Housewright cited for aggravated DUI

[CodyCat]

Boobie hack's players are doing their own stupid sh*t again, so now UM fans can worry about that.

Details please.

One of their incoming freshmen (jaylen hall) beat up his roommate during fall camp (Ah Yat) in their dorm room. Hall was dismissed from the team and looks like left the university. No comments from the university or the athletic dept. Reported on by the Kaimen.

Yeah, that is definitely categorized correctly, "stupid sh!t". But, thats about it. If Ah Yat thinks Hall beat him up. Wait until Grebe comes off the edge at him.

[kennethnoisewater]

I just think this goes way above Vigen. I've heard people say Choate fired coaches all the time, why won't Vigen? The difference is that Choate fired for performance, which is easier to defend than firing for character, or something not job related. I do think Garza COULD have been fired for performance, but I also think his sub-par performance was defensible due to various players not being around last year (Andersen, Hardy, Benson, Williams, Ortt, etc).

Vigen probably has firing authority for performance and maybe for some philosophical differences related to football. Vigen likely does not have firing authority for personal matters, and I think a DUI that's under investigation TECHNICALLY could classify as a personal matter. We're innocent until proven guilty, and while I believe Garza is guilty as hell, we technically don't know that he is. I've said on here that I'd be upset if he was retained, and I still feel the same way. He was hammered and flying down Main Street on one of the busiest nights of the year in the whole state. I don't see how he gets out of that conviction. That's indefensible. I won't ever defend Garza for what happened that night, but for now I will defend MSU and Vigen, because I think their hands are tied.

Moving forward, MSU (and maybe the MUS) might need to consider some provisions in coaches' contracts to fire or suspend without pay for something nebulous like "conduct unbecoming of a coach" or "conduct detrimental to the team and/or University". Even an accusation could possibly be grounds for termination.

The Housewright/Mix situation is different, IMO. It seems to me that Housewright could point to the fact that there's an expectation for him to attend these social events in an official capacity, and that there's an unspoken expectation for him to imbibe with donors and supporters. MSU didn't put a plan in place for him to travel safely from that function, and it seems to me he could put this back on the University. I don't like it, but it seems like an angle he could use. In that case, they have to handle this lightly too.

MSU is a university that has already lost a high-profile wrongful termination lawsuit, and in this very program. We may want a pound of flesh, but firing people ain't what it used to be!

[coloradocat]

I just think this goes way above Vigen. I've heard people say Choate fired coaches all the time, why won't Vigen? The difference is that Choate fired for performance, which is easier to defend than firing for character, or something not job related. I do think Garza COULD have been fired for performance, but I also think his sub-par performance was defensible due to various players not being around last year (Andersen, Hardy, Benson, Williams, Ortt, etc).

Vigen probably has firing authority for performance and maybe for some philosophical differences related to football. Vigen likely does not have firing authority for personal matters, and I think a DUI that's under investigation TECHNICALLY could classify as a personal matter. We're innocent until proven guilty, and while I believe Garza is guilty as hell, we technically don't know that he is. I've said on here that I'd be upset if he was retained, and I still feel the same way. He was hammered and flying down Main Street on one of the busiest nights of the year in the whole state. I don't see how he gets out of that conviction. That's indefensible. I won't ever defend Garza for what happened that night, but for now I will defend MSU and Vigen, because I think their hands are tied.

Moving forward, MSU (and maybe the MUS) might need to consider some provisions in coaches' contracts to fire or suspend without pay for something nebulous like "conduct unbecoming of a coach" or "conduct detrimental to the team and/or University". Even an accusation could possibly be grounds for termination.

The Housewright/Mix situation is different, IMO. It seems to me that Housewright could point to the fact that there's an expectation for him to attend these social events in an official capacity, and that there's an unspoken expectation for him to imbibe with donors and supporters. MSU didn't put a plan in place for him to travel safely from that function, and it seems to me he could put this back on the University. I don't like it, but it seems like an angle he could use. In that case, they have to handle this lightly too.

MSU is a university that has already lost a high-profile wrongful termination lawsuit, and in this very program. We may want a pound of flesh, but firing people ain't what it used to be!

From the June article on the contract extenstions/renewals:

The coordinators, like Vigen, “are subject to all institutional policies and procedures governing the conduct of employees” and “may be terminated for cause at any time,” their LOAs state. DUI or other specific violations of the law are not mentioned in either LOA.

They may need to spell out some specifics a little more clearly in the contracts but maybe the contracts are already fine. Hard to say without actually seeing them. We're all in this blind because the school is waiting on the legal side before saying or doing anything conclusive.

