What if…

[Monymony]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

[CodyCat]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

Its important. Really important to beat the gris. Overall, he has been a very successful coach though. Last season was a major let down. And changes were made that will hopefully address the issues that led to four losses. To me personally, anything short of the National Title this season will be disappointing. But, thats just my unimportant and pointless expectations.

[coachouert]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

[coloradocat]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

I'd say Vigen is currently considered a successful* Bobcat coach. He needs to start winning in Missoula, or at a minimum not get embarrassed when the game is there, in order to remove the asterisk.

[cats2506]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

Both have done great things for the Cats, Choate took over a team in total disarray and had to rebuild the culture and the roster. Vigen took over a team with a solid culture and a roster that had been to a semi-final game. The comparison of the records isn't really fair in my opinion.

[D-Wreck]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

You're not wrong. I just really hate the gris.

[TomCat88]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

Both have done great things for the Cats, Choate took over a team in total disarray and had to rebuild the culture and the roster. Vigen took over a team with a solid culture and a roster that had been to a semi-final game. The comparison of the records isn't really fair in my opinion.

Cat-Griz is just a weird game. Hardly ever goes as expected. I'd never judge a coach based on their ability to win that game. If you go .500 in it, you're doing good. Some coaches have great records and I suspect have had great luck in it or their teams were just vastly superior to the opponent.

The last four games have not been indicative at all of the difference between the two teams in terms of coaching or players. They've been a perfect example of why judging anyone on that game is futile.

If anyone has a record of showing superior coaching ability in that game, it's Choate. Read went 10-0 in it, but a monkey could've coached UM to wins in almost all of those games. Likewise, Holland had a dominant record (6-1?), but I don't think UM (aside from 1970, Griz won that game and I think only lost one game that season) was very good at that time.

So, comparing Vigen to Choate is tough. No one really stacks up well with him in Cat-Griz games. MSU was an underdog in all four games even with Stitt coaching. MSU would've been the favorite in 2019, but with Andersen out I considered UM the favorite.

[coachouert]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

Both have done great things for the Cats, Choate took over a team in total disarray and had to rebuild the culture and the roster. Vigen took over a team with a solid culture and a roster that had been to a semi-final game. The comparison of the records isn't really fair in my opinion.

That's very legit and I agree with you. My point I was trying to get at was that comparing Cat/gris records, but not looking at overall records to determine "success" isn't really fair in my opinion.

An example I can think of is would people be calling Old Earle a successful Bobcat coach if he had the record he did, but had a winning record against UM? I would like to think that would be a resounding no, but BN never ceases to amaze me.

[coachouert]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

You're not wrong. I just really hate the gris.

As do I. As do I. FTG

[BobcatDel]

Consider this....

The last Big Sky Conference head coach to "move up" to the FBS directly as a head coach and have any modicum of success was John L. Smith at Idaho back in the early 1990s. He went to Utah State for three years, made a bowl and got the Louisville job.

Before that, it was Mike Price, who went 46-44 at Weber State in the 1980s before getting the Washington State job and doing well, going 82-78 with four bowl appearances and two Rose Bowl trips between 1989 and 2002.

Other than that...

Montana State - every coach not named Jeff Choate has been fired since Sonny Holland retired...

Montana - Mick Dennehy went 19-37 at Utah State....Joe Glenn went 30-41 at Wyoming and 12-34 at South Dakota....Bobby Hauck went 15-49 at UNLV.

Northern Arizona - never had a coach move up to another head coaching role since joining the Big Sky

Idaho State - Dave Kragthorpe left two years after winning the 1981 national title to become the athletic director at Utah State. He resurfaced at Oregon State and went 17-48.

Weber State - Dave Arlanian went 7-15 at Utah State.

Cal Poly - Rich Ellerson went 20-41 at Army after leaving SLO.

Eastern Washington - Mike Kramer took the MSU job after having EWU in the semis and did well, but never got a crack at the FCS. Paul Wulff got unceremoniously fired at Washington State after going 9-40. Beau Baldwin derailed his career by bouncing around to Cal, head coach at Cal Poly and now an assistant in the CFL. Baldwin, like Southern Utah's Ed Lamb, Weber State's Jay Hill, Montana State's Jeff Choate, decided to go the FBS assistant route in hopes of getting an FBS head coaching job. It's only worked so far for Choate

Sac State- we will see about Troy Taylor. Everyone else never did anything after Sac State.

UC Davis - huge coaching tree but no head coaches moved on as two of the last three (Bob Biggs, Dan Hawkins) over the last 35 years simply retired.

Portland State - Tim Walsh resurfaced at Cal Poly and did a nice job, but no FBS head coaching credentials. Jerry Glanville, Nigel Burton fired. Barnum has been there a decade now.

Northern Colorado - only had two seasons as a Division I program with winning records and only had one season where they were above .500 against all D-I opponents. Scott Downing, Earnest Collins, Ed McCaffrey all fired. Ed Lamb, who left Southern Utah to become the ST coordinator at BYU, is now there. If he can't get them competitive, no one can.

