O-Line

[BelligerentBobcat]

Watching Vigens presser today there seems to be some consternation about which line up is the one he feels most comfortable with. ewu is going to come to town and whip our assets if they don’t stockpile turds in a rapid hurry.

Lots of head scratching as a fan.

The same team that played SDSU even is going to get whipped by Eastern?

[94VegasCat]

Watching Vigens presser today there seems to be some consternation about which line up is the one he feels most comfortable with. ewu is going to come to town and whip our assets if they don’t stockpile turds in a rapid hurry.

Lots of head scratching as a fan.

The same team that played SDSU even is going to get whipped by Eastern?

I think last weeks game left a strange feeling with most. There were things to cleanup and I thought if there was progress from game three to four, it was incremental.

[BornBobcat2000]

Last year linebackers had to worry about Tommy pulling the ball and running. This year they can stay put in their gaps. Result: not as many holes up the middle. Jones has done some damage outside though.

Simple assessment is we were noticeably better running the ball on Saturday. Wasn't even close in my opinion after watching the tape. Burke made a noticeable difference and getting us different looks from different backs also made an impact. We used three Oline arrangements on Saturday:

1st was Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson
2nd was Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Carr, Fleischmann
3rd was Jefferson, Mastel, Reed, Carr, Flesichmann

We only got two possessions of each and Vigen was visibly upset by that in the post-game presser as they really wanted extended tape on these groups. I think our strongest RUNNING unit is the third group. I think our best PASSING unit is the 1st. I don't like the 2nd because, in my opinion, Jefferson is too talented in both run and pass that he needs to be on the field. Let's just put it this way, I saw Carr/Fleischmann drive block together on the right side for the first time and it looked wonderful to these eyes. I just think we need Titan to be at right tackle and Carr is our best run blocker left at guard in that scenario so then your deciding between the value of Zimmer or Jefferson at LT. Zimmer is getting better every game and is so impressive as a pass-blocker but Jefferson is better at both overall at this point in the season. My vote is we move forward with #3 and we take a deeper run-first identity and let Lamson cook in the play-action game as he's comfortable on the intermediate game. He took two deep shots in the deep game on Saturday and he frankly should of just ate those instead of throwing 50/50 balls to our two shortest receivers despite their playmaking ability. Its a process with Lamson and he needs to continue to improve in his decision making. My feeling is Sterbick is trying to make it relatively easy in his passing game. That has kind of always been his MO as a playcaller but his QB is trying to do too much right now when he doesn't have to.

Did Reed play center all game even with Mastel back?

[VimSince03]

Last year linebackers had to worry about Tommy pulling the ball and running. This year they can stay put in their gaps. Result: not as many holes up the middle. Jones has done some damage outside though.

Simple assessment is we were noticeably better running the ball on Saturday. Wasn't even close in my opinion after watching the tape. Burke made a noticeable difference and getting us different looks from different backs also made an impact. We used three Oline arrangements on Saturday:

1st was Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson
2nd was Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Carr, Fleischmann
3rd was Jefferson, Mastel, Reed, Carr, Flesichmann

We only got two possessions of each and Vigen was visibly upset by that in the post-game presser as they really wanted extended tape on these groups. I think our strongest RUNNING unit is the third group. I think our best PASSING unit is the 1st. I don't like the 2nd because, in my opinion, Jefferson is too talented in both run and pass that he needs to be on the field. Let's just put it this way, I saw Carr/Fleischmann drive block together on the right side for the first time and it looked wonderful to these eyes. I just think we need Titan to be at right tackle and Carr is our best run blocker left at guard in that scenario so then your deciding between the value of Zimmer or Jefferson at LT. Zimmer is getting better every game and is so impressive as a pass-blocker but Jefferson is better at both overall at this point in the season. My vote is we move forward with #3 and we take a deeper run-first identity and let Lamson cook in the play-action game as he's comfortable on the intermediate game. He took two deep shots in the deep game on Saturday and he frankly should of just ate those instead of throwing 50/50 balls to our two shortest receivers despite their playmaking ability. Its a process with Lamson and he needs to continue to improve in his decision making. My feeling is Sterbick is trying to make it relatively easy in his passing game. That has kind of always been his MO as a playcaller but his QB is trying to do too much right now when he doesn't have to.

