.