Not too long ago...

tetoncat · Post by **tetoncat** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:26 pm

Cat Pride, all Kramer has done is lead us to 2 BSC championships and playoff appearances. Much more than anything in the last 20 years. We are also at record high levels of attendance and fundraising. I am not saying he is not accountable but he needs to make adjustments. I am sure he will not be happy if we do not make the playoffs and will be looking at how to change that. One way is to make changes at the assistant levels to try to get higher production.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:42 pm

I definitely dont question the many many great things Kramer has done for the football program. Despite his overall record, he has turned around this program and increased the interest and cash flow in the fan based exponentially.

Problem is, Kramer has never won more than 7 games in his tenure here. If you take out his 0-11 season, Kramer is merely 19-18 not counting this season. That is the definition of mediocrity, and I want more out of this program than mediocrity! If Kramer cant get it done with this team, I think something is seriously wrong. Something that changing a few assistants simply wont correct.

If you cant win with guys like Lulay, Mollohan, Marudus, Bolton, Gatewood, Lowe, Hirst, Force, etc... then when is he going to win? If Kramer hasnt built depth in 5 years, when is he going to build depth?

I put all my faith

in this team winning out in November, hosting and winning a playoff game over Thanksgiving. BUT, if that does not happen, I think Kramer needs to answer some tough questions as to why he couldnt get it done this year. As Kramer says, "November is big-man month." Well coach, lets see if you can step up to big-man status along with your players!

Again, GO CATS!

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:15 pm

Cat Pride wrote:I definitely dont question the many many great things Kramer has done for the football program. Despite his overall record, he has turned around this program and increased the interest and cash flow in the fan based exponentially.

Problem is, Kramer has never won more than 7 games in his tenure here. If you take out his 0-11 season, Kramer is merely 19-18 not counting this season. That is the definition of mediocrity, and I want more out of this program than mediocrity! If Kramer cant get it done with this team, I think something is seriously wrong. Something that changing a few assistants simply wont correct.

If you cant win with guys like Lulay, Mollohan, Marudus, Bolton, Gatewood, Lowe, Hirst, Force, etc... then when is he going to win? If Kramer hasnt built depth in 5 years, when is he going to build depth?

I put all my faith in this team winning out in November, hosting and winning a playoff game over Thanksgiving. BUT, if that does not happen, I think Kramer needs to answer some tough questions as to why he couldnt get it done this year. As Kramer says, "November is big-man month." Well coach, lets see if you can step up to big-man status along with your players!

Again, GO CATS!

Paragraph 1: definitely agree
Paragraph 2: that's manipulating stats to prove a point (why wouldn't you throw this year's games in?).
Paragraph 3: yep, we should be able to
Paragraph 4: Faith is what we need my 'Cat brother

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:20 pm

Cat Pride wrote:I definitely dont question the many many great things Kramer has done for the football program. Despite his overall record, he has turned around this program and increased the interest and cash flow in the fan based exponentially.

Problem is, Kramer has never won more than 7 games in his tenure here. If you take out his 0-11 season, Kramer is merely 19-18 not counting this season. That is the definition of mediocrity, and I want more out of this program than mediocrity! If Kramer cant get it done with this team, I think something is seriously wrong. Something that changing a few assistants simply wont correct.

lets give him a few more years for christ sakes! all he has done is turn around the program - kept it in contention for a first place finish in the big sky for 5 YEARS, not to mention recruiting. funny how you didnt mention anything like how half of our d was our becasue if injury or the fact that we are running a different d this year

If you cant win with guys like Lulay, Mollohan, Marudus, Bolton, Gatewood, Lowe, Hirst, Force, etc... then when is he going to win? If Kramer hasnt built depth in 5 years, when is he going to build depth?

we are my brother we are

I put all my faith in this team winning out in November, hosting and winning a playoff game over Thanksgiving. BUT, if that does not happen, I think Kramer needs to answer some tough questions as to why he couldnt get it done this year. As Kramer says, "November is big-man month." Well coach, lets see if you can step up to big-man status along with your players!

Again, GO CATS!

we will man we will...

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:28 pm

barechestcat wrote:
Cat Pride wrote:I definitely dont question the many many great things Kramer has done for the football program. Despite his overall record, he has turned around this program and increased the interest and cash flow in the fan based exponentially.

Problem is, Kramer has never won more than 7 games in his tenure here. If you take out his 0-11 season, Kramer is merely 19-18 not counting this season. That is the definition of mediocrity, and I want more out of this program than mediocrity! If Kramer cant get it done with this team, I think something is seriously wrong. Something that changing a few assistants simply wont correct.