There's the perception that the Big Sky Conference is and always has been a stepping stone. That is true in men's basketball, especially at Montana, and a bit in women's basketball. But for football head coaches, a few have made the jump and none have made it successfully, at least not in the last 30 years.

I guess the term “directly” rules out moving first to an assistant at FBS level then HC and being successful.

I always thought Lubick was a success from MSU to assistant at Colorado State then HC. 3 WAC and 3 MAC titles, 9 bowl appearances, Sports illustrated Coach of Year in ‘94. Colorado HOF. Butte Montana kid.

I don’t know how you consider Dennis Erickson in this mix. Certainly was a winner at various FBS programs including two National Championships at Miami after assistant role at MSU. And stints at the pro level. I suppose again it’s the term “directly” from HC to HC at next level that rules em out.

[ragucat]

Doug Graber who followed Sonny Lubick was hired in December of 1981 and coached one season 1982 then left in the spring of 1983 for an assistant coach job with the Kansas City Chiefs. He was not fired from the Bobcats.

[PapaG]

Very informative post @Colter_Nuanez . Thanks for it. That’s bad any way you look at it. Seems as if Choate’s path to Texas could be a better option, especially now that developing an NIL donor base will be so important in FBS.

[PapaG]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

I was at the 2015 Cat-Griz game visiting from Portland and knew Ash was being let go by 9pm that night at the R-Bar from my group that included QB Club and former players. Prukop especially and the offense including Herbert, Sandland, and Newell willed that team on talent alone to wins in games where the defense was overwhelmed by average teams. Depth was awful and Choate had two rough seasons to start out. Read this board back then to see how some wanted him gone. Vigen inherited a great situation and frankly, the team is loaded this year and should compete for a national title. That’s a lot of pressure and 8-4 isn’t going to cut it again without a hot seat.

[TomCat88]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

I was at the 2015 Cat-Griz game visiting from Portland and knew Ash was being let go by 9pm that night at the R-Bar from my group that included QB Club and former players. Prukop especially and the offense including Herbert, Sandland, and Newell willed that team on talent alone to wins in games where the defense was overwhelmed by average teams. Depth was awful and Choate had two rough seasons to start out. Read this board back then to see how some wanted him gone. Vigen inherited a great situation and frankly, the team is loaded this year and should compete for a national title. That’s a lot of pressure and 8-4 isn’t going to cut it again without a hot seat.

2025 was “MSU’s year” at the start of the 2023 season. That has come to fruition through today and probably until something drastic happens to change that.

2023 went better than expected (for me at least; a couple huge plays vs EW and NA helped).

2024 went about how everyone expected in the regular season. The exception being the defense looking much better than anticipated early. That got hopes up and when the defense struggled late it led to disappointment for a lot of fans.

If MSU goes 8-4 this season, it will be a major letdown. That scenario would likely include four losses to some combination of: at New Mexico, at Cal Poly, at EW, vs UM, vs Idaho, vs SAC. Most likely the first four.

That scenario would see Vigen going to the championship, then to the semis, then out in the second round after a bye, then 8-4 and possibly traveling in the first round with a team many foresaw as a contender for the championship to go along with a 1-3 record vs UM. Hot seat at the very least but most likely gone and definitely a lot of people saying he should be gone. There would have to be a reason beyond anything he could control to save his job.

[MSU01]

If MSU goes 8-4 this season, it will be a major letdown. That scenario would likely include four losses to some combination of: at New Mexico, at Cal Poly, at EW, vs UM, vs Idaho, vs SAC. Most likely the first four.

That scenario would see Vigen going to the championship, then to the semis, then out in the second round after a bye, then 8-4 and possibly traveling in the first round with a team many foresaw as a contender for the championship to go along with a 1-3 record vs UM. Hot seat at the very least but most likely gone and definitely a lot of people saying he should be gone. There would have to be a reason beyond anything he could control to save his job.

Vigen is under contract through the 2026 season. As disappointing as an 8-4 season and early playoff exit would be for all involved given how much talent MSU has on the roster this season, there is absolutely no way it would lead to him being fired with two years still left on his contract. If 2024 doesn't go well, perhaps that's the point that he decides on his own to go back to the FBS level for a higher-paying assistant job.

[TomCat88]

If MSU goes 8-4 this season, it will be a major letdown. That scenario would likely include four losses to some combination of: at New Mexico, at Cal Poly, at EW, vs UM, vs Idaho, vs SAC. Most likely the first four.

That scenario would see Vigen going to the championship, then to the semis, then out in the second round after a bye, then 8-4 and possibly traveling in the first round with a team many foresaw as a contender for the championship to go along with a 1-3 record vs UM. Hot seat at the very least but most likely gone and definitely a lot of people saying he should be gone. There would have to be a reason beyond anything he could control to save his job.

