Bobcats eat their young!

[iaafan]

Montana kids have jilted MSU more times that MSU has jilted MT kids. I know of several MT players who were offered full rides at MSU and turned it down to walk on at UM in the mid 90s. That's their right.

A player (Carlson) verballed to MSU then said, Nah, I'll go to UM instead. That meant MSU had a scholarship tied up with him, while other players were signing elsewhere, so not only didn't MSU get him, it didn't get a number of other players that went elsewhere while he was jerking Kramer's chain. So I guess I don't hold all Montana kids in high esteem just because they are from Montana. You could wonder if that wasn't the plan all along, since Carlson was related to a bunch of other UM players from past years. But I haven't seen anyone jump all over this kid.

[vike_king]

Hmmm. What are the sources for this speculation again????

[iaafan]

Hmmm. What are the sources for this speculation again????

If you're asking about Carlson, then you must've taken an interest in CAtGriz things less than a year ago. That was in the newspapers, but I'm not going to go look for the link.
As for the other, that's just what a player told me I asked him if what I heard was true. He said, yes, I rolled the dice and walked on at UM. He was offered a full at MSU by Hysell and didn't take it. Hard to fathom. He did earn a full ride at UM later on.

[ChiOCat]

Offers can be taken off the table at any time. He should have taken it while it was on the table. I would still love to see him play for the Cats, and receive his Chemical Engineering degree, as we are the only school in the state that offers his degree program.

I went through 5 years with Neal Smith trying to balance Chem E and football. Not easy, even for a very bright kid. I wouldn't wish that on anyone!

[vike_king]

Hmmm. What are the sources for this speculation again????

If you're asking about Carlson, then you must've taken an interest in CAtGriz things less than a year ago. That was in the newspapers, but I'm not going to go look for the link.
As for the other, that's just what a player told me I asked him if what I heard was true. He said, yes, I rolled the dice and walked on at UM. He was offered a full at MSU by Hysell and didn't take it. Hard to fathom. He did earn a full ride at UM later on.

No, the speculation about Larson?

[iaafan]

Hmmm. What are the sources for this speculation again????

If you're asking about Carlson, then you must've taken an interest in CAtGriz things less than a year ago. That was in the newspapers, but I'm not going to go look for the link.
As for the other, that's just what a player told me I asked him if what I heard was true. He said, yes, I rolled the dice and walked on at UM. He was offered a full at MSU by Hysell and didn't take it. Hard to fathom. He did earn a full ride at UM later on.

No, the speculation about Larson?

I'm sorry I thought you were asking me.

[vike_king]

Hmmm. What are the sources for this speculation again????

If you're asking about Carlson, then you must've taken an interest in CAtGriz things less than a year ago. That was in the newspapers, but I'm not going to go look for the link.
As for the other, that's just what a player told me I asked him if what I heard was true. He said, yes, I rolled the dice and walked on at UM. He was offered a full at MSU by Hysell and didn't take it. Hard to fathom. He did earn a full ride at UM later on.

No, the speculation about Larson?

I'm sorry I thought you were asking me.

My bad IAA, I should have reference the original post to this thread.

[m11m]

First of all, Larson was not sitting around waiting for the best offer. Coach K didn't ask for a verbal, didn't want a verbal and never gave him anything to sign. I heard they said the home visit didn't go very well, but don't know what that was based on. His brother had just arrived home from Billings after being in a pretty bad accident right before they came to his house, so I'm sure that was a little bit of a distraction, but they can't hold that against him. How do you judge a kid's athletic ability by sitting in his living room visiting with him anyway! They were just using that as an excuse. I think they just threw out that offer to keep him interested until they got their commitments from the other out of state recruits they were looking at and when they came through, Larson was out. So you can't blame this on Larson playing any game. I think that is a pretty rotten thing to do to a kid and they took advantage of him and his good nature. It's an ugly business and Larson learned that first hand. Kudos to the school that gets him.

[iaafan]

Why do I get the feeling that you're just trying to find a way to put Kramer and MSU football in a bad light and are emotionally attached with all this? This is just the nature of the business. It sounds like someone thinks Larson is a better player than any recruiter so far thinks he is. This is called a disconnect. Maybe Larson is great and the coaches are wrong or maybe not, there's no way of knowing at this point. But this happens thousands of times across America. "I'm the best player on the team, but the coach is too stupid to put me in the game."

