Transferring to FBS vs staying FCS

[catsrback76]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted FA. Made $375k that first year with the Patriots (league minimum is $800k now, adjusted for inflation I guess) vs. $4-$8m/year for a mid round draft pick.

I think Woodhead 100% proves the point: the value is in being a higher draft pick.

The point I was making by bringing him up was not the relative monies garnered for being a higher round draft pick. That’s obvious. Danny Woodhead was at Chadron State which is Div II and proves the point that it ULTIMATELY doesn’t matter if you transfer up or down, your skills and talents make a way. In a sense, Troy is an example of my point as well. He didn’t transfer to Cal or Oregon, the abilities he possess made a way for him and he was drafted high. Stay, develop, play and you will be seen! Slide around, shift, move up (Ifanse) and lose the traction you’ve gained. Danny got paid because he played amazing football…yes at Chadron, but it was evident he was a player! I think that point can be made as well.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted FA. Made $375k that first year with the Patriots (league minimum is $800k now, adjusted for inflation I guess) vs. $4-$8m/year for a mid round draft pick.

I think Woodhead 100% proves the point: the value is in being a higher draft pick.

The point I was making by bringing him up was not the relative monies garnered for being a higher round draft pick. That’s obvious. Danny Woodhead was at Chadron State which is Div II and proves the point that it ULTIMATELY doesn’t matter if you transfer up or down, your skills and talents make a way. In a sense, Troy is an example of my point as well. He didn’t transfer to Cal or Oregon, the abilities he possess made a way for him and he was drafted high. Stay, develop, play and you will be seen! Slide around, shift, move up (Ifanse) and lose the traction you’ve gained. Danny got paid because he played amazing football…yes at Chadron, but it was evident he was a player! I think that point can be made as well.

Ifanse wasn't getting drafted if he stayed.

[onceacat]

I've always felt like it doesn't raise your draft stock at all if you play FBS vs FCS, ESPECIALLY if it's mid level FBS versus upper level FCS. So if an NFL hopeful from MSU transfers to New Mexico, or UCLA or wherever because they think it will help their NFL chances, that's a bad decision. If they're going for more NIL money, I don't blame them for that and that is probably why most of them do it.

G5, for sure. But UCLA? That means you are going to have tape going against elite defenses like USC & Utah (prior to the Pac folding) or Ohio & Michigan (now that UCLA is playing in the Big 10).

Plus (and lots of people forget this) you have a degree from UCLA if you don't get drafted with is a couple orders of magnitude different than a diploma from MSU or UNM.

PLUS, like you said, NIL money.

The difference between top FCS & most of the G5 is pretty minimal, maybe $20k in NIL difference and everything else is either a push or better at FCS, but as soon as you hit P4 schools, transferring is really a no brainer.

I have a question about a diploma from UCLA versus Montana State University. What is the difference? And how does that transfer into income?
I don’t have any real world comparisons to reference

Depending on what your degree is in its a huge difference. I went to a top 15 school in the country. They sold us on coming there by saying that graduates from my school earned about 10% more on average when entering the workforce. I can say for a fact, in my case it was true. Every employer I interviewed with found extra money to entice me to choose them. When I was in school I applied for a summer internship, it was for business majors...I wasn't a business major...I was the only person in the whole program, about 100 people, that interviewed with the ceo, he then created a spot for me in their health dept because of where I went to school.

On a grand scale it doesn't matter where you go as your end success is determined by your work ethic and a little luck. But trust me a degree from a top academic institution opens doors faster than not having one. Again, anyone can do well and most do. There's a lot of people in my field that are doing way better than me and their degree is from "lower tier" schools, so again it doesn't really matter but at the same time.... it does matter.

Yep. For 90% of hiring managers, if you have two resumes with all other things being equal, one from Harvard and one from MSU-Billings, the Harvard resume goes to the top of the stack every time.

Those top schools open up doors for internships, for alumni networks, put you in top positions for graduate or professional school...

