Choate vs Vigen

[MSU01]

Multiple Big Sky teams seem to have been less than successful recently with their coaching hires. EWU with Aaron Best replacing Beau Baldwin, Weber with Mickey Mental replacing Jay Hill, and Sac State with Andy Thompson replacing Troy Taylor being the biggest examples. Davis, Idaho, ISU, and NAU appear to have done well with their recent hires, it may not be a coincidence that those four went outside the program to get their new coach while the first three promoted from within. Cal Poly seems to be improving slowly under Paul Wulff and UNC would probably suck even if they had Nick Saban as their coach.

Anyway, back to over-analyzing losses from previous seasons since fortunately we don't have any to discuss yet from 2024!

[4KornerKat]

MSU hadn't beaten EWU since 2011 when Vigen arrived and he's 4-0. You have to go back to 1997 before you get four wins over EWU. 2011, 2010, 2001,1997. MSU didn't play EWU in 2019.

From 2003 to 2021, MSU had only beaten EWU twice (2-15; 3-20 from 1998-2021). From 2002-2021, MSU beat UM nine times (9-8). From 1997 to now MSU has beaten EWU eight times, and UM 10 times with a game remaining vs UM.

EWU has been terrible ever since Vigen arrived. Something like 6-27 over the last 3 years? (Too lazy to actually check up)

Without looking it up EWU is 9-22. 9-18 vs FCS. Vigen arrived in 2021. EWU was 10-3 that year. You might want to double check that though.

With Aaron Best as Coach:
2017: 7-4
2018: 12-3 Lost in NCAA Championship
2019: 7-5
2020/1 Spring: 5-2 Lost first round
2021: 10-3 Lost second Round
2022: 3-8 - Only beat Tennessee State, Cal Poly, and Northern Colorado
2023: 4-7 - Only beat SELA, #15 UC Davis, Weber, and Cal Poly.

I remember being at a qb club meeting shortly after Best was hired. Choate kind of laughed and said something to the effect that he's no Beau Baldwin and that he expected EWOO to take a downward turn.

Especially when you consider that Eric Barriere was a true freshman in 2016, and his last year was 2021. QB play and recruiting in general has definitely fallen off for them.

[onceacat]

MSU hadn't beaten EWU since 2011 when Vigen arrived and he's 4-0. You have to go back to 1997 before you get four wins over EWU. 2011, 2010, 2001,1997. MSU didn't play EWU in 2019.

From 2003 to 2021, MSU had only beaten EWU twice (2-15; 3-20 from 1998-2021). From 2002-2021, MSU beat UM nine times (9-8). From 1997 to now MSU has beaten EWU eight times, and UM 10 times with a game remaining vs UM.

EWU has been terrible ever since Vigen arrived. Something like 6-27 over the last 3 years? (Too lazy to actually check up)

Without looking it up EWU is 9-22. 9-18 vs FCS. Vigen arrived in 2021. EWU was 10-3 that year. You might want to double check that though.

I was counting this season as one of the 3, not 2021. EWU still had a top notch offense in 2021.

[kwcat]

Interesting sidenote as I was perusing Bobcat Nation. Watching the highlights of Washington versus southern miss in the Dallas bowl in 2015. The first coach to get soaked at the end of the game with Washington winning was Choate

[TomCat88]

This should start a good fight!

MSU vs UM&EWU

MSU’s two biggest nemeses(?) over the years.
Combined record:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 5-2 (4-0 vs EWU; 1-2 vs UM)

Who’s better?

UPDATE:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 6-2 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU)

I don't hold this against Choate, but Vigen also has two NC appearances and is sticking around for a fifth season.

[Common Cat]

Here’s a hot take…Choate wins the NC two weeks ago, but he wouldn’t have got us there.

[Catsrgrood]

This should start a good fight!

MSU vs UM&EWU

MSU’s two biggest nemeses(?) over the years.
Combined record:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 5-2 (4-0 vs EWU; 1-2 vs UM)

Who’s better?

UPDATE:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 6-2 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU)

I don't hold this against Choate, but Vigen also has two NC appearances and is sticking around for a fifth season.

Technically Choate stuck around for a 5th season too. It just didn’t happen. He didn’t leave until spring of 21’. If covid hadn’t happened he would have coached a 5th season.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Here’s a hot take…Choate wins the NC two weeks ago, but he wouldn’t have got us there.

Because Choate absolutely never lost games he shouldn’t have, and never had games where the team came out flat, right?

I loved Choate, but man, he really is the greatest salesman ever the way some of you talk about him.

[Common Cat]

Here’s a hot take…Choate wins the NC two weeks ago, but he wouldn’t have got us there.

Because Choate absolutely never lost games he shouldn’t have, and never had games where the team came out flat, right?

I loved Choate, but man, he really is the greatest salesman ever the way some of you talk about him.

More like he was good in big games, sometimes lousy in ordinary ones. I prefaced it with “hot take”.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Here’s a hot take…Choate wins the NC two weeks ago, but he wouldn’t have got us there.

Because Choate absolutely never lost games he shouldn’t have, and never had games where the team came out flat, right?

I loved Choate, but man, he really is the greatest salesman ever the way some of you talk about him.

More like he was good in big games, sometimes lousy in ordinary ones. I prefaced it with “hot take”.

Revisionist history.

[FTG_1984]

Here’s a hot take…Choate wins the NC two weeks ago, but he wouldn’t have got us there.