Maybe Larson just isn't I-AA material or maybe he just isn't a good fit (football-wise) or there's a personality conflict. There could be any number of good reasons why he hasn't verballed anywhere yet. What you think is of little consequence in this situation.

All we know for sure is that Larson wants to get a scholarship somewhere and he wants to study chemical engineering. I have a hard time believing Kramer or any college coach from any school has mistreated him in any way. They're all just conducting their business. Kudos to him 'IF' he gets a scholarship somewhere that he can study his desired coursework.

[Helcat72]

How many good student are there out there who would like to study Chem E and are beating the brush to find grants, scholarships and loans to make their dream come true.

If an athlete gets a greyshirt offer from one school, and interest and a walk-on offer from another school I think the handwriting is on the wall that recruiters at that level (1-AA) feel that that is his value level at this point. if he wants to play 1-AA ball he needs to verbal to one of these schools and prove himself.

If Larson was given an offer of possible money, and told to wait to see if it was going to be available, then he had to know that it was possible that it was not going to be available. At that point he should have known that he should look elsewhere or take his chances that he could earn a scholarship later.

The fact that the coaches felt the home visit did not go well gives some insight that there was some misunderstanding or dissatisfaction about what they were offering.

Misunderstanding is unfortunate however he had never gone through recruitment before. Maybe he needed to ask someone who had, to find out the ins and outs of it. Dissatisfaction is simply a matter of overestimating his worth to someone who has already classified him in their minds.

[MSUCATFAN]

How much pressure do you think there is for Michigan coaches to get Michigan palyers, or Penn State Coaches to get Pennsylvania players? Like RTB posted this is a business we need to get the best players possible. As for the boosters.... I am pretty sure the money will keep coming in when we start winning some NC games. Or will they stop with the help when we win with fewer MT. kids. I don't think so.. Boosters want results and the results are starting to come.

[Robcat]

As I understand it, MSU did not blow Larsen off, rather it was Larsen that blew off the Cats. Kramer made the right decision.

[083190]

Apparently when Kramer visited, Larson appeared disinterested or distracted. It seems that the game on TV was more important than showing respect for the person offering a college opportunity.

[iaafan]

Whether that's true or not, it wouldn't be the first time. Whatever the case there needs to be a mutual respect from the parties involved. A coach shouldn't show up with a six-pack of Blatz to split with parents and flirt the kid's mom, and the kid shouldn't be making out with his girlfriend while the coach talks to him. Is this asking too much?

[GrizinWashington]

How much pressure do you think there is for Michigan coaches to get Michigan palyers, or Penn State Coaches to get Pennsylvania players? Like RTB posted this is a business we need to get the best players possible. As for the boosters.... I am pretty sure the money will keep coming in when we start winning some NC games. Or will they stop with the help when we win with fewer MT. kids. I don't think so.. Boosters want results and the results are starting to come.

I can't speak to Michigan or Penn State, but I can tell you there is a lot of pressure for Washington coaches to get local kids. To think that boosters don't want kids from their state is short-sighted. Trust me, it's big news in Seattle when a top Wahington prospect goes out of state. Yes, winning is important. But you won't have nearly the booster support after a NC if you're only Montanan is the water boy.

[iaafan]

How much pressure do you think there is for Michigan coaches to get Michigan palyers, or Penn State Coaches to get Pennsylvania players? Like RTB posted this is a business we need to get the best players possible. As for the boosters.... I am pretty sure the money will keep coming in when we start winning some NC games. Or will they stop with the help when we win with fewer MT. kids. I don't think so.. Boosters want results and the results are starting to come.

I can't speak to Michigan or Penn State, but I can tell you there is a lot of pressure for Washington coaches to get local kids. To think that boosters don't want kids from their state is short-sighted. Trust me, it's big news in Seattle when a top Wahington prospect goes out of state. Yes, winning is important. But you won't have nearly the booster support after a NC if you're only Montanan is the water boy.