If you are trying to get VC to fund a startup, you pretty much have to go to one of these 35 schools..https://news.crunchbase.com/startups/he ... to-school/

Theres nothing wrong with MSU (or other FCS schools) for a degree. But second tier institutions can't hold a candle to the doors that are opened for you by virtue of going to the top 25-50 universities in the country.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted FA. Made $375k that first year with the Patriots (league minimum is $800k now, adjusted for inflation I guess) vs. $4-$8m/year for a mid round draft pick.

I think Woodhead 100% proves the point: the value is in being a higher draft pick.

The point I was making by bringing him up was not the relative monies garnered for being a higher round draft pick. That’s obvious. Danny Woodhead was at Chadron State which is Div II and proves the point that it ULTIMATELY doesn’t matter if you transfer up or down, your skills and talents make a way. In a sense, Troy is an example of my point as well. He didn’t transfer to Cal or Oregon, the abilities he possess made a way for him and he was drafted high. Stay, develop, play and you will be seen! Slide around, shift, move up (Ifanse) and lose the traction you’ve gained. Danny got paid because he played amazing football…yes at Chadron, but it was evident he was a player! I think that point can be made as well.

You can't use a one off as your go to. That isn't the norm. Telling a kid stay at a lower level because if you're good they'll find you is false. It's a small sample that happens to. Back ups at p4s will get a chance above great lower level guys and kids know that. It's just the facts.

[PapaG]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted and may have been drafted at a larger program. The portal is perfect for players like him. Bounced around the NFL and should have been a Darren Sproles-type.

[onceacat]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted FA. Made $375k that first year with the Patriots (league minimum is $800k now, adjusted for inflation I guess) vs. $4-$8m/year for a mid round draft pick.

I think Woodhead 100% proves the point: the value is in being a higher draft pick.

The point I was making by bringing him up was not the relative monies garnered for being a higher round draft pick. That’s obvious. Danny Woodhead was at Chadron State which is Div II and proves the point that it ULTIMATELY doesn’t matter if you transfer up or down, your skills and talents make a way. In a sense, Troy is an example of my point as well. He didn’t transfer to Cal or Oregon, the abilities he possess made a way for him and he was drafted high. Stay, develop, play and you will be seen! Slide around, shift, move up (Ifanse) and lose the traction you’ve gained. Danny got paid because he played amazing football…yes at Chadron, but it was evident he was a player! I think that point can be made as well.

You can't use a one off as your go to. That isn't the norm. Telling a kid stay at a lower level because if you're good they'll find you is false. It's a small sample that happens to. Back ups at p4s will get a chance above great lower level guys and kids know that. It's just the facts.

Back ups at P4s also have access to better coaches, better strength and conditioning programs, better nutrition, better (as players) role models, and a whole host of other advantages.

Obviously most of the guys aren't going Pro. But just the chance to be the absolute best version of yourself while you are in your athletic prime is a huge motivator.

I don't think theres any way that any FCS program competes with any P4 program for talent in a meaningful way, and thats before you consider NIL money.

But I think that top tier FCS should be able to compete with most G5 (or 6?) programs. Which is why I think the top FCS programs need to move up, but thats a bit of a different story.

[tetoncat]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted FA. Made $375k that first year with the Patriots (league minimum is $800k now, adjusted for inflation I guess) vs. $4-$8m/year for a mid round draft pick.

I think Woodhead 100% proves the point: the value is in being a higher draft pick.

The point I was making by bringing him up was not the relative monies garnered for being a higher round draft pick. That’s obvious. Danny Woodhead was at Chadron State which is Div II and proves the point that it ULTIMATELY doesn’t matter if you transfer up or down, your skills and talents make a way. In a sense, Troy is an example of my point as well. He didn’t transfer to Cal or Oregon, the abilities he possess made a way for him and he was drafted high. Stay, develop, play and you will be seen! Slide around, shift, move up (Ifanse) and lose the traction you’ve gained. Danny got paid because he played amazing football…yes at Chadron, but it was evident he was a player! I think that point can be made as well.

You can't use a one off as your go to. That isn't the norm. Telling a kid stay at a lower level because if you're good they'll find you is false. It's a small sample that happens to. Back ups at p4s will get a chance above great lower level guys and kids know that. It's just the facts.