I don't want anyone fired for accusations/arrests/charges. Not the way the legal system works in this country where false arrests and overcharging regularly occur without repercussions. As flawed as the system is, I'd rather have it play out than have an employer jump to conclusions just because the optics are bad. If an administrator or coach can't weather the publicity storm and instead bows to the loudest voices, they shouldn't be in their job.

[TomCat88]

Not sure if this is worth noting but the players seem to like Garza based on the interviews (the one with Askelson in particular from yesterday). Couple that with the fact that Cruzado/Costello are player/student-first administrators might play into things.

[catatac]

Not sure if this is worth noting but the players seem to like Garza based on the interviews (the one with Askelson in particular from yesterday). Couple that with the fact that Cruzado/Costello are player/student-first administrators might play into things.

Yep. Who knows what discussions they all had behind closed doors. With Garza's situation specifically, maybe they are treating this as an absolute last change, you have a disease and we are going to keep you here and support you while you treat it, type of deal. Just a total guess on my part.

[BobcatDel]

[quote=BobcatDel post_id=827676

For the rest of the populace a DUI or drug arrest resulted in being placed in a drug or alcohol program and being subjected to random testing more frequently. You were not terminated on a first offense. ….. You didn’t get a second chance.

Curious on these portions of your comment. You explained the policy, how different depending on position and how goal changed to help the person but then one part said you were not terminated and ended with you didn't get a second chance.
[/quote]

Guess what I was saying is that you were not terminated on the first offense. After going through the program and being subject to additional testing for a period of time (interesting how testing seemed to increase on Mondays and after holidays)….I meant that if you got a second DUI or were found to be impaired with drugs or had illegal drugs in your system a second time you were terminated. In other words, the company was saying “we gave you a chance to get yourself clean and even provided (and paid) for help…..it was up to you to get and keep yourself clean”.

[tetoncat]

[quote=BobcatDel post_id=827676

For the rest of the populace a DUI or drug arrest resulted in being placed in a drug or alcohol program and being subjected to random testing more frequently. You were not terminated on a first offense. ….. You didn’t get a second chance.

Curious on these portions of your comment. You explained the policy, how different depending on position and how goal changed to help the person but then one part said you were not terminated and ended with you didn't get a second chance.

Guess what I was saying is that you were not terminated on the first offense. After going through the program and being subject to additional testing for a period of time (interesting how testing seemed to increase on Mondays and after holidays)….I meant that if you got a second DUI or were found to be impaired with drugs or had illegal drugs in your system a second time you were terminated. In other words, the company was saying “we gave you a chance to get yourself clean and even provided (and paid) for help…..it was up to you to get and keep yourself clean”.
[/quote]

Thanks for clarification

[91catAlum]

Not sure if this is worth noting but the players seem to like Garza based on the interviews (the one with Askelson in particular from yesterday). Couple that with the fact that Cruzado/Costello are player/student-first administrators might play into things.

That's a good point in WMG's favor, but this would be his 2nd DUI in 4 years (and 3rd lifetime) as you know... it was a concern to some when he was initially hired here (enough so that Vigen addressed it to the press when he announced WMG was the new DC) and he didn't make it 1 year before getting charged with another one. There must have been some sort of stipulation when he was hired that he keep his nose clean, and if found guilty here, he failed at that. If he's found guilty, MSU needs to move on from him as a coach.

I feel for the guy, but at what point is enough, enough? Hypothetical: say he is found guilty and MSU keeps him as DC, then we win the natty this year and he gets another DUI a week later. Would that be enough to let him go? why or why not? Say we kept him and then he then got another DUI in 2025, would that be enough?
Not trying to be a jerk here, honest question: where do you draw the line if not now (assuming he's found guilty)? 1 more? 2 more?

[TomCat88]

Not sure if this is worth noting but the players seem to like Garza based on the interviews (the one with Askelson in particular from yesterday). Couple that with the fact that Cruzado/Costello are player/student-first administrators might play into things.

That's a good point in WMG's favor, but this would be his 2nd DUI in 4 years (and 3rd lifetime) as you know... it was a concern to some when he was initially hired here (enough so that Vigen addressed it to the press when he announced WMG was the new DC) and he didn't make it 1 year before getting charged with another one. There must have been some sort of stipulation when he was hired that he keep his nose clean, and if found guilty here, he failed at that. If he's found guilty, MSU needs to move on from him as a coach.