In Montana it's GOOD news when one of our players goes out of state. We're glad to see anyone get a scholarship anywhere, especially to a big D-IA school. So there's a big difference. A few years ago people from Helena were pretty stoked about a guy by the name of Greg Carothers, who played for the University of Washington.
Here in Montana, the trend for the past 20 years is for the best players (maybe 1-2 a year at most) to go to big I-A programs. The majority of the next tier of good players goes to UM, while a few of those go to MSU. MSU and UM then take a batch of in-state 'tweeners' (for lack of a better word) as walkons, preferred walk-ons and partials. The rest of our Montana kids go to Frontier schools. A small portion of players from Montana got to other D-IAA programs or lower division schools out of state.
So players not good enough to play at UM and MSU still play in Montana and I'd say Montana's retention of in-state players is as good as any state.
MSU can only continue to improve it's team, fan base and facilities in hopes of attracting more quality in-state players. Most fans here are savvy enough to understand the situation regarding in-state recruiting in terms of how they're split between UM and MSU. However, there are still quite a few that don't quite get it.
There are plenty of Montana kids on the UM and MSU rosters. I think UM has about 10-15 more than MSU, but that only stands to reason. MSU and UM are not going to take Montana kids just for the sake of taking Montana kids.
Two of MSU's best players on defense were Montana guys (Marudus and Mollohan). In fact, Mollohan was a team captain. MSU and UM both have nice cross sections of players from around the western US, which is very good for the Montana players to be exposed to players from different lifestyles and cultures. I think we can all agree that's a good thing in this day and age.

[GrizinWashington]

Agree with everything in your post, IAAfan.

[SteelheadBum]

GW,

Serious questions:

1. So does UDub get most of their players from Washington or California??

2. Which PAC 10 teams and WAC teams are not dominated by kids from California?

3. What did Barry Switzer mean when he said, " the key for Oklahoma to always beat Nebraska is to RAID Texas"? (the High Schools not the prisons...they became criminals after they went to OU ).

4. Do Texas kids dominate the Big 12? Florida kids the SEC?

5. Which states besides Montana, California, Florida & Texas produce the best football players?

End of test.

[vike_king]

Just heard the cats blew Jeff Larson off last night. They told him they signed recruits from Hawaii, Washington & Portland (ALL OUT OF STATERS!) and didn't have any money for him now. This is after they offered him money at the home visit in December. That's good for the Griz! Maybe he'll decide to take their Grayshirt offer now. Kramer just keeps screwing the Montana boys. When are the Montana Boosters going to get it and start taking care of their own instead of letting the Cat Coaches chew them up and spit them out!

Back to my original question....From whom did you hear that the offer was taken off the table. I spoke to an employee in Cut Bank schools yesterday who said he was still very interested in MSU. Speculation on e-griz doesn't count.

[Platinumcat]

Larson wasn't sitting around to see who gave him the best offer. He was waiting to see exactly what MSU had decided to offer and from what I hear he would have taken it. They told him it would be partial, but maybe a full. They weren't in any hurry for him to make us his mind and told him they wanted to take it slow and would be back in touch. When you tell a kid you are going to offer him at least a partial, they should have at least offered him a partial. They just flat out lied to him. And just because an athlete is from out of state doesn't make him any better than a Montana athlete either. How can you tell how good they are until you give them a chance! Anyone out there being recruited by the Cats, don't believe a word they say! Larson will be successful wherever he decides to go and I wish him all the best. He was dealt a dirty deal from the Cats!

Actually m11m that's exactly what he did. One of my partners at work is an ex Bobcat and a very large booster. He knows all of the football coaches personally and regularly has lunch with them. The Monday after McEndoo got back from the Montana recruiting loop (which included going to Larson's house with). During that lunch, McEndoo told my partner that the house visit with Larson was the worst that he had ever been treated. He said that Larson ignored the coaches the entire time and just sat there and watched tv.

I was amazed to hear this because I was really hoping that Larson would come here. But, you've got to lie in the bed you make; and he pretty much screwed the pooch on any full scholarship that night.

I've witheld this information for some time now because I didn't see it as pertinent to any discussions. But, for you to lambast the coaches for not going after in state kids is incorrect and you should better educate yourself the next time you do it.