Back ups at P4s also have access to better coaches, better strength and conditioning programs, better nutrition, better (as players) role models, and a whole host of other advantages.

Obviously most of the guys aren't going Pro. But just the chance to be the absolute best version of yourself while you are in your athletic prime is a huge motivator.

I don't think theres any way that any FCS program competes with any P4 program for talent in a meaningful way, and thats before you consider NIL money.

But I think that top tier FCS should be able to compete with most G5 (or 6?) programs. Which is why I think the top FCS programs need to move up, but thats a bit of a different story.

How many p4 backups are drafted each year, or even get tryouts. I bet not many.

[canyoncat]

Casey Fitzsimmons undrafted out NAIA Carroll College had a nice NFL carrer until concussions derailed it. Point is the NFL will find you if you are good enough. Unfortunatley it does cost draft position so you won't get as high of a signing bonus on the first contract if you come from "small" school.

[TomCat88]

If you need the money, transfer.
If you don't need the money, but you love money, transfer.
If you're good enough that you think your draft stock will change if you transfer, then you should transfer.
If you're able to transfer to a school that is going to make it so you earn significantly more money, then you should transfer.
If you think transferring is going to change the odds of a NFL team noticing you, they you should stay.

[seataccat]

I know an NFL pro scout personally and have had quite a few discussions with him about how they do their job. They spend far more time watching film than they do attending games. When they are watching film they are generally evaluating a single player. Occasionally another player will catch their attention.
This is why it's almost always better to be on a higher profile team than a lower lever FCS team. In the case of Troy Andersen or Marcus Wehr the scouts are going to find you regardless. But in the case of Daniel Hardy, he was noticed by scouts when they were watching film on Troy Andersen. Had he been at Utah Tech I doubt he would have been invited to the combine nor drafted.
The players that everyone crapped on for moving to UNM will almost certainly get more scout eyeballs on them competing in the MW than the BSC since there are far more scouts evaluating those game films than MSU games.
The only reason to stay at the lower levels is if your coaching situation is better or if your playing time situation is better. Otherwise moving from FCS to G5 is a good move not only for the NIL but for the next level opportunities IMHO.

[Cats and Dogs]

I know an NFL pro scout personally and have had quite a few discussions with him about how they do their job. They spend far more time watching film than they do attending games. When they are watching film they are generally evaluating a single player. Occasionally another player will catch their attention.
This is why it's almost always better to be on a higher profile team than a lower lever FCS team. In the case of Troy Andersen or Marcus Wehr the scouts are going to find you regardless. But in the case of Daniel Hardy, he was noticed by scouts when they were watching film on Troy Andersen. Had he been at Utah Tech I doubt he would have been invited to the combine nor drafted.
The players that everyone crapped on for moving to UNM will almost certainly get more scout eyeballs on them competing in the MW than the BSC since there are far more scouts evaluating those game films than MSU games.
The only reason to stay at the lower levels is if your coaching situation is better or if your playing time situation is better. Otherwise moving from FCS to G5 is a good move not only for the NIL but for the next level opportunities IMHO.

No doubt, check out UNM's schedule next year. Much more exposure. The wild card is actual playing time or do they get beat out moving up? Either way not many are going to the NFL!

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Casey Fitzsimmons undrafted out NAIA Carroll College had a nice NFL carrer until concussions derailed it. Point is the NFL will find you if you are good enough. Unfortunatley it does cost draft position so you won't get as high of a signing bonus on the first contract if you come from "small" school.

Again you are using a one off. That isn't the norm. For every naia guy I can give you 100 fbs players that go undrafted and go too a camp. It's about the chance and the chances are much much more slim going to a small school. Your charges increase exponentially going to a bigger school. It's just a fact.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted FA. Made $375k that first year with the Patriots (league minimum is $800k now, adjusted for inflation I guess) vs. $4-$8m/year for a mid round draft pick.

I think Woodhead 100% proves the point: the value is in being a higher draft pick.

