Basketball against Carroll

spider · Post by **spider** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:45 pm

It is time for MSU to face the facts. Larry K. is going to turn the Griz into a great team. I wouldn't be surprised if they are someday as good as Gonzaga (if Krystowiak stays around). If MSU doesn't get tired of mediocrity in a hurry, we will once again fall 20 years behind the Griz, except this time in basketball. We will be left wondering, "Golly gee willickers, what happened? I just don't get it."

Since I know it is coming........I really hate it when people say that fans should not comment on coaching! Isn't that our right? We, after all, pay money to go to the games, give money in support of MSU, and in an indirect way contribute to the coach's salary. Coaches know when they enter the profession they are held far more accountable than most other professions as a result of them being in the public spotlight. They chose the profession, they should be able to deal with the criticisms. It comes with the territory.

Also, it drives me crazy when people say that a fan cannot comment on coaching because they don't know enough about the sport. What? All I really need to know is that we have more L's than W's! Isn't the point of sports to win? Aren't most professions judged by performance? If I showed up to work and only did my job with a 50% (or less) success rate, I probably wouldn't have a job! If I was a student and only got 50% (or less) of my questions right, I would fail! It's called accountability!!!! If MSU doesn't start holding some feet to the fire, we will be mired in mediocrity for many years to come.

longhorn_22 · Post by **longhorn_22** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:49 pm

Another thing I'd like to add is the the terrible job of referring. I cannot believe that technical foul against Casey Durham. Complete bullsh*t. They called stupid fouls and makeup calls all game long. I am getting so tired of this. NCAA, BSC, find some new refs. PLEASE, for the love of God.

Post by **rtb** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:50 pm

spider wrote:It is time for MSU to face the facts. Larry K. is going to turn the Griz into a great team. I wouldn't be surprised if they are someday as good as Gonzaga (if Krystowiak stays around). If MSU doesn't get tired of mediocrity in a hurry, we will once again fall 20 years behind the Griz, except this time in basketball. We will be left wondering, "Golly gee willickers, what happened? I just don't get it."

Since I know it is coming........I really hate it when people say that fans should not comment on coaching! Isn't that our right? We, after all, pay money to go to the games, give money in support of MSU, and in an indirect way contribute to the coach's salary. Coaches know when they enter the profession they are held far more accountable than most other professions as a result of them being in the public spotlight. They chose the profession, they should be able to deal with the criticisms. It comes with the territory.

Also, it drives me crazy when people say that a fan cannot comment on coaching because they don't enough about the sport. What? All I really need to know is that we have more L's than W's! Isn't the point of sports to win? Aren't most professions judged by performance? If I showed up to work and only did my job with a 50% (or less) success rate, I probably wouldn't have a job! If I was a student and only got 50% (or less) of my questions right, I would fail! It's called accountability!!!! If MSU doesn't start holding some feet to the fire, we will be mired in mediocrity for many years to come.

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:57 pm

spider wrote:It is time for MSU to face the facts. Larry K. is going to turn the Griz into a great team. I wouldn't be surprised if they are someday as good as Gonzaga (if Krystowiak stays around). If MSU doesn't get tired of mediocrity in a hurry, we will once again fall 20 years behind the Griz, except this time in basketball. We will be left wondering, "Golly gee willickers, what happened? I just don't get it."

Since I know it is coming........I really hate it when people say that fans should not comment on coaching! Isn't that our right? We, after all, pay money to go to the games, give money in support of MSU, and in an indirect way contribute to the coach's salary. Coaches know when they enter the profession they are held far more accountable than most other professions as a result of them being in the public spotlight. They chose the profession, they should be able to deal with the criticisms. It comes with the territory.

Also, it drives me crazy when people say that a fan cannot comment on coaching because they don't enough about the sport. What? All I really need to know is that we have more L's than W's! Isn't the point of sports to win? Aren't most professions judged by performance? If I showed up to work and only did my job with a 50% (or less) success rate, I probably wouldn't have a job! If I was a student and only got 50% (or less) of my questions right, I would fail! It's called accountability!!!! If MSU doesn't start holding some feet to the fire, we will be mired in mediocrity for many years to come.

Spider, I think maybe Krysko has already turned UM into a great team. They're not at GU's level yet, obviously, but they are very, very good already, and they're also very young.

And this may sound like smack, but it really isn't meant to be: Seriously, what is wrong with MSU? On paper, this looks like a talented bunch. I'm not normally one to blame coaching, but this would appear to be one of two issues: Either the staff doesn't have a good program for them, or they aren't getting enough out of them, or the players just aren't performing. Two of those 3 options directly relate to coaching. I'm just not sure which is the actual problem.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:17 pm

GrizinWashington wrote: Seriously, what is wrong with MSU? On paper, this looks like a talented bunch.

Maybe too many players that are too similar? Peyton Manning might be a great football player-but how would the Colts do with 4 or 5 Peyton Mannings? Manning at running back, Manning at wide receiver, Manning at offensive guard...obviously it wouldn't work. On this MSU team we have Miller, Jefferson, Edmonds, Durham, Holmes. All good players, but maybe we're overloaded in the quick undersized guard position? Durham often has three of these guys on the court with one playing small forward, and another playing swingman-on other teams those positions are occupied by 6'4" type guys who can hit the outside shot, but who can also postup a smaller player, go inside and score, and get a rebound. I don't know-that's just one theory.