Did Reed play center all game even with Mastel back?

Yes. Reed has played well at center. No reason to rock the boat with Burke comfortable at LG.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Watching Vigens presser today there seems to be some consternation about which line up is the one he feels most comfortable with. ewu is going to come to town and whip our assets if they don’t stockpile turds in a rapid hurry.

Lots of head scratching as a fan.

The same team that played SDSU even is going to get whipped by Eastern?

I think last weeks game left a strange feeling with most. There were things to cleanup and I thought if there was progress from game three to four, it was incremental.

I personally wouldn’t take too much from that game.

We’re still a good team. Not as good as last year, yet, but a good team. Losing to Eastern would be a major collapse that just isn’t likely.

[Slackjaw]

Last year linebackers had to worry about Tommy pulling the ball and running. This year they can stay put in their gaps. Result: not as many holes up the middle. Jones has done some damage outside though.

Simple assessment is we were noticeably better running the ball on Saturday. Wasn't even close in my opinion after watching the tape. Burke made a noticeable difference and getting us different looks from different backs also made an impact. We used three Oline arrangements on Saturday:

1st was Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson
2nd was Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Carr, Fleischmann
3rd was Jefferson, Mastel, Reed, Carr, Flesichmann

We only got two possessions of each and Vigen was visibly upset by that in the post-game presser as they really wanted extended tape on these groups. I think our strongest RUNNING unit is the third group. I think our best PASSING unit is the 1st. I don't like the 2nd because, in my opinion, Jefferson is too talented in both run and pass that he needs to be on the field. Let's just put it this way, I saw Carr/Fleischmann drive block together on the right side for the first time and it looked wonderful to these eyes. I just think we need Titan to be at right tackle and Carr is our best run blocker left at guard in that scenario so then your deciding between the value of Zimmer or Jefferson at LT. Zimmer is getting better every game and is so impressive as a pass-blocker but Jefferson is better at both overall at this point in the season. My vote is we move forward with #3 and we take a deeper run-first identity and let Lamson cook in the play-action game as he's comfortable on the intermediate game. He took two deep shots in the deep game on Saturday and he frankly should of just ate those instead of throwing 50/50 balls to our two shortest receivers despite their playmaking ability. Its a process with Lamson and he needs to continue to improve in his decision making. My feeling is Sterbick is trying to make it relatively easy in his passing game. That has kind of always been his MO as a playcaller but his QB is trying to do too much right now when he doesn't have to.

I agree with you on using the 3rd unit listed above, as it sets us up for the run game the best. My only concern is that while Carr seems to have good push when engaged, his foot speed gets him beat against quicker interior linemen. That said, I'm always going to be a run-first guy, and I believe Zimmer is just too light in the lower half right now. He's going to be a really good one, but he just needs more time.

On to Lamson — put simply, no defense is afraid of him at the moment, not in the run game or the pass game.

In the run game: There's nothing stopping LBs from flowing, and there's very little to no backside hesitation. This is creating problems for our RBs. Defenses are okay with him pulling it and getting his five yards and the occasional 20.

In the pass game: Sterbick is feeling boxed in because Lamson won't stretch the field unless he calls plays like the one where the interception occurred (Yankee concept). Lamson seems to play extremely conservatively — he'll throw the under mesh/shallow routes all day, or take off running, but he won't push the ball downfield. This forces the coordinator to call two-receiver/max-protect concepts in an attempt to stretch the defense. Unfortunately, the play was covered well and the ball shouldn't have been thrown (easy read).

Part of me wonders how much of this passing game is coordinator vs. player. We just don't have the seam game that we had last year. Admittedly, I still need to go to a game in person to see if those routes are being called and just not executed.

With a QB who's not the same threat we're used to in the run game, and a passing game focused only on the short/intermediate, the run game will continue to struggle. The field is just too condensed. It needs to be stretched one way or the other — horizontally or vertically.