If you cant win with guys like Lulay, Mollohan, Marudus, Bolton, Gatewood, Lowe, Hirst, Force, etc... then when is he going to win? If Kramer hasnt built depth in 5 years, when is he going to build depth?

I put all my faith in this team winning out in November, hosting and winning a playoff game over Thanksgiving. BUT, if that does not happen, I think Kramer needs to answer some tough questions as to why he couldnt get it done this year. As Kramer says, "November is big-man month." Well coach, lets see if you can step up to big-man status along with your players!

Again, GO CATS!
Paragraph 1: definitely agree
Paragraph 2: that's manipulating stats to prove a point (why wouldn't you throw this year's games in?).
Paragraph 3: yep, we should be able to
Paragraph 4: Faith is what we need my 'Cat brother

Not to be a prick, but lets add all Kramer's stats then. He's a grand total of 24-32. Mediocre isnt even a close category when we look at things this way.

Players have to execute, Kramer isnt playing on the OL for this team. But when these guys repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot with penalties, missed assignments, miss reads and general confusion... that falls on coaching IMO.

This is a poorly coached team, and superior athletes have led MSU to beat teams like NDSU, ISU, WSU and NAU. Not one of these games have the Cats out played the opposing team, but rather behind the heroic play of specific individuals have the Cats been fortunate enough to eek out the W.

I am just hoping these certain players keep up the heroics during "big-man month". I know we have the talent to win out. I hope things really come together in these next 3 games, and I hope Kramer proves me wrong.

iaafan · Post by **iaafan** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:38 pm

I agree it's time for this team to take another step. It has been pretty stagnant since beating UM in Missoula. Sort of been on a plateau and its hard to tell one team from another in an overall sense. This team is way different than the 02-03 teams, but the bottom line is the same. Win the next three and I'd say they've taken that step, but to go 6-5/7-4 and miss the playoffs in Lulay's senior year is a failure.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:49 pm

iaafan wrote:I agree it's time for this team to take another step. It has been pretty stagnant since beating UM in Missoula. Sort of been on a plateau and its hard to tell one team from another in an overall sense. This team is way different than the 02-03 teams, but the bottom line is the same. Win the next three and I'd say they've taken that step, but to go 6-5/7-4 and miss the playoffs in Lulay's senior year is a failure.

EXACTLY!

tetoncat · Post by **tetoncat** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:02 pm

You contradict yourselves by saying we must win in Lulay's senior year or everything is a failure. At the same time you criticize the team for having to rely on select players being heroic to gain wins. Maybe this team is not as good as everyone billed it. Even with Stars, if the others around them are not at a high level you will not win. The other thing your arguments fail to acknowledge is that other teams are not sitting on their asses waiting for the Cats to get better. They are out recruiting and building their programs as well. We have definitely closed the gap and can compete each week, but they are not going to let us win because we are supposed to be good. Barring the skid at the end of last year we could easily have been co-champs 3 years running. If we had and then ended up second this year would that have still been a failure.

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:19 pm

This program has been in rebuilding mode and won 2 conference titles and almost more importantly beeb beating the Griz over the past 4 years...shoot lets get rid of Kramer!!! There is absolutely no reason to suggest that he should be gone. We don't say anything to Mick or the basketball team if they have a bad season, no one suggests to get rid of him do they? This isn't major D1 athletics so it is going to be a little more difficult for a team to be up to a standard like the Griz have been. The thing is is we are on the same level ever since Kramers second level. Seems like that is a good direction.

I would say that the next step is to have a streak of playoff appearances and then we can start to complain about not making the plaoyoffs.

One last thing that I guess is a positive about this whole arguement, we are complaining about our team not making the playoffs, not the team being above 500....one quick question, did everyone complain about that before Kramer was here????

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:04 pm

Cat Pride wrote:
iaafan wrote:I agree it's time for this team to take another step. It has been pretty stagnant since beating UM in Missoula. Sort of been on a plateau and its hard to tell one team from another in an overall sense. This team is way different than the 02-03 teams, but the bottom line is the same. Win the next three and I'd say they've taken that step, but to go 6-5/7-4 and miss the playoffs in Lulay's senior year is a failure.
EXACTLY!

Guys, I get where you're coming from. If we were to miss the playoffs this year I would have to consider it an underachieved year. But, to me, that shows where we've come in the last five years in terms of our expectations. When Kramer was first hired it was "beat the griz", then we won some BSC championships and had some playoff appearances, now we have a team that I think a lot of us feel has every capability of making a NC run if they find a way to put it together. Bottom line is our expectations have risen and that's a good thing. But, one underachieving year does not qualify to even start a discussion on Kramer not being hired back IMO.