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:17 pm

Hats off to Carroll for playing one hell of a game. They almost caught the Bobcats napping, but a win is a win. Carroll showed why they are a national championship contender. I hope this is a wake-up call for the Cats. They played relatively well, but those Carroll players played out of their minds. Bobcats, you almost lost this one to a team three classifications below you on your home court. I hope that this will get the Cats pumped for Saturday's game at Wisconsin-Green Bay. Even though this was not the best of performances, a game winner can get a team going.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:18 pm

There is no way to spin this game as anything but a complete disaster. I'm not going to say too much right now because I am PISSED, but let's just say that at least this team won't get our hopes up with a fast start only to fade off at the end of the season again...

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:23 pm

1) while sinan guler might have a game that good rarly, he is that good
2) did the cats push around #42*RG*?

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:23 pm

GrizinWashington wrote:Spider, I think maybe Krysko has already turned UM into a great team. They're not at GU's level yet, obviously, but they are very, very good already, and they're also very young.

You have to be kidding me. Are you seriously calling UM a "great team"??? I have all the respect in the world for Krystko, I think he is an absolutely stellar coach and is turning things around at UM in a great big hurry. That said, no way in hell is UM a great team. Why, because they beat a terrible Stanford team in Missoula? The same Stanford team that went and lost to 0-4 UC Davis? Now, I will freely admit that any win over a Pac-10 team is a good win and is something to be proud of, but I certainly don't think I'd start booking Sweet 16 tickets just yet. Unfortunately for UM (and good for us Cats), I don't think Krystko will stick around Missoula for too much longer.

whitetrashgriz · Post by **whitetrashgriz** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:43 pm

blgscats wrote:MSU-B was being aired in Billings, so we were trying to listen to the game over the internet, not good with a dial-up. What was the final score? I would like to think Durham would wake up soon!! If he is going to let his son shoot 3's maybe he should teach him how to make em.

well, he made half of them including a huge one so although your point is taken, it's not valid. unless you will only accept better than 50%.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:06 am

First of all, for all the (durham) haters in the house, chill.

EDIT BY MODERATOR:NO PERSONAL ATTACKS PLEASE

Third, it is early in the season. I have been very critical of this team so far, however, having watched the game I have a few thoughts:

1) We trailed, but were able to keep composed and controlled out there on the court.

2) Notice, their team had 3 big scorers, 27, 21, and 10 pts for 3 of their players. We had not one person over 16 points. Every person that played for us scored, and most scored more than 6 points. This was a team win.

3) We had much better shot selection this game. We were patient on offense, at least more so than in previous games. Yes, we shot a lot of threes, but we made alot of threes (12-21, 57/1%), and most were good looks. I remember only 2 or 3 times we came down the floor and chucked up an ill-advised three. We actually worked the offense this game and played within our abilities.

4) We were better on free throws. Missed some front ends of 1-1's, but overall effective. (14-18, 77.8 %)

5) Carrol played a hell of a game. For those of you who were not there, you missed a great college basketball game. If that team can play that way for the rest of the year, they will again go deep in the NAIA tournament. They have 5 seniors, 2 of them 5th year seniors. They are an experienced (NAIA final four last year), patient, and (despite what anyone might say) well coached team. They did not back down one bit. I still can't beleive how scrappy that team is.

6) We outrebounded (28-22), outshot (55.3% to 51.9%, 57.1% to 44% on 3's), and outscored this team. We did NOT out-hustle this team, and we had 9 turnovers in the first half, 15 for the game. Not terrible, but still room for improvement.

7) Yet again, fully disappointed with the Big Sky officiating crew. I saw fouls on both teams that weren't called, and others that were that should not have been called. Durham's techincal was one that immediately comes to mind. How is it that a player that ends up on the sideline, injured (lying face down), can get a techincal foul, especially when the ref that called the tech was 30 feet away from the action. Questionable to say the least. He also called the tech. about 1 second after he called the inital blocking foul.

8 ) Marvin had a terrible game offensively (1-6 from the floor). He did pull down 11 rebounds.

Am I disapponted we didn't beat an NAIA team by more points? Absolutely. However, this team showed signs of improvement. I will reiterate: it is still early in the season.

Note: Edited to add post game numbers.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:16 am

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote: Seriously, what is wrong with MSU? On paper, this looks like a talented bunch.
Maybe too many players that are too similar? Peyton Manning might be a great football player-but how would the Colts do with 4 or 5 Peyton Mannings? Manning at running back, Manning at wide receiver, Manning at offensive guard...obviously it wouldn't work. On this MSU team we have Miller, Jefferson, Edmonds, Durham, Holmes. All good players, but maybe we're overloaded in the quick undersized guard position? Durham often has three of these guys on the court with one playing small forward, and another playing swingman-on other teams those positions are occupied by 6'4" type guys who can hit the outside shot, but who can also postup a smaller player, go inside and score, and get a rebound. I don't know-that's just one theory.