Things I would like to see:
1) Chance Wilson (easiest to implement, probably the hardest for the coaching staff to pull the trigger on)

2) More wide-split zone to take care of the backside and hope ILBs flow too hard (we do some IZ split, but I’m not sure I’ve seen WZ split)

3) More play-action off of #2 — the potential of this also helps hold backside flow

4) Use more jet motions/jet sweeps to cause hesitation (think Rovig days with Miller as coordinator)

When we got good chunks and looks against South Dakota State, it was literally what you described here only it was more IZ. When we went WZ, too many unblocked players but our run game blocking was such a mess in that one between OL and TEs, wouldn't mind going back to it more. But yes absolutely need to pound the zone concepts and then pop PA off of it. For one it plays into the strengths of our athletic TEs and our receivers. Just feels like we are running too many concepts right now and, like I said after SDSU, just need to build off of what we are good at. I saw some of that in the first half against Mercyhurst but then the weirdness of the 2nd half happened after that pick.

I disagree on Chance...for now. They want to be balanced and throw the ball efficiently but if the season gets pushed to the brink...Vigen has shown he isn't afraid to pull the trigger on a refresh as we saw in 2021.

I do agree with you on Jet Sweeps but we already use motion to lighten the box and defenses just aren't biting.

Simply put, the goods are there we just need to go prove it. Sterbick and Lamson will need to figure it out sooner than later or else its time to throw a stick of dynamite on it.

To be clear, I’m not necessarily pushing for a switch to Chance at quarterback right now. It’s more that I’d "like to see" what the offense — especially the run game — would look like with him back there. That’s mainly because I believe the run game would improve significantly or at least look more like what we're used to with him at QB.

And again, for me, the run game is always more important than the passing game, especially since we play in Montana, well into December.

Obviously, coaches don't have the luxury of making that big of a decision based on curiosity. As a fan, I do. lol

[wbtfg]

Last year linebackers had to worry about Tommy pulling the ball and running. This year they can stay put in their gaps. Result: not as many holes up the middle. Jones has done some damage outside though.

Simple assessment is we were noticeably better running the ball on Saturday. Wasn't even close in my opinion after watching the tape. Burke made a noticeable difference and getting us different looks from different backs also made an impact. We used three Oline arrangements on Saturday:

1st was Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson
2nd was Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Carr, Fleischmann
3rd was Jefferson, Mastel, Reed, Carr, Flesichmann

We only got two possessions of each and Vigen was visibly upset by that in the post-game presser as they really wanted extended tape on these groups. I think our strongest RUNNING unit is the third group. I think our best PASSING unit is the 1st. I don't like the 2nd because, in my opinion, Jefferson is too talented in both run and pass that he needs to be on the field. Let's just put it this way, I saw Carr/Fleischmann drive block together on the right side for the first time and it looked wonderful to these eyes. I just think we need Titan to be at right tackle and Carr is our best run blocker left at guard in that scenario so then your deciding between the value of Zimmer or Jefferson at LT. Zimmer is getting better every game and is so impressive as a pass-blocker but Jefferson is better at both overall at this point in the season. My vote is we move forward with #3 and we take a deeper run-first identity and let Lamson cook in the play-action game as he's comfortable on the intermediate game. He took two deep shots in the deep game on Saturday and he frankly should of just ate those instead of throwing 50/50 balls to our two shortest receivers despite their playmaking ability. Its a process with Lamson and he needs to continue to improve in his decision making. My feeling is Sterbick is trying to make it relatively easy in his passing game. That has kind of always been his MO as a playcaller but his QB is trying to do too much right now when he doesn't have to.

I agree with you on using the 3rd unit listed above, as it sets us up for the run game the best. My only concern is that while Carr seems to have good push when engaged, his foot speed gets him beat against quicker interior linemen. That said, I'm always going to be a run-first guy, and I believe Zimmer is just too light in the lower half right now. He's going to be a really good one, but he just needs more time.

On to Lamson — put simply, no defense is afraid of him at the moment, not in the run game or the pass game.

In the run game: There's nothing stopping LBs from flowing, and there's very little to no backside hesitation. This is creating problems for our RBs. Defenses are okay with him pulling it and getting his five yards and the occasional 20.

In the pass game: Sterbick is feeling boxed in because Lamson won't stretch the field unless he calls plays like the one where the interception occurred (Yankee concept). Lamson seems to play extremely conservatively — he'll throw the under mesh/shallow routes all day, or take off running, but he won't push the ball downfield. This forces the coordinator to call two-receiver/max-protect concepts in an attempt to stretch the defense. Unfortunately, the play was covered well and the ball shouldn't have been thrown (easy read).