The point I was making by bringing him up was not the relative monies garnered for being a higher round draft pick. That’s obvious. Danny Woodhead was at Chadron State which is Div II and proves the point that it ULTIMATELY doesn’t matter if you transfer up or down, your skills and talents make a way. In a sense, Troy is an example of my point as well. He didn’t transfer to Cal or Oregon, the abilities he possess made a way for him and he was drafted high. Stay, develop, play and you will be seen! Slide around, shift, move up (Ifanse) and lose the traction you’ve gained. Danny got paid because he played amazing football…yes at Chadron, but it was evident he was a player! I think that point can be made as well.

You can't use a one off as your go to. That isn't the norm. Telling a kid stay at a lower level because if you're good they'll find you is false. It's a small sample that happens to. Back ups at p4s will get a chance above great lower level guys and kids know that. It's just the facts.

Back ups at P4s also have access to better coaches, better strength and conditioning programs, better nutrition, better (as players) role models, and a whole host of other advantages.

Obviously most of the guys aren't going Pro. But just the chance to be the absolute best version of yourself while you are in your athletic prime is a huge motivator.

I don't think theres any way that any FCS program competes with any P4 program for talent in a meaningful way, and thats before you consider NIL money.

But I think that top tier FCS should be able to compete with most G5 (or 6?) programs. Which is why I think the top FCS programs need to move up, but thats a bit of a different story.

How many p4 backups are drafted each year, or even get tryouts. I bet not many.

It's about getting a chance... not necessarily drafted. There are exponentially more back ups that get uda opportunities over fcs, naia, d2 and d3 guys. It's just the facts of it. And we aren't talking about back ups. We're talking players that are posting and getting proven to be really good players.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

I know an NFL pro scout personally and have had quite a few discussions with him about how they do their job. They spend far more time watching film than they do attending games. When they are watching film they are generally evaluating a single player. Occasionally another player will catch their attention.
This is why it's almost always better to be on a higher profile team than a lower lever FCS team. In the case of Troy Andersen or Marcus Wehr the scouts are going to find you regardless. But in the case of Daniel Hardy, he was noticed by scouts when they were watching film on Troy Andersen. Had he been at Utah Tech I doubt he would have been invited to the combine nor drafted.
The players that everyone crapped on for moving to UNM will almost certainly get more scout eyeballs on them competing in the MW than the BSC since there are far more scouts evaluating those game films than MSU games.
The only reason to stay at the lower levels is if your coaching situation is better or if your playing time situation is better. Otherwise moving from FCS to G5 is a good move not only for the NIL but for the next level opportunities IMHO.

Dead on

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Danny Woodhead…

Undrafted FA. Made $375k that first year with the Patriots (league minimum is $800k now, adjusted for inflation I guess) vs. $4-$8m/year for a mid round draft pick.

I think Woodhead 100% proves the point: the value is in being a higher draft pick.

The point I was making by bringing him up was not the relative monies garnered for being a higher round draft pick. That’s obvious. Danny Woodhead was at Chadron State which is Div II and proves the point that it ULTIMATELY doesn’t matter if you transfer up or down, your skills and talents make a way. In a sense, Troy is an example of my point as well. He didn’t transfer to Cal or Oregon, the abilities he possess made a way for him and he was drafted high. Stay, develop, play and you will be seen! Slide around, shift, move up (Ifanse) and lose the traction you’ve gained. Danny got paid because he played amazing football…yes at Chadron, but it was evident he was a player! I think that point can be made as well.

You can't use a one off as your go to. That isn't the norm. Telling a kid stay at a lower level because if you're good they'll find you is false. It's a small sample that happens to. Back ups at p4s will get a chance above great lower level guys and kids know that. It's just the facts.

Back ups at P4s also have access to better coaches, better strength and conditioning programs, better nutrition, better (as players) role models, and a whole host of other advantages.

Obviously most of the guys aren't going Pro. But just the chance to be the absolute best version of yourself while you are in your athletic prime is a huge motivator.

I don't think theres any way that any FCS program competes with any P4 program for talent in a meaningful way, and thats before you consider NIL money.

But I think that top tier FCS should be able to compete with most G5 (or 6?) programs. Which is why I think the top FCS programs need to move up, but thats a bit of a different story.