(winces) Yeah, I have thought of that too. I would really like to see just 2 guards out on the floor, not 3. We have enough big men to do it. Al and Ted to rotate, Pratt an Moss to rotate, and Diss and Durr to rotate, with any combination of any of these three at any time.

I just don't see the need for 3 guards out on the floor at any time, unless it is late in the game for FT shooting purposes. The two deep for our guards should be Jefferson then Edmonds, and Miller then Holmes, with Duham getting about equal playing time as Holmes. I think Holmes is the better passer and ball handler of the two.

longhorn_22 · Post by **longhorn_22** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:17 am

http://msubobcats.com/news.php?sid=h&nid=1244

In this article it says that this game was an exhibition game for Carroll. How? They are 11 games into the season and it wasn't for us. What's up with that?

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:20 am

I'd like to say again that it's early in the season. The Cats usually start playing their best ball just after Christmas, usually at the Holiday Stores Classic. The Cats' best basketball will come, soon. So we just need to be patient.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:28 am

longhorn_22 wrote:http://msubobcats.com/news.php?sid=h&nid=1244

In this article it says that this game was an exhibition game for Carroll. How? They are 11 games into the season and it wasn't for us. What's up with that?

Basically, It wouldn't count against them if they lost, as it was an out of division game, at least thats what I got out of it. Same for us if we won, It wouldn't count as a win.

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:31 am

Is it me, or do you all sound like jizz fans doing all this b*tching and moaning. Durham is Bobcat Basketball- like it or not. He bleeds blue and gold and loves this University. Before you all go jumping ship, give the man a chance. Mick will go when it is time to go. Until then he is the coach and rather than talking like the jizz talk about their coaches, let's think positively. This is a talented bunch of players with a great coaching staff. Durham's players love Durham, for the most part, and he has a deep concern to see his team not only succeed on the court, but off the court too. He turns his teams into "families". I, personally, think Mick is an outstanding coach and will turn the team around. If any of you think you could do better, grab your whistle and go plead your case to Peter Fields. Cats will do well this year and you will all be jumping back on by the end. I will remain on board and support Mick, his staff, and players.

By-the-way, The GU comment was absolutely ridiculous. I am going to the GUvs. WSU game on Thurs. night and I assure you I will see a better team than that of UM.

longhorn_22 · Post by **longhorn_22** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:31 am

grizzh8r wrote:
longhorn_22 wrote:http://msubobcats.com/news.php?sid=h&nid=1244

In this article it says that this game was an exhibition game for Carroll. How? They are 11 games into the season and it wasn't for us. What's up with that?
Basically, It wouldn't count against them if they lost, as it was an out of division game, at least thats what I got out of it. Same for us if we won, It wouldn't count as a win.

It did count as a win though. I just don't get it.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:49 am

wbtfg wrote:Just got back from the game. I'm not exactly sure how it was so close. We out shot them, out rebounded them, and I think we probably won the turnover battle.

Defensively we played pretty well...Carroll was just playing lights out on offense.

As for our offense, it is clear to me that our team is currently lacking a floor leader. Carroll had a great leader (guy from Turkey) and good role players. It seems like we have a court full of very good role players w/o a floor general. I think this is a big reason for a lot of our turnovers and confusion on offense.

We actually shot the ball pretty well...over 50% for FGs as well as from behind the arc

The only thing that they killed us on was hustle. They got every loose ball, and a lot of rebounds. We came out fired up, and went up by about 12 early, then we put it in cruise control until about the last 2 minutes or so when we were down by five.

If we can somehow figure out how to get fired up stay focused for 40 minutes we will be a very good team....

Now, let the doom and gloom and "Fire Mick" comments continue.

I actually got the feeling that we have a lot of ex-HS and JC stars that don't know what this team expects of them whether it's being role players, leaders, or main men..or at least they don't know where they fit into the team concept.

Moss looks like he's not comfortable, Dissly looks like he's trying to be a role player when he should be a leader, Jefferson, Durham and Miller are the only ones that seem to know who they are and what they need to do. Al Beye is a center that gets backed down regularly and is now getting fouls called where he got blocks last year. I thought dissly was going to take over the game at one time in the first half ...got called for a travel on a dunk...and dissappeared!

Is Ted Morris a center? Or is he whatever Mick makes big men into... "@%$&^%$" Personally I think both Morris and Moss are caught in between...and don't have an identity!

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:50 am

longhorn_22 wrote:It did count as a win though. I just don't get it.

Not in the post season, though. For the tournament seedings, wins over lower division opponents are not counted.

CATS2000 · Post by **CATS2000** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:58 am

GrizinWashington wrote:
spider wrote:Spider, I think maybe Krysko has already turned UM into a great team. They're not at GU's level yet, obviously, but they are very, very good already, and they're also very young.

LOL @ trying to compare a Big Sky conference team to Gonzaga... Even trying to compare them 10 years from now...

What is the lowest seed a Big Sky conference team has got in the tournament in the last 15 years or so???