Moving up

[Long Time Cat]

This article mentions North Dakota State, and South Dakota State as preferred expansion candidates for the Mountain west/Pac, 12 merger. No mention of the Montana schools. One more interesting thing is they mention the merger of the conferences, but keeping two separate conferences and using relegation.
https://share.newsbreak.com/4z0upo78

[CelticCat]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

[kennethnoisewater]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

Journalism is fascinating these days. We still see articles like this as real news. Some guy at Yahoo hears that there has been a conversation about relegation, but doesn't mention how many other solutions were discussed. Then, some other guy writes an article about an article. This, apparently, is the danger of having a meeting wherein someone says "any idea is a good one, just throw things out there". The article says it's being discussed, but the only quotes from a "conference administrator" are comments about why this wouldn't work. No comments about why it's a good idea from anyone at a university. I'll hold off on thinking this is newsworthy.

[MSU01]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

It's an interesting idea but in reality there's absolutely no chance that a promotion/relegation system would ever happen in college sports. The idea of combining WSU, OSU, the existing MWC, and two other schools into two 8 or 10-team conferences (Pac 8 and Mountain 8?) seems more realistic, perhaps with agreements like the ACC/Big 10 challenge in basketball where schools would play scheduled non-conference games against teams from the other conference each year.

[kennethnoisewater]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

It's an interesting idea but in reality there's absolutely no chance that a promotion/relegation system would ever happen in college sports. The idea of combining WSU, OSU, the existing MWC, and two other schools into two 8 or 10-team conferences (Pac 8 and Mountain 8?) seems more realistic, perhaps with agreements like the ACC/Big 10 challenge in basketball where schools would play scheduled non-conference games against teams from the other conference each year.

And would promotion/relegation be based on success in all sports? It would have to be, right? If not, you have a huge league for everything but football and would never be able to play everybody in volleyball, basketball, etc. If it is, what would happen if you have a situation like NAU? They are so good in Indoor/Outdoor track and XC that they'd be in the upper league with a horrible football team. I realize they might not be part of the discussion, but that's a possibility. Or am I missing something?

[MSU01]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

It's an interesting idea but in reality there's absolutely no chance that a promotion/relegation system would ever happen in college sports. The idea of combining WSU, OSU, the existing MWC, and two other schools into two 8 or 10-team conferences (Pac 8 and Mountain 8?) seems more realistic, perhaps with agreements like the ACC/Big 10 challenge in basketball where schools would play scheduled non-conference games against teams from the other conference each year.

And would promotion/relegation be based on success in all sports? It would have to be, right? If not, you have a huge league for everything but football and would never be able to play everybody in volleyball, basketball, etc. If it is, what would happen if you have a situation like NAU? They are so good in Indoor/Outdoor track and XC that they'd be in the upper league with a horrible football team. I realize they might not be part of the discussion, but that's a possibility. Or am I missing something?

You're exactly right, but it doesn't seem as though the media members who have brought this idea up have considered sports other than football. Doesn't really make sense to have your football, women's basketball, and track teams in the upper conference while your men's basketball, volleyball, and tennis teams are in the lower one.

[GoodTimesAllTheTime]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

It's an interesting idea but in reality there's absolutely no chance that a promotion/relegation system would ever happen in college sports. The idea of combining WSU, OSU, the existing MWC, and two other schools into two 8 or 10-team conferences (Pac 8 and Mountain 8?) seems more realistic, perhaps with agreements like the ACC/Big 10 challenge in basketball where schools would play scheduled non-conference games against teams from the other conference each year.

And would promotion/relegation be based on success in all sports? It would have to be, right? If not, you have a huge league for everything but football and would never be able to play everybody in volleyball, basketball, etc. If it is, what would happen if you have a situation like NAU? They are so good in Indoor/Outdoor track and XC that they'd be in the upper league with a horrible football team. I realize they might not be part of the discussion, but that's a possibility. Or am I missing something?

You're exactly right, but it doesn't seem as though the media members who have brought this idea up have considered sports other than football. Doesn't really make sense to have your football, women's basketball, and track teams in the upper conference while your men's basketball, volleyball, and tennis teams are in the lower one.

I agree that a lot of the discussions don’t touch on the other sports, but it also seems clear that football is headed toward being its own thing and having football-only conferences. So that’s the “solution” proposed by all the realignment thinkers

[onceacat]

This article mentions North Dakota State, and South Dakota State as preferred expansion candidates for the Mountain west/Pac, 12 merger. No mention of the Montana schools. One more interesting thing is they mention the merger of the conferences, but keeping two separate conferences and using relegation.
https://share.newsbreak.com/4z0upo78

8 teams isn really enough. Add the 2 Montanas & you get 9 teams which is perfect...add Idaho & Sac & Davis & there's one conference of 10 & 11 plus a big media market to make the TV contract more worthwhile & keep all the good BSC teams together (except EWU & Weber...which, lets face it, dont belong with any of the other schools in the Pac11/MVC academically, culturally, historically, whatever)

has good potential.

[onceacat]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

Revenue sharing. if you cant figure this out, you need to be working in fast food, not administering $20m+ athlete department budgets.

[onceacat]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

It's an interesting idea but in reality there's absolutely no chance that a promotion/relegation system would ever happen in college sports. The idea of combining WSU, OSU, the existing MWC, and two other schools into two 8 or 10-team conferences (Pac 8 and Mountain 8?) seems more realistic, perhaps with agreements like the ACC/Big 10 challenge in basketball where schools would play scheduled non-conference games against teams from the other conference each year.