Vigen is under contract through the 2026 season. As disappointing as an 8-4 season and early playoff exit would be for all involved given how much talent MSU has on the roster this season, there is absolutely no way it would lead to him being fired with two years still left on his contract. If 2024 doesn't go well, perhaps that's the point that he decides on his own to go back to the FBS level for a higher-paying assistant job.

Like I said, "...a reason beyond anything he could control..."

[AFCAT]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

I was at the 2015 Cat-Griz game visiting from Portland and knew Ash was being let go by 9pm that night at the R-Bar from my group that included QB Club and former players. Prukop especially and the offense including Herbert, Sandland, and Newell willed that team on talent alone to wins in games where the defense was overwhelmed by average teams. Depth was awful and Choate had two rough seasons to start out. Read this board back then to see how some wanted him gone. Vigen inherited a great situation and frankly, the team is loaded this year and should compete for a national title. That’s a lot of pressure and 8-4 isn’t going to cut it again without a hot seat.

2025 was “MSU’s year” at the start of the 2023 season. That has come to fruition through today and probably until something drastic happens to change that.

2023 went better than expected (for me at least; a couple huge plays vs EW and NA helped).

2024 went about how everyone expected in the regular season. The exception being the defense looking much better than anticipated early. That got hopes up and when the defense struggled late it led to disappointment for a lot of fans.

If MSU goes 8-4 this season, it will be a major letdown. That scenario would likely include four losses to some combination of: at New Mexico, at Cal Poly, at EW, vs UM, vs Idaho, vs SAC. Most likely the first four.

That scenario would see Vigen going to the championship, then to the semis, then out in the second round after a bye, then 8-4 and possibly traveling in the first round with a team many foresaw as a contender for the championship to go along with a 1-3 record vs UM. Hot seat at the very least but most likely gone and definitely a lot of people saying he should be gone. There would have to be a reason beyond anything he could control to save his job.

I’m a bit confused. This year is 2024, right?

[kwcat]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

You're not wrong. I just really hate the gris.

As do I. As do I. FTG

I agree that that one game does not make the season. But if he gets caught flat-footed again like a deer in the headlights without his team prepared that’s a different deal. Still deserves some scrutiny

[TomCat88]

Does Vigen have to start dominating the gris to be considered a successful bobcat coach? 1-2 against the gris isn’t great especially compared to what Choate started to do.

At this point, Vigen has coached 10 fewer games than Choate did.

Vigen current record: 32-8
Choate final record: 28-22

Assuming Vigen doesn't have a 1-11 year this year, I feel pretty confident in calling him a successful Bobcat coach, regardless of what he does against the gris. Does that final regular season game mean a lot? Yes, yes it does. Should it be the one determining factor for success? IMO, no, no it should not.

Just my .02.

I was at the 2015 Cat-Griz game visiting from Portland and knew Ash was being let go by 9pm that night at the R-Bar from my group that included QB Club and former players. Prukop especially and the offense including Herbert, Sandland, and Newell willed that team on talent alone to wins in games where the defense was overwhelmed by average teams. Depth was awful and Choate had two rough seasons to start out. Read this board back then to see how some wanted him gone. Vigen inherited a great situation and frankly, the team is loaded this year and should compete for a national title. That’s a lot of pressure and 8-4 isn’t going to cut it again without a hot seat.

2025 was “MSU’s year” at the start of the 2023 season. That has come to fruition through today and probably until something drastic happens to change that.

2023 went better than expected (for me at least; a couple huge plays vs EW and NA helped).

2024 went about how everyone expected in the regular season. The exception being the defense looking much better than anticipated early. That got hopes up and when the defense struggled late it led to disappointment for a lot of fans.

If MSU goes 8-4 this season, it will be a major letdown. That scenario would likely include four losses to some combination of: at New Mexico, at Cal Poly, at EW, vs UM, vs Idaho, vs SAC. Most likely the first four.

That scenario would see Vigen going to the championship, then to the semis, then out in the second round after a bye, then 8-4 and possibly traveling in the first round with a team many foresaw as a contender for the championship to go along with a 1-3 record vs UM. Hot seat at the very least but most likely gone and definitely a lot of people saying he should be gone. There would have to be a reason beyond anything he could control to save his job.

I’m a bit confused. This year is 2024, right?

It's the year 2024, but it's currently the 2025 season.

[CatBot]

Last year I could easily see 3 regular season losses on the schedule at this same point: SDSU, Idaho or SAC (but not both), and dUMb. You always hope to exceed expectations and last year was disappointing, but I wasn't surprised by the result. Getting the 9 seed in the for the 3rd straight year was total garbage from the committee. Thankfully that piece has been fixed with 16 total seeds.

This year I simply don't see the same potential losses on the schedule. Maybe the Lobos? Maybe dUMb? Maybe one of either UI or SAC again? I doubt it in all cases. If we go 8-4 with this year with this schedule, it would be a severe disappointment and should be considered a VERY bad season.

If we lose to dUMb at home and go 8-4 with an early playoff loss, I would expect to hear plenty of rumblings from the fan base. Not from me mind you, but plenty from others.