I also think there have been games where coaching could be attributed to a poor performance. But, if any of you have coached before you'll know that sometimes even the best preparation does not translate into performance and execution on the field.

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:20 pm

We've come a long way since 2000, that's for sure. 2 BSC titles, 2 victories over the Griz, and 2 playoff games (one a near win) sure beat what we had before. To me, it felt like the 2003 team underachieved and last year's team did too. This is the year that Kramer and the Cats can prove that they are not underachievers and get us a home playoff game. The opportunity is there. They need to take full advantage.

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:23 pm

I guess my frustration lies with the expectations Kramer continues to put on this team. Maybe we are just reading into it wrong, or hyping his words up, but it just seems to me that every year Kramer has me believing this time will at the very least play in the playoffs.

If Kramer raises expectations so high on a yearly basis and doesn't deliver, that would be my problem. What I'm basically saying is he has got to start backing up his talk. If we win out, sign the man to multi-year contract. He is hands down the best PR person this university has seen.

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:26 pm

I have to agree with Celtic Cat here. I remember asking Kramer in 2001 how many we'd win and he said 9. That's a lot of pressure to win 9 games and it is frustrating to all of us if expectations fall short. But what if expectations were set too low? It might be worse.

Catz Rock · Post by **Catz Rock** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:22 pm

This thread reminds me of egriz just before they beat Idaho State.

Toughen up boys, the last thing this team needs is a lack of leadership and respect from Bobcat Nation.

If we are going to act like a bunch of whining losers, how can you expect our beloved Bobcats to act any different.

Coach Kramer has done more for this program than any coach in the last 20 years. Look around the next time your at a game! The freaken place is packed with lunatics like me!

I haven't gotten this excited about a football team since 1984. Win, lose or draw, they have given us our money's worth!

These guys have given us alot to cheer about, especially those gutsy come from behind wins, and I wouldn't trade them for any team in the country.

Damn, I Love My Bobcats!!!!!!!!!

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:28 pm

AZCAT21 wrote:...We don't say anything to Mick or the basketball team if they have a bad season, no one suggests to get rid of him do they?...

only every year!

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:41 pm

Catz Rock wrote: Coach Kramer has done more for this program than any coach in the last 20 years. Look around the next time your at a game! The freaken place is packed with lunatics like me! I haven't gotten this excited about a football team since 1984. Win, lose or draw, they have given us our money's worth!

These guys have given us alot to cheer about, especially those gutsy come from behind wins, and I wouldn't trade them for any team in the country.

Damn, I Love My Bobcats!!!!!!!!!

I'm with you Catz Rock! I really like the team, the coaches, and the program. Overall we have a great season going. I think our boys are going to put together a nice run over the next few games.

liqud360 · Post by **liqud360** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:06 am

CelticCat wrote:I guess my frustration lies with the expectations Kramer continues to put on this team. Maybe we are just reading into it wrong, or hyping his words up, but it just seems to me that every year Kramer has me believing this time will at the very least play in the playoffs.

If Kramer raises expectations so high on a yearly basis and doesn't deliver, that would be my problem. What I'm basically saying is he has got to start backing up his talk. If we win out, sign the man to multi-year contract. He is hands down the best PR person this university has seen.

You make an interesting point Celtic, if Kramer has YOU believing in his program and what will happen...think of how his players must begin to feel. Now, the only thing left is for these fellas to start believing in their own abilities on the field. Lulay is a great example of what can happen when you start listening to Kramer...and you play like your in the matrix ...and accomplish anything you want!

I'm new to this Celtic...so if I messed up re-postic you quote, sorry

liqud360 · Post by **liqud360** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:08 am

Wow, I think I need to put away the beers,

my reply is attached to Celtics post, I suck at this.

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:55 am

liqud360 wrote:Wow, I think I need to put away the beers,

my reply is attached to Celtics post, I suck at this.

When you wake up Liquid I think things will look a little better for ya.
Kramer has done a great job and the criticisms here have not been against what we've done, but what we know we can do.

We are so close to breaking out of a defensive funk and shifting the offense into high gear, we can taste it. It will come. I see us shifting to 3rd this weekend- and 4th at EWU and then overdrive at home on the 19th.

The playoffs-- well...

lets just get through the BSC first.

tetoncat · Post by **tetoncat** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:10 pm

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that a lot of you on here were adorning Wolff as the best coach in the conference. What do you think his fans and boosters are feeling with EWU ranked in the top 5, picked to win the conference and now sitting in 3-4 slot and the same record as .....oh my god the BOBCATS. Get a grip people we are beating the people we should, lost a couple we maybe could have won, and won some we thought we might not. This is a tough ass conference and it is showing.