I feel for the guy, but at what point is enough, enough? Hypothetical: say he is found guilty and MSU keeps him as DC, then we win the natty this year and he gets another DUI a week later. Would that be enough to let him go? why or why not? Say we kept him and then he then got another DUI in 2025, would that be enough?
Not trying to be a jerk here, honest question: where do you draw the line if not now (assuming he's found guilty)? 1 more? 2 more?

I haven’t been following his case very closely. So I don’t have a lot of background on it to throw out any strong opinions. Has he settled out of court? I ask because I don’t see where he was found guilty and it’s been around nine months since he was arrested.

[bobcatbob]

Not sure if this is worth noting but the players seem to like Garza based on the interviews (the one with Askelson in particular from yesterday). Couple that with the fact that Cruzado/Costello are player/student-first administrators might play into things.

That's a good point in WMG's favor, but this would be his 2nd DUI in 4 years (and 3rd lifetime) as you know... it was a concern to some when he was initially hired here (enough so that Vigen addressed it to the press when he announced WMG was the new DC) and he didn't make it 1 year before getting charged with another one. There must have been some sort of stipulation when he was hired that he keep his nose clean, and if found guilty here, he failed at that. If he's found guilty, MSU needs to move on from him as a coach.

I feel for the guy, but at what point is enough, enough? Hypothetical: say he is found guilty and MSU keeps him as DC, then we win the natty this year and he gets another DUI a week later. Would that be enough to let him go? why or why not? Say we kept him and then he then got another DUI in 2025, would that be enough?
Not trying to be a jerk here, honest question: where do you draw the line if not now (assuming he's found guilty)? 1 more? 2 more?

I haven’t been following his case very closely. So I don’t have a lot of background on it to throw out any strong opinions. Has he settled out of court? I ask because I don’t see where he was found guilty and it’s been around nine months since he was arrested.

It has been delayed and he hasn't gone to trial yet. I agree with 91catAlum on this if found guilty.

[blueandgoldblitz]

Does anyone know the latest trial dates for these two? Best I can find is WMG is set for trial in "October" and I haven't seen anything on Housewright. Just wondering when we may know the outcomes of these things....Also, what are the odds Housewright and Mix are suspended for the first game of the season? Precedent was set with Garza so I'm thinking it'll probably happen but be a surprise before Gold Rush.

[PHAT CAT]

ENOUGH! You'll know, when it's done. Man I hate some of the people who post on this site. Get a LIFE! Pack of B-I-T-C-H-E-S!

[CodyCat]

ENOUGH! You'll know, when it's done. Man I hate some of the people who post on this site. Get a LIFE! Pack of B-I-T-C-H-E-S!

What a stupid post.

[BleedingBLue]

ENOUGH! You'll know, when it's done. Man I hate some of the people who post on this site. Get a LIFE! Pack of B-I-T-C-H-E-S!

What a stupid post.

You don't think this post will get people to stop? Do you think he hates me?

[PHAT CAT]

ENOUGH! You'll know, when it's done. Man I hate some of the people who post on this site. Get a LIFE! Pack of B-I-T-C-H-E-S!

What a stupid post.

Get a life. Get a F'n life. You don't need to know, about court times or dates. Go get some mini pads and Midol.

[Justwinbaby]

ENOUGH! You'll know, when it's done. Man I hate some of the people who post on this site. Get a LIFE! Pack of B-I-T-C-H-E-S!

What a stupid post.

Get a life. Get a F'n life. You don't need to know, about court times or dates. Go get some mini pads and Midol.

Colter - is that you? Mad bro?

[kaner77]

I want to how many of you that on your wife's tell them

[Dbrewmsu]

I want to how many of you that on your wife's tell them

You posted a tough riddle but I think I solved it. If you keep the first two words and then alternate keeping two and dropping two words you get "I want many of your wife's"

[utucats]

I just think this goes way above Vigen. I've heard people say Choate fired coaches all the time, why won't Vigen? The difference is that Choate fired for performance, which is easier to defend than firing for character, or something not job related. I do think Garza COULD have been fired for performance, but I also think his sub-par performance was defensible due to various players not being around last year (Andersen, Hardy, Benson, Williams, Ortt, etc).

Vigen probably has firing authority for performance and maybe for some philosophical differences related to football. Vigen likely does not have firing authority for personal matters, and I think a DUI that's under investigation TECHNICALLY could classify as a personal matter. We're innocent until proven guilty, and while I believe Garza is guilty as hell, we technically don't know that he is. I've said on here that I'd be upset if he was retained, and I still feel the same way. He was hammered and flying down Main Street on one of the busiest nights of the year in the whole state. I don't see how he gets out of that conviction. That's indefensible. I won't ever defend Garza for what happened that night, but for now I will defend MSU and Vigen, because I think their hands are tied.