Agreed..... although I'd say that we're are a top level fcs program and we barely beat a bad unm team. I'm not in favor of moving up because their isn't a benefit long term imo... but as your said thats another story for a different time.

[wbtfg]

I've always felt like it doesn't raise your draft stock at all if you play FBS vs FCS, ESPECIALLY if it's mid level FBS versus upper level FCS. So if an NFL hopeful from MSU transfers to New Mexico, or UCLA or wherever because they think it will help their NFL chances, that's a bad decision. If they're going for more NIL money, I don't blame them for that and that is probably why most of them do it.

G5, for sure. But UCLA? That means you are going to have tape going against elite defenses like USC & Utah (prior to the Pac folding) or Ohio & Michigan (now that UCLA is playing in the Big 10).

Plus (and lots of people forget this) you have a degree from UCLA if you don't get drafted with is a couple orders of magnitude different than a diploma from MSU or UNM.

PLUS, like you said, NIL money.

The difference between top FCS & most of the G5 is pretty minimal, maybe $20k in NIL difference and everything else is either a push or better at FCS, but as soon as you hit P4 schools, transferring is really a no brainer.

I have a question about a diploma from UCLA versus Montana State University. What is the difference? And how does that transfer into income?
I don’t have any real world comparisons to reference

I think it depends on what you want to do, but I believe UCLA is ranked as the Number 1 public university in the nation. So it's essentially the public school version of Harvard/Princeton/Yale. That carries a lot of weight on grad school applications, internships, as well as with getting hired at fortune 500 type corporations.

[Monymony]

I know an NFL pro scout personally and have had quite a few discussions with him about how they do their job. They spend far more time watching film than they do attending games. When they are watching film they are generally evaluating a single player. Occasionally another player will catch their attention.
This is why it's almost always better to be on a higher profile team than a lower lever FCS team. In the case of Troy Andersen or Marcus Wehr the scouts are going to find you regardless. But in the case of Daniel Hardy, he was noticed by scouts when they were watching film on Troy Andersen. Had he been at Utah Tech I doubt he would have been invited to the combine nor drafted.
The players that everyone crapped on for moving to UNM will almost certainly get more scout eyeballs on them competing in the MW than the BSC since there are far more scouts evaluating those game films than MSU games.
The only reason to stay at the lower levels is if your coaching situation is better or if your playing time situation is better. Otherwise moving from FCS to G5 is a good move not only for the NIL but for the next level opportunities IMHO.

Dead on

How many players transfer to FBS schools then lose reps though? Pretty hard to get noticed on film if you get snaps cut in half. There are also cases where players in the FCS can look really attractive on film, transfer up, suck, end up not even getting a change. I think for the top FCS guys you get just as much attention, if not more, than being mediocre on the FBS level. Guys like Wentz, Lance, Troy, Watson, etc all kicked ass and got a ton of traction for it. Heck Grownowski will be a perfect test dummy, as was the Idaho QB.

I understand your point but I think dominating or getting more reps is way better than being average or getting less snaps.

[catsrback76]

I know an NFL pro scout personally and have had quite a few discussions with him about how they do their job. They spend far more time watching film than they do attending games. When they are watching film they are generally evaluating a single player. Occasionally another player will catch their attention.
This is why it's almost always better to be on a higher profile team than a lower lever FCS team. In the case of Troy Andersen or Marcus Wehr the scouts are going to find you regardless. But in the case of Daniel Hardy, he was noticed by scouts when they were watching film on Troy Andersen. Had he been at Utah Tech I doubt he would have been invited to the combine nor drafted.
The players that everyone crapped on for moving to UNM will almost certainly get more scout eyeballs on them competing in the MW than the BSC since there are far more scouts evaluating those game films than MSU games.
The only reason to stay at the lower levels is if your coaching situation is better or if your playing time situation is better. Otherwise moving from FCS to G5 is a good move not only for the NIL but for the next level opportunities IMHO.