Part of me wonders how much of this passing game is coordinator vs. player. We just don't have the seam game that we had last year. Admittedly, I still need to go to a game in person to see if those routes are being called and just not executed.

With a QB who's not the same threat we're used to in the run game, and a passing game focused only on the short/intermediate, the run game will continue to struggle. The field is just too condensed. It needs to be stretched one way or the other — horizontally or vertically.

Things I would like to see:
1) Chance Wilson (easiest to implement, probably the hardest for the coaching staff to pull the trigger on)

2) More wide-split zone to take care of the backside and hope ILBs flow too hard (we do some IZ split, but I’m not sure I’ve seen WZ split)

3) More play-action off of #2 — the potential of this also helps hold backside flow

4) Use more jet motions/jet sweeps to cause hesitation (think Rovig days with Miller as coordinator)

When we got good chunks and looks against South Dakota State, it was literally what you described here only it was more IZ. When we went WZ, too many unblocked players but our run game blocking was such a mess in that one between OL and TEs, wouldn't mind going back to it more. But yes absolutely need to pound the zone concepts and then pop PA off of it. For one it plays into the strengths of our athletic TEs and our receivers. Just feels like we are running too many concepts right now and, like I said after SDSU, just need to build off of what we are good at. I saw some of that in the first half against Mercyhurst but then the weirdness of the 2nd half happened after that pick.

I disagree on Chance...for now. They want to be balanced and throw the ball efficiently but if the season gets pushed to the brink...Vigen has shown he isn't afraid to pull the trigger on a refresh as we saw in 2021.

I do agree with you on Jet Sweeps but we already use motion to lighten the box and defenses just aren't biting.

Simply put, the goods are there we just need to go prove it. Sterbick and Lamson will need to figure it out sooner than later or else its time to throw a stick of dynamite on it.

To be clear, I’m not necessarily pushing for a switch to Chance at quarterback right now. It’s more that I’d "like to see" what the offense — especially the run game — would look like with him back there. That’s mainly because I believe the run game would improve significantly or at least look more like what we're used to with him at QB.

And again, for me, the run game is always more important than the passing game, especially since we play in Montana, well into December.

Obviously, coaches don't have the luxury of making decisions based on curiosity. As a fan, I do. lol

I wouldn't mind seeing some packages for chance wilson. Especially on 3rd/4th and short situations.

[catatac]

Watching Vigens presser today there seems to be some consternation about which line up is the one he feels most comfortable with. ewu is going to come to town and whip our assets if they don’t stockpile turds in a rapid hurry.

Lots of head scratching as a fan.

The same team that played SDSU even is going to get whipped by Eastern?

I think last weeks game left a strange feeling with most. There were things to cleanup and I thought if there was progress from game three to four, it was incremental.

I personally wouldn’t take too much from that game.

We’re still a good team. Not as good as last year, yet, but a good team. Losing to Eastern would be a major collapse that just isn’t likely.

Agree! Vegas odds just came out, Cats are 18.5 point favorites vs the Eagles.

[94VegasCat]

Watching Vigens presser today there seems to be some consternation about which line up is the one he feels most comfortable with. ewu is going to come to town and whip our assets if they don’t stockpile turds in a rapid hurry.

Lots of head scratching as a fan.

The same team that played SDSU even is going to get whipped by Eastern?

That SAME team that played SDSU is not the same team that played mercyhurst. If the game two team shows up we’ll be fine. If the game four team shows up we need to get our ****** together.

[TomCat88]

Starting OL this week:
Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson

Long starting at WR. Taki and Daily not on depth chart.

[TomCat88]

Watching Vigens presser today there seems to be some consternation about which line up is the one he feels most comfortable with. ewu is going to come to town and whip our assets if they don’t stockpile turds in a rapid hurry.

Lots of head scratching as a fan.

The same team that played SDSU even is going to get whipped by Eastern?

That SAME team that played SDSU is not the same team that played mercyhurst. If the game two team shows up we’ll be fine. If the game four team shows up we need to get our ****** together.

Trying to evaluate teams after a handful of games against a vast range of opponents and vast range of how they played out is at best going to leave you frustrated. If you feel confident in your evaluation, then you’re probably fooling yourself.