Moving forward, MSU (and maybe the MUS) might need to consider some provisions in coaches' contracts to fire or suspend without pay for something nebulous like "conduct unbecoming of a coach" or "conduct detrimental to the team and/or University". Even an accusation could possibly be grounds for termination.

The Housewright/Mix situation is different, IMO. It seems to me that Housewright could point to the fact that there's an expectation for him to attend these social events in an official capacity, and that there's an unspoken expectation for him to imbibe with donors and supporters. MSU didn't put a plan in place for him to travel safely from that function, and it seems to me he could put this back on the University. I don't like it, but it seems like an angle he could use. In that case, they have to handle this lightly too.

MSU is a university that has already lost a high-profile wrongful termination lawsuit, and in this very program. We may want a pound of flesh, but firing people ain't what it used to be!

I don’t really care to enter into this discussion but one thing you said I have to comment on, “MSU didn’t put a plan in place for him to travel safely from that function…”

Bozeman might be the easiest town in the state to get an Uber. I wonder if we would make the same excuse for a player? Well, we didn’t find him a ride home from the party so it must be our fault that he drove intoxicated.

I really don’t have an opinion when it comes to the 2nd chance vs pound of flesh argument. I’m torn both directions but there should be absolutely zero excuses for these two.

[kennethnoisewater]

I just think this goes way above Vigen. I've heard people say Choate fired coaches all the time, why won't Vigen? The difference is that Choate fired for performance, which is easier to defend than firing for character, or something not job related. I do think Garza COULD have been fired for performance, but I also think his sub-par performance was defensible due to various players not being around last year (Andersen, Hardy, Benson, Williams, Ortt, etc).

Vigen probably has firing authority for performance and maybe for some philosophical differences related to football. Vigen likely does not have firing authority for personal matters, and I think a DUI that's under investigation TECHNICALLY could classify as a personal matter. We're innocent until proven guilty, and while I believe Garza is guilty as hell, we technically don't know that he is. I've said on here that I'd be upset if he was retained, and I still feel the same way. He was hammered and flying down Main Street on one of the busiest nights of the year in the whole state. I don't see how he gets out of that conviction. That's indefensible. I won't ever defend Garza for what happened that night, but for now I will defend MSU and Vigen, because I think their hands are tied.

Moving forward, MSU (and maybe the MUS) might need to consider some provisions in coaches' contracts to fire or suspend without pay for something nebulous like "conduct unbecoming of a coach" or "conduct detrimental to the team and/or University". Even an accusation could possibly be grounds for termination.

The Housewright/Mix situation is different, IMO. It seems to me that Housewright could point to the fact that there's an expectation for him to attend these social events in an official capacity, and that there's an unspoken expectation for him to imbibe with donors and supporters. MSU didn't put a plan in place for him to travel safely from that function, and it seems to me he could put this back on the University. I don't like it, but it seems like an angle he could use. In that case, they have to handle this lightly too.

MSU is a university that has already lost a high-profile wrongful termination lawsuit, and in this very program. We may want a pound of flesh, but firing people ain't what it used to be!

I don’t really care to enter into this discussion but one thing you said I have to comment on, “MSU didn’t put a plan in place for him to travel safely from that function…”

Bozeman might be the easiest town in the state to get an Uber. I wonder if we would make the same excuse for a player? Well, we didn’t find him a ride home from the party so it must be our fault that he drove intoxicated.

I really don’t have an opinion when it comes to the 2nd chance vs pound of flesh argument. I’m torn both directions but there should be absolutely zero excuses for these two.

I'm a big personal responsibility guy. I don't think House has any excuse, but it does seem like something to me that he could argue. I think it's different from a player at a party. It's not part of a player's contract to be at parties. I don't think it's any excuse for drinking and driving, but I do think it ought to be something MSU looks at. If any organization has an expectation that its employees attend and participate in social functions where alcohol is present, it would be nice if they had some guard rails in place. If I was an attorney, I'd argue that. I don't like it, but I think it's an argument they could make.

As for second chances, I'm a big second chance guy. I tend to be a little more willing to forgive Housewright for his DUI, though I wouldn't mind if MSU had and used a zero tolerance policy for that. In general though, there better be something in place contractually that says a DUI charge is grounds for termination if we want Garza gone at this point. And I wish there had been something in his contract that said even a charge is instant termination. He has already used his second chance...as well as his third. He should be done, in my book.