Dead on

How many players transfer to FBS schools then lose reps though? Pretty hard to get noticed on film if you get snaps cut in half. There are also cases where players in the FCS can look really attractive on film, transfer up, suck, end up not even getting a change. I think for the top FCS guys you get just as much attention, if not more, than being mediocre on the FBS level. Guys like Wentz, Lance, Troy, Watson, etc all kicked ass and got a ton of traction for it. Heck Grownowski will be a perfect test dummy, as was the Idaho QB.

I understand your point but I think dominating or getting more reps is way better than being average or getting less snaps.

I think this is more in line with my thinking. How many move ups pan out to more eyes on the players in question? Cameron Skattebo is more the one off than Danny Woodhead to my thinking. If Skattebo stayed at Sac would he not be getting the same press? No he wouldn’t, but he’s the one off! Most FCS players moving up will not be a Skattebo. For the rest, I think that playing more on the field at the FCS as opposed to sharing less reps at FBS shines more brightly. I might be wrong but reps get you seen and when you are seen they are well able to evaluate your relative skills in the game.

[MSU01]

I know an NFL pro scout personally and have had quite a few discussions with him about how they do their job. They spend far more time watching film than they do attending games. When they are watching film they are generally evaluating a single player. Occasionally another player will catch their attention.
This is why it's almost always better to be on a higher profile team than a lower lever FCS team. In the case of Troy Andersen or Marcus Wehr the scouts are going to find you regardless. But in the case of Daniel Hardy, he was noticed by scouts when they were watching film on Troy Andersen. Had he been at Utah Tech I doubt he would have been invited to the combine nor drafted.
The players that everyone crapped on for moving to UNM will almost certainly get more scout eyeballs on them competing in the MW than the BSC since there are far more scouts evaluating those game films than MSU games.
The only reason to stay at the lower levels is if your coaching situation is better or if your playing time situation is better. Otherwise moving from FCS to G5 is a good move not only for the NIL but for the next level opportunities IMHO.

Dead on

How many players transfer to FBS schools then lose reps though? Pretty hard to get noticed on film if you get snaps cut in half. There are also cases where players in the FCS can look really attractive on film, transfer up, suck, end up not even getting a change. I think for the top FCS guys you get just as much attention, if not more, than being mediocre on the FBS level. Guys like Wentz, Lance, Troy, Watson, etc all kicked ass and got a ton of traction for it. Heck Grownowski will be a perfect test dummy, as was the Idaho QB.

I understand your point but I think dominating or getting more reps is way better than being average or getting less snaps.

If a player transfers up and loses reps, then he was never good enough to be an NFL player either way.

[onceacat]

I know an NFL pro scout personally and have had quite a few discussions with him about how they do their job. They spend far more time watching film than they do attending games. When they are watching film they are generally evaluating a single player. Occasionally another player will catch their attention.
This is why it's almost always better to be on a higher profile team than a lower lever FCS team. In the case of Troy Andersen or Marcus Wehr the scouts are going to find you regardless. But in the case of Daniel Hardy, he was noticed by scouts when they were watching film on Troy Andersen. Had he been at Utah Tech I doubt he would have been invited to the combine nor drafted.
The players that everyone crapped on for moving to UNM will almost certainly get more scout eyeballs on them competing in the MW than the BSC since there are far more scouts evaluating those game films than MSU games.
The only reason to stay at the lower levels is if your coaching situation is better or if your playing time situation is better. Otherwise moving from FCS to G5 is a good move not only for the NIL but for the next level opportunities IMHO.

Dead on

How many players transfer to FBS schools then lose reps though? Pretty hard to get noticed on film if you get snaps cut in half. There are also cases where players in the FCS can look really attractive on film, transfer up, suck, end up not even getting a change. I think for the top FCS guys you get just as much attention, if not more, than being mediocre on the FBS level. Guys like Wentz, Lance, Troy, Watson, etc all kicked ass and got a ton of traction for it. Heck Grownowski will be a perfect test dummy, as was the Idaho QB.

I understand your point but I think dominating or getting more reps is way better than being average or getting less snaps.

Its hard to know what a lot of these guys are thinking...but this one is super easy:

None of them transfer with the expectation that they will be getting fewer snaps.