At this point the secondary looks better than expected. As do the linebackers. The DL is as advertised. The offense is one broken 50-yard run by Jones from being exactly where it was expected to be. The overall record is a missed play from being exactly where expected.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Watching Vigens presser today there seems to be some consternation about which line up is the one he feels most comfortable with. ewu is going to come to town and whip our assets if they don’t stockpile turds in a rapid hurry.

Lots of head scratching as a fan.

The same team that played SDSU even is going to get whipped by Eastern?

That SAME team that played SDSU is not the same team that played mercyhurst. If the game two team shows up we’ll be fine. If the game four team shows up we need to get our ****** together.

Sure they are. The exact same team, in fact.

One of those games was a misleading performance, the other wasn’t.

Now I’m not justifying it, but they clearly just didn’t have it going against Mercyhurst. It’s understandable, happens to a lot of good football teams. I wouldn’t take too much from that performance. We’ve seen them against a very good team. That matters a lot more. They’re not going to come out dead against a conference opponent for homecoming, just ain’t happening.

[coloradocat]

Starting OL this week:
Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson

Long starting at WR. Taki and Daily not on depth chart.

So our pass-first OC won the argument over which group to go with (at least for the opening play).

[BelligerentBobcat]

Starting OL this week:
Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson

Long starting at WR. Taki and Daily not on depth chart.

So our pass-first OC won the argument over which group to go with (at least for the opening play).

It’s actually Matt Smith’s choice, with collaboration of course.

[TomCat88]

Starting OL this week:
Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson

Long starting at WR. Taki and Daily not on depth chart.

So our pass-first OC won the argument over which group to go with (at least for the opening play).

MSU has run it 152 times and passed 108. ~60/40. Only three BSC teams have more rush attempts per game than MSU. MSU is 8th in pass attempts per game.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Starting OL this week:
Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson

Long starting at WR. Taki and Daily not on depth chart.

So our pass-first OC won the argument over which group to go with (at least for the opening play).

MSU has run it 152 times and passed 108. ~60/40. Only three BSC teams have more rush attempts per game than MSU. MSU is 8th in pass attempts per game.

How many of those are QB scrambles? Because those are passing plays.

[TomCat88]

Starting OL this week:
Zimmer, Mastel, Reed, Fleischmann, Jefferson

Long starting at WR. Taki and Daily not on depth chart.

So our pass-first OC won the argument over which group to go with (at least for the opening play).

MSU has run it 152 times and passed 108. ~60/40. Only three BSC teams have more rush attempts per game than MSU. MSU is 8th in pass attempts per game.

How many of those are QB scrambles? Because those are passing plays.

Good point. I'm sure every team has a few of those. Last year MSU was ~70/30 run/pass without factoring in QB runs. MSU doesn't run as much this season, but I don't think anyone expected it would. What MSU is doing as a ratio is similar (almost exactly the same) to what NDSU and SDSU have been doing for years.

[onceacat]

Watching Vigens presser today there seems to be some consternation about which line up is the one he feels most comfortable with. ewu is going to come to town and whip our assets if they don’t stockpile turds in a rapid hurry.

Lots of head scratching as a fan.

The same team that played SDSU even is going to get whipped by Eastern?

That SAME team that played SDSU is not the same team that played mercyhurst. If the game two team shows up we’ll be fine. If the game four team shows up we need to get our ****** together.

Sure they are. The exact same team, in fact.

One of those games was a misleading performance, the other wasn’t.

Now I’m not justifying it, but they clearly just didn’t have it going against Mercyhurst. It’s understandable, happens to a lot of good football teams. I wouldn’t take too much from that performance. We’ve seen them against a very good team. That matters a lot more. They’re not going to come out dead against a conference opponent for homecoming, just ain’t happening.

Yeah, fans shouldn't be excited about the MH game, but like you said, that happens. Of course, it's possible that the SDSU game was the outlier too.

It's not likely though. If the Cats have a bunch more uninspired games like last weekend, I'll start getting worried. But a reasonable game at Oregon, a good game against the #2 team at home & beating up USD all make me think that we aren't going to see too many more performances like last weekend.

[VimSince03]

Take it for what its worth but JT Reed is currently the #5 graded center in the FCS. That tracks with what I've graded out on tape over the first four games as a whole. No other players for offense or defense made the Top 5's at their positions.