And would promotion/relegation be based on success in all sports? It would have to be, right? If not, you have a huge league for everything but football and would never be able to play everybody in volleyball, basketball, etc. If it is, what would happen if you have a situation like NAU? They are so good in Indoor/Outdoor track and XC that they'd be in the upper league with a horrible football team. I realize they might not be part of the discussion, but that's a possibility. Or am I missing something?

You're exactly right, but it doesn't seem as though the media members who have brought this idea up have considered sports other than football. Doesn't really make sense to have your football, women's basketball, and track teams in the upper conference while your men's basketball, volleyball, and tennis teams are in the lower one.

I agree that a lot of the discussions don’t touch on the other sports, but it also seems clear that football is headed toward being its own thing and having football-only conferences. So that’s the “solution” proposed by all the realignment thinkers

This ship sailed years ago. Football (and maybe basketball) need to operate in different conferences than the other sports. And schools split conferences all the time...the Missouri Vally only exists as a football conference...(there is another Missouri Valley in non-football, but no Dakota schools...its a really weird group)

Anyway, this is already the status quo and has been for a decade plus. It was solved a long time ago.

[onceacat]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

It's an interesting idea but in reality there's absolutely no chance that a promotion/relegation system would ever happen in college sports. The idea of combining WSU, OSU, the existing MWC, and two other schools into two 8 or 10-team conferences (Pac 8 and Mountain 8?) seems more realistic, perhaps with agreements like the ACC/Big 10 challenge in basketball where schools would play scheduled non-conference games against teams from the other conference each year.

And would promotion/relegation be based on success in all sports? It would have to be, right? If not, you have a huge league for everything but football and would never be able to play everybody in volleyball, basketball, etc. If it is, what would happen if you have a situation like NAU? They are so good in Indoor/Outdoor track and XC that they'd be in the upper league with a horrible football team. I realize they might not be part of the discussion, but that's a possibility. Or am I missing something?

You are missing something. Schools play in different conferences for different sports all the time. Look at Notre Dame or BYU. Or the fat that the Missouri Valley Football Conference is completely different than the Missouri Valley Conference. Lots of D1 schools that dont even have football. The University of Utah doesnt have mens cross country.

Cal Poly & Davis only play in the Big Sky for football & are in different conferences for everything else. Bingham University SUNY & U of Hartford played in the Big Sky for a decade in golf.

Schools change conferences for different sports all the time.

Total non issue.

[Long Time Cat]

Logistics aside. For football the idea of joining the MWC with a chance of winning our way into the PAC8,9,10 sounds awesome to me. I'm guessing lots of good TV coverage maybe even playoff games to see who moves up. And if the DSU's move we have great new rivalries to go with the old rivalries against Boise State, Nevada, et al. Also if the DSU's are gone from FCS it really will be watered down.

Added bonus if the new conference doesn't want the griz they can be comforted by the fact that they could compete for the D2 national championship right away! At least if they can play the championship game at home.

[BelgradeBobcat]

I know from following relegation battles in the English Premier League that games featuring the worst teams in the league at the end of the season are major high drama. If your team is on the cusp of relegation the pressure is intense and the stadium is full. I think it's an intriguing idea.

[Montanabob]

oregon state and washington state have already been relegated......

[Bobcat Sig]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

It's an interesting problem, to be sure.

My take would be to budget as if you are relegated every year. That way, when you aren't playing for the big share of the revenue, you're not in a budget shortfall. Then, the years you do manage to make it back up; it's a gravy train with biscuit wheels. And if done properly, most teams aren't out of contention for very long so they aren't experiencing long droughts of the revenue share.

[allcat]

Relegation for an athletic program that is directly tied to state funds and a university is such a terrible idea. I like the idea of relegation but not in a collegiate setting. How are you supposed to budget for an entire athletic department if your budget hinges solely on which "division" or whatever your football team is in? That impacts everybody.

It's an interesting problem, to be sure.

My take would be to budget as if you are relegated every year. That way, when you aren't playing for the big share of the revenue, you're not in a budget shortfall. Then, the years you do manage to make it back up; it's a gravy train with biscuit wheels. And if done properly, most teams aren't out of contention for very long so they aren't experiencing long droughts of the revenue share.

Quite a conundrum. Sit on your heals and not spend the money to be good or spend the money and roll the dice on it. Tough for a business, tougher for a school.

[Norsky19]

I've been told TV markets drive the train.....can't be good for Montana if you are an advocate of moving up.

[BleedingBLue]

Here's another really good article on how relegation could work in college football, along with some info about an actual presentation given to MWC and Pac 2 leaders.

For those who are open to moving up if we get a MWC invite, if the invite came for us to be in the 3rd tier of the conference (a tier below the DSUs) would you still be in favor of moving up? I haven't been in favor of it at all, and most definitely wouldn't in this case.

Tying an FCS conference to a G5 conference would make more sense in my opinion. The BSC champ moves into MWC tier 2, and the BSC 2nd place finisher plays the MWC tier 2 7th place finisher to see if one moves up and another down, or vice versa. The FCS playoffs are still played, but the promotion games get played Thanksgiving weekend, and the playoffs start a week later.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... -look-like

[kaner77]

Why in the fxxx would you play a game with no meaning a week before playoffs

[BleedingBLue]

Why in the fxxx would you play a game with no meaning a week before playoffs

Did you miss the point of the relegation/promotion games? How is there no meaning?