Basketball against Carroll

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:33 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:I really liked Holmes game last year. He seems to me to be the only true point guard on the team. And i think that we need to remember one other thing, our point guards don't do anything as far as getting other players open shots. Holmes seems like a guy who would come in and pass first, penetrate and dish second, and third shoot.

So imo, Jefferson should hardly ever see the bench. he is the most complete player we have.

Holmes is our most improved player after last year, but Jefferson also makes things happen when no one else can. Yes, he is a scorer, but he also dishes out many assists. He averages 3 assists per game, whereas Holmes only averages 1 (on the year).

Jefferson dished out 6 in last nights game, scored 16, and played 36 minutes. You are right, he is our most complete player. He has only played less than 30 minutes in one game, and he fouled out of that game (Lamar).

As to what people were saying about him getting in trouble with the coaching staff, so did Miller. Granted some of that stemmed back to family problems, but so did Holmes's. He missed the DU game because he attended his grandmothers (??) funeral. I still agree with you that Holmes is our only true PG.

mslacatfan · Post by **mslacatfan** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:19 pm

Yeah, people have been mentioning how durham always takes out the hot players. I agree, that is one thing I have never understood, I think rotating people can definitely have its benefits, but he seems to always go out of his way to take out the hottest player right after they hit a big three or something. Also people have been mentioning how there is not a true leader on this team, I completely agree. I really wish either Moss, Jefferson, or Dissly would step up and take over. From what I've seen, it looks like the closest thing to a leader so far has been jefferson... Anyway, I think if they could find a leader it would really help this team.

kooper · Post by **kooper** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:45 pm

I myself agree with alot of the points AZCAT has made, it seems like he really knows the game. Mick's subbing patterns have always bugged the $hit out of me. Look at any top notch program, i'll take Duke for instance, come conference/conference tourney/ncaa tourney time the majority of teams only play a 7-8-9 man rotation. This is key to keeping players in rhythm, and getting maximum production out of your team. If every man in that rotation plays his heart out they should be able to do so for 25-35 minutes. I realize this is pre-conference, and maybe Mick is experimenting with different combinations and players but playing a 8 man rotation is the way to go. All eight know they're gonna get their minutes and tend to play more team oriented basketball, where right now, they'll touch it and chuck it and look over at the bench wondering if they're going to get pulled. My top 8 would be Jefferson, Miller, Dissly, Durham, Beye, Moss, Holmes, and any combination of Pratt/Morris/Durr off the bench depending on matchups, foul trouble, etc. I also think Jefferson, Miller, and Moss need to get 30+ minutes a game to be effective. I like the defensive spark Durham brings off the bench, and would like to see Dissly contribute more anyway he can. I've heard Holmes got in the doghouse in Alaska. I still haven't seen much out of him but have heard good things. Some game time P.T should determine what minutes he earns...but he needs a chance.

4everacatfan · Post by **4everacatfan** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:48 pm

Please we all have to admit this was a no win type of game. We lose everyone once Durham fired. We win but not by enough people want him fired.

It is early in the eason he is still trying to find the best combonations. Carroll was pumped their guys were playing to prove something to Durham and his staff. At least Durham has the courage to schedule a Frontier team that went to the Nationals and made it to Semifinal night. The Friz schedule Western great offense but no defense. Should be an easy when for them.

Save your complaining for conference season. Like one poster said earlier many of you are starting to sound like the Egriz bandwagoners.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:39 pm

4everacatfan wrote:Please we all have to admit this was a no win type of game. We lose everyone once Durham fired. We win but not by enough people want him fired.

It is early in the eason he is still trying to find the best combonations. Carroll was pumped their guys were playing to prove something to Durham and his staff. At least Durham has the courage to schedule a Frontier team that went to the Nationals and made it to Semifinal night. The Friz schedule Western great offense but no defense. Should be an easy when for them.

Save your complaining for conference season. Like one poster said earlier many of you are starting to sound like the Egriz bandwagoners.

I have to agree. Mick always uses pre-conference games to figure out the best team balance and sometimes that carries on into early conference games- it's part of being a coach. Mick does sub quite a bit (& it sometimes drives me nuts), but the guy knows basketball and always tries to put the best guys on the floor to deal with what the other team is doing.

Durham bashers will always be around, but I really hope we don't stoop to the level of the griz forum. Hell, let's wait until conference gets going.

"Git-R-Done"

Post by **SonomaCat** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:53 pm

So let me get this straight ... nonconference games only count for everyone else, but not us? Or do we just have as our goal to be the first BSC team to play in the 64-65 play-in game?

To lose to bad teams, or barely beat NAIA teams, at any point in the season, is bad. It deserves some critical review. Getting 8th in Alaska was miserable, and things haven't gotten much better yet.

I do hope they do get much, much better, but for people to express concern based on what we've seen so far seems pretty fair to me (as a poster, exclusive of my role as a moderator).

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:03 pm

No I have to disagree, why would Durham need to find a combination when our starting 5 is returning and our top 8 are still in the program? We should be able to figure out exactly why we cannot come into the season prepared and ready to win right away? I guess I just get frustrated with the lack of preseason success we always have. If we were losing to perenial power conf schools,yea no biggie. But to lose to a dII school and beat an NAIA school on a last second 3, that just doesn't sit very good with me. I am just thinking that maybe some new blood would be good for MSU. Look at what goes on at UM, they fire a head coach after he takes them to the tourney, this is a sign that they demand to be good and if it takes bringing a coach that doesn't do it right away, then they go and find another one in, coach kristoviak. They seem to do just fine and didn't have a ton of turnover just cause kennedy came and was a loser. Then they brought in a coach that seems to me to be pretty good. So yeah if I get mad that we settle for mediocrity year in and year out then so be it. But this program should never not at least make the conference tourney (or 2x in a row) like the 2 previous years before last season. Also, with what a lot of you term as one of the best bobcats to ever play...kinda makes me wonder why the coaching genius that Durham is couldn't even get Jason and his teams into the top 6 in our own conf for his junior and senior years.....[/code]

mslacatfan · Post by **mslacatfan** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:28 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:No I have to disagree, why would Durham need to find a combination when our starting 5 is returning and our top 8 are still in the program? We should be able to figure out exactly why we cannot come into the season prepared and ready to win right away? I guess I just get frustrated with the lack of preseason success we always have. If we were losing to perenial power conf schools,yea no biggie. But to lose to a dII school and beat an NAIA school on a last second 3, that just doesn't sit very good with me. I am just thinking that maybe some new blood would be good for MSU. Look at what goes on at UM, they fire a head coach after he takes them to the tourney, this is a sign that they demand to be good and if it takes bringing a coach that doesn't do it right away, then they go and find another one in, coach kristoviak. They seem to do just fine and didn't have a ton of turnover just cause kennedy came and was a loser. Then they brought in a coach that seems to me to be pretty good. So yeah if I get mad that we settle for mediocrity year in and year out then so be it. But this program should never not at least make the conference tourney (or 2x in a row) like the 2 previous years before last season. Also, with what a lot of you term as one of the best bobcats to ever play...kinda makes me wonder why the coaching genius that Durham is couldn't even get Jason and his teams into the top 6 in our own conf for his junior and senior years.....[/code]

you make some excellent points! couldn't agree with you more, why do we have to settle for mediocrity year after year? I'm usually pretty good at seeing both sides of an issue, but i just cant understand why some people still support Durham? The fact is he does not produce on the basketball court. I want a consistantly great basketball program, a program that should be competing for big sky champs every year, is this to much to ask? HELLLL NO! We're the Bobcats! We should strive for nothing less than excellence! its not gonna happen with durham. okay I'm done.