Basketball Job Security

eagle43 · Post by **eagle43** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:34 pm

Could somebody please explain to me why the hell he plays Casey Durham(his son, hmm...I wonder if there's a connection there) so fricken much? All the kid does is chuck up three after three. I'm not trying to say Casey's a bad kid, I'm sure he's a high quality kid, but he's just not good enough to play as much as he does.

NoGriz · Post by **NoGriz** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:38 pm

IrishBobcat wrote:Durham has been shepherd of the BEST basketball program in the big sky conference. During his tenure he has built and continued a fine tradition of fielding competitive teams. The only other team that has a decent program during his tenure is Weber.

Those of you looking for his head are not thinking logically.

Who were the better coaches in the league during his time and where are they now. (hint: one is at UCLA)

Point is, the continuity is a good... no GREAT thing for a Big Sky team. It is a luxury that some of us take for granted.

Gotta chime in on the comment that MSU is the BEST basketball program in the Big Sky Conference. Have you been watching the same program that I've been watching during Mick's tenure? MSU has been to the NCAA's just once in 16 years and more times than not has finished in the bottom half of the league. Below are some stats I posted at the end of last season but I believe everyone was sick of the "fire Mick" discussions so there wasn't much traffic on the subject.

I pulled these numbers out of the media guide and didn't take the time to double-check since the process was tedious but I'm confident the numbers are accurate within an acceptable margin of error.

Overall road record: 65-111
Conference road record: 38-77
Overall conference record: 112-98
Conference tourney: 6-8
Record in games decided by 5 or less: 48-48
Cat/Griz: 15-19
Final regular season conference standings: 7th 5 times, 6th twice, 5th once, 4th twice, 3rd 3 times, 2nd once, 1st twice
Overall record: 231-198
Overall record when you subtract the 36-0 record in preseason games vs NAIA teams from the Frontier Conference: 195-198

I know the Big Sky is down but it's really an awful league if the team with the stats above is the best program in the conference over the last 16 years. Given our facilities, quality of university, booster support, attendance, etc. I agree that MSU SHOULD BE consistently one of the best programs in the conference but 16 years of history does not show that as the case.

cats22 · Post by **cats22** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:07 am

I think that if you guys get your way and he is gone. You'll lose in recruiting. Someone brought up the fact that the womens team is in such a mess. They lose out on every recruit because they have no stability. If Mick were gone I think that it would really hurt recruiting. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Edwards has been up in Bozeman quite a bit. And Howard's dad and Mick are pretty good buddies. I can almost guarantee there is two guys who would change the program around if they came. But if Mick is canned, I would doubt that Howard would become a cat. Sure they've started out a little slow. Well so did Gonzaga and look what they did this week. They struggled against Idaho who should've lost to Carroll. Then they go and light up the Maui Invite. Come on People... 3 games ago all of you were saying how great we were. Have some Consistency.

whitetrashgriz · Post by **whitetrashgriz** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:40 am

mslacatfan wrote:DURHAM SUCKS!!!!!!!!!! anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. Thats all I have to say about that.

im an idiot

BobCatFan · Post by **BobCatFan** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:12 am

cats22 wrote:I think that if you guys get your way and he is gone. You'll lose in recruiting. Someone brought up the fact that the womens team is in such a mess. They lose out on every recruit because they have no stability. If Mick were gone I think that it would really hurt recruiting. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Edwards has been up in Bozeman quite a bit. And Howard's dad and Mick are pretty good buddies. I can almost guarantee there is two guys who would change the program around if they came. But if Mick is canned, I would doubt that Howard would become a cat. Sure they've started out a little slow. Well so did Gonzaga and look what they did this week. They struggled against Idaho who should've lost to Carroll. Then they go and light up the Maui Invite. Come on People... 3 games ago all of you were saying how great we were. Have some Consistency.

This would be a good thing. We need to find better players. Montana only produces one or two D-1 players each year. Mostly guards or small fowards. I believe the Cats will always have a chance at getting the in state kids, but we need a new staff that can land some top talent from other parts of the US and the world. The Griz men's program has been a revolving door for coaches and I do not see them missing out on the instate kids.The MSU womens program is a mess. The last two coaches have left a scare on the MSU program. The Griz have a great womans coach who has been happy to stay in Missoula. Mick is not a great coach and he is not willing to leave. I wonder why. Could it be that nobody would hire him as a head coach?

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:04 pm

cats22 wrote:I think that if you guys get your way and he is gone. You'll lose in recruiting. Someone brought up the fact that the womens team is in such a mess. They lose out on every recruit because they have no stability. If Mick were gone I think that it would really hurt recruiting. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Edwards has been up in Bozeman quite a bit. And Howard's dad and Mick are pretty good buddies. I can almost guarantee there is two guys who would change the program around if they came. But if Mick is canned, I would doubt that Howard would become a cat. Sure they've started out a little slow. Well so did Gonzaga and look what they did this week. They struggled against Idaho who should've lost to Carroll. Then they go and light up the Maui Invite. Come on People... 3 games ago all of you were saying how great we were. Have some Consistency.