Choate would've done both with Tommy last season. Choate built the foundation of this current program. Tommy, the FCS POY last season & cornerstone of program through Vigen's entire tenure so far, was a Choate recruit. This comparison btw the two coaches is interesting, but only upsets me when I dwell on it. IMO, we'll get to see what kind of head coach Vigen truly is now that Tommy is gone.

[GoldstoneCat]

Here’s a hot take…Choate wins the NC two weeks ago, but he wouldn’t have got us there.

Choate would've done both with Tommy last season. Choate built the foundation of this current program. Tommy, the FCS POY last season & cornerstone of program through Vigen's entire tenure so far, was a Choate recruit. This comparison btw the two coaches is interesting, but only upsets me when I dwell on it. IMO, we'll get to see what kind of head coach Vigen truly is now that Tommy is gone.

Tommy would have played safety under Choate. BB has it pegged. Salesman is the term. He was one goal line stand and one Chris Murray stumble-bum away from being an also-ran as a coach.

[GoldstoneCat]

Here’s a hot take…Choate wins the NC two weeks ago, but he wouldn’t have got us there.

I agree with you that we never get there. We probably lose the game at eastern and the game at Davis, win a first round game and lose in the quarters at a DSU.

[MSU01]

Here’s a hot take…Choate wins the NC two weeks ago, but he wouldn’t have got us there.

Because Choate absolutely never lost games he shouldn’t have, and never had games where the team came out flat, right?

I loved Choate, but man, he really is the greatest salesman ever the way some of you talk about him.

More like he was good in big games, sometimes lousy in ordinary ones. I prefaced it with “hot take”.

Revisionist history.

Choate was great in one particular big game. Weber and EWU fans whose teams never lost to Choate might have a different view!

[SparkCat]

Vigen > Choate. End of discussion. The collective sigh of relief from MSU Admin when Choate left could be heard across the state.

[AFCAT]

Well, I’ve never heard or read a player say anything bad against either coach. This program needed a Choate type coach after Ash and a Vigen type coach after Choate. They both built the program into a power. Choate built the culture and Vigen has expanded on it and taught the team how to win.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Well, I’ve never heard or read a player say anything bad against either coach. This program needed a Choate type coach after Ash and a Vigen type coach after Choate. They both built the program into a power. Choate built the culture and Vigen has expanded on it and taught the team how to win.

Very much agree. Both were/are good coaches and improved MSU significantly.

[TomCat88]

Well, I’ve never heard or read a player say anything bad against either coach. This program needed a Choate type coach after Ash and a Vigen type coach after Choate. They both built the program into a power. Choate built the culture and Vigen has expanded on it and taught the team how to win.

They definitely complement each other that way.

I think the most unique thing about this current team is that they haven't stepped on the field since the SDSU game in 2023 and had me thinking they were going to lose. They have lost four games since then but almost all of them you walked away thinking they just had a bad game, not that the other team was better than them. They've won a couple games where they played poorly in there. Prior to the 2023 game vs SDSU (from 2021 to that game), they had quite a few wins that they could've easily lost (EWU and NAU in 2022; WSU and EWU in 2021).

So, they've gotten over the hump of damn near blowing it (and sometimes getting outplayed) against bad teams and just eking out wins against good teams that they might've otherwise lost to, to just outplaying everyone they face only to lose. The next step in the procession is beating teams they outplay and only losing to good teams that outplay (such as UM did in 2023) them. And, no, I don't put those losses on the coaching staff or players solely. There's been execution errors and coaching errors in all of them.

[4KornerKat]

This should start a good fight!

MSU vs UM&EWU

MSU’s two biggest nemeses(?) over the years.
Combined record:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 5-2 (4-0 vs EWU; 1-2 vs UM)

Who’s better?

UPDATE:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 6-2 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU)

I don't hold this against Choate, but Vigen also has two NC appearances and is sticking around for a fifth season.

You should probably include NDSU in this.
Choate 4-5 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU; 0-2 vs NDSU) (also 0-2 vs SDSU)
Vigen 6-5 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU; 0-3 vs. NDSU) (also 1-2 vs SDSU)

[TomCat88]

This should start a good fight!

MSU vs UM&EWU

MSU’s two biggest nemeses(?) over the years.
Combined record:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 5-2 (4-0 vs EWU; 1-2 vs UM)

Who’s better?

UPDATE:
Choate 4-3 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU)
Vigen 6-2 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU)

I don't hold this against Choate, but Vigen also has two NC appearances and is sticking around for a fifth season.

You should probably include NDSU in this.
Choate 4-5 (4-0 vs UM; 0-3 vs EWU; 0-2 vs NDSU) (also 0-2 vs SDSU)
Vigen 6-5 (2-2 vs UM; 4-0 vs EWU; 0-3 vs. NDSU) (also 1-2 vs SDSU)

Well, haha, I was just trying to start a fight. I think if I was trying to put everyone into a deep depression, I would've started with those.

The positive is I think MSU totally turned the corner vs. EWU (they actually had been more dominant over MSU than UM) and UM over the past 8 years. The next step is to get past SDSU and NDSU, who despite the outcomes of games, I believe MSU has caught. Any time those three play it's a 50-50 proposition. SDSU has NDSU at home this and will probably beat them. MSU has SDSU at home this year and will probably beat them and it's kind of important that they do as they need to end the cycle of losing to NDSU/SDSU (three straight times now) when they should've probably won.

I think the top three teams in the FCS are NDSU, SDSU and MSU. I think there are two teams that are sniffing around being with those three in UCD and USD. I think UM, UIW, and a probably a couple others are a notch below those two. It's a big jump getting into that top three though.