I see you read my post on the other board and I agree. Stabililty is huge for a program and that is one of the assets that MSU has going for it. I'll say here, as I've already said, that I am a Durham supporter and I would not be happy if he was dismissed for no good reason. As I see it right now, the program is headed in a very good direction with many wins to come, considering that Dissly will be here this season and next and the recruits coming in. This is a time to be positive about basketball and I can see many good things coming.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:16 pm

eagle43 wrote:Could somebody please explain to me why the hell he plays Casey Durham(his son, hmm...I wonder if there's a connection there) so fricken much? All the kid does is chuck up three after three. I'm not trying to say Casey's a bad kid, I'm sure he's a high quality kid, but he's just not good enough to play as much as he does.

Because of his defensive tenacity. He is one of our better defenders, and has proven he can get into players heads, and make them lose their cool (see UM's Matt Martin last year). I do, however, agree with the chuck up threes comment. However, if todays game was any indication, that has been addressed. I think he only attempted 3 (?) threes, and made 1.

EDIT:

Looking at his stats for the year, He has attempted 14 threes and made 3, not including tonights game.... Ugh.

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:25 pm

Fat Cat wrote:

I agree bozbobcat. I really like Mick and I take pride in the fact we do not have a revolving door in our men's BB program.

How do you define "revolving door"? Before the NCAA mercifully revised the scholarship departure rules, the Bobcats were barely fielding a full roster because of all of the defections from the program.

One NCAA tournament appearance in how many years?

I've been as hard on Mick as anyone here (and the "old" board as well), and I am willing to see how this year pans out, but let's just say the start of the season hasn't exactly inspired confidence in any of the fans.

eagle43 · Post by **eagle43** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:05 pm

grizzh8r wrote:
eagle43 wrote:Could somebody please explain to me why the hell he plays Casey Durham(his son, hmm...I wonder if there's a connection there) so fricken much? All the kid does is chuck up three after three. I'm not trying to say Casey's a bad kid, I'm sure he's a high quality kid, but he's just not good enough to play as much as he does.
Because of his defensive tenacity. He is one of our better defenders, and has proven he can get into players heads, and make them lose their cool (see UM's Matt Martin last year). I do, however, agree with the chuck up threes comment. However, if todays game was any indication, that has been addressed. I think he only attempted 3 (?) threes, and made 1.

EDIT:

Looking at his stats for the year, He has attempted 14 threes and made 3, not including tonights game.... Ugh.

Thanks, I didn't realize he was this good at defense, but I still wish he would just shoot less and let the offensive game come to him. And if he keeps on playing defense, he'll get some fastbreak layups because good defense will lead to offense.

CATS2000 · Post by **CATS2000** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:18 am

eagle43 wrote:
grizzh8r wrote:
eagle43 wrote:Could somebody please explain to me why the hell he plays Casey Durham(his son, hmm...I wonder if there's a connection there) so fricken much? All the kid does is chuck up three after three. I'm not trying to say Casey's a bad kid, I'm sure he's a high quality kid, but he's just not good enough to play as much as he does.
Because of his defensive tenacity. He is one of our better defenders, and has proven he can get into players heads, and make them lose their cool (see UM's Matt Martin last year). I do, however, agree with the chuck up threes comment. However, if todays game was any indication, that has been addressed. I think he only attempted 3 (?) threes, and made 1.

EDIT:

Looking at his stats for the year, He has attempted 14 threes and made 3, not including tonights game.... Ugh.
Thanks, I didn't realize he was this good at defense, but I still wish he would just shoot less and let the offensive game come to him. And if he keeps on playing defense, he'll get some fastbreak layups because good defense will lead to offense.

Yeah he does play some really good D at times and that's what gets him his minutes. That montana game last year was a great example - he made Martin offensively foul him twice and he hit a few treys in that game as well I believe.

His offense it a little suspect at times but he is asked this year to run the point a little more than last year as well.

4everacatfan · Post by **4everacatfan** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:42 pm

BobCatFan wrote:
cats22 wrote:I think that if you guys get your way and he is gone. You'll lose in recruiting. Someone brought up the fact that the womens team is in such a mess. They lose out on every recruit because they have no stability. If Mick were gone I think that it would really hurt recruiting. I don't know if anyone has noticed, but Edwards has been up in Bozeman quite a bit. And Howard's dad and Mick are pretty good buddies. I can almost guarantee there is two guys who would change the program around if they came. But if Mick is canned, I would doubt that Howard would become a cat. Sure they've started out a little slow. Well so did Gonzaga and look what they did this week. They struggled against Idaho who should've lost to Carroll. Then they go and light up the Maui Invite. Come on People... 3 games ago all of you were saying how great we were. Have some Consistency.
This would be a good thing. We need to find better players. Montana only produces one or two D-1 players each year. Mostly guards or small fowards. I believe the Cats will always have a chance at getting the in state kids, but we need a new staff that can land some top talent from other parts of the US and the world. The Griz men's program has been a revolving door for coaches and I do not see them missing out on the instate kids.The MSU womens program is a mess. The last two coaches have left a scare on the MSU program. The Griz have a great womans coach who has been happy to stay in Missoula. Mick is not a great coach and he is not willing to leave. I wonder why. Could it be that nobody would hire him as a head coach?

We do not want to lose either of these two recruits Edwards is 6'9" strong post player Howard 6'7" plays the 3, and four spot very well. I think it is great that Mick is talking to these kids they are both juniors and could be big players for MSU. Mick is a great coach that had a bad road trip to start the season. I don't know how much high school basketball you watch but if the Cats have the inside track on these two kids kudos. Because I think both had good enough summers to get some out of state programs looking.