The Kramer Chronicle

[G.W.Bush]

What happened just a mere 1-2 years after he cleaned house? 2 straight Big Sky Championships? Hmmmmmm.

Kramer was 3-19 in his first 2 seasons, and 10-24 in his first 3 seasons. "Hmmm" is right.

Hysells boys weren't tough enough, that is why they quit.

That is an asinine statement. Hysell had a lot of good players, some of which Kramer used in his first 4 years- gtapp had a good list to draw from but you could also add Scott Turnquist, Pat Carahassen (sp), Corey Smith, Jay Haquet (sp) and Ryan Henning.

I am willing to bet these kids simply didn't buy into Kramer's philosophy and chose to leave; Kramer did not force them to leave.

You really think that OVER half of the team didn’t agree with Kramer’s philosophy? What philosophy would possibly make over half a team quit? Come on, you don’t really think Kramer had something to do with all of those guys quitting? Does anyone remember the hard feelings between Flatow’s (sp) family and Kramer? How about Joe Baker quitting? An all Big Sky player that busted him hump day in and day out just decided that he didn’t want to play football anymore because he didn’t agree with the coach’s philosophy. Get real. Kramer made a lot of guys quit, maybe not all but he sure the hell did with some.

Aside from the fact that Kramer was critical of RJ for not playing when he was hurt, do you have any other facts to back up you comment? I have serious doubts that the most prolific running back in MSU history was being squeezed out.

Kramer’s first year he brought in Dunn who was suppose to replace Johnson, Kramer’s second year he brought in King who was suppose to replace Johnson. Two out of the three years Kramer tried to replace Johnson. How many times has he tried replacing Lulay? Kramer was critical of Johnson on many more occasions, but most of them were in his sophomore and junior years.

I think Kramer has done a good job of getting people interested in MSU football, but I think that we get a little over zealous with our praise for him. I think he still owes the fans more, and I am not going to be happy with another 7-4 season. I don’t want to see Kramer leave MSU, but I don’t want to get use to 6-5 and 7-4 records.

[GROOVY CAT]

Hysell did the same thing Kramer did when he was hired after Solmonson. He put us through one tough winter conditioning (Boot Camp) and spring ball, and many guys could not handle it. I was a freshman when Hysell took over and we had 25 freshman on the team, and after that spring semester only 5 of us were left. Many of the upper classmen left too. Most new coaches taking over a struggling program put there team through mentally and physically hard conditioning and practices; therefore, to weed out the mentally weak players. This is common practice and I dont think Kramer should be ridiculed for what he did.

[Platinumcat]

GW,
For me, this is an unworthy direction the conversation is going; I take some responsibility for that. Truth is, my point is baseless. And, unless you were directly involved with the team, yours is too.

I will be happy to discuss points regarding what is acceptable and not. I think records are dependent upon what type of pre-conference schedule you play. 7-4 records in the regular season aren't a terrible thing in light of the kind of pre-season we have played.

A bigger indicator for me on whether I am happy with Coach K is things like:
1) Do we win the games we are supposed to win
2) Do we win the occasional game we're not supposed to win
3) Is the fan base continuing to grow and support the 'Cats on Saturdays
4) Does the team play with a "Big Dog" attitude (see other post)
5) Does the team play with discipline
6) BSC titles
7) Cat/Griz "W"'s
Playoff appearances/victories

All of these matter to me as a booster. Some we're doing well at and some we're not. I'm not saying that the program is in a perfect position. But, it is light years ahead of where it was six years ago. Improvement is needed and hopefully the entire football staff recognizes this and is committed to continuing to move forward. I have to believe they are.

[Ponycat]

Kramer was 3-19 in his first 2 seasons, and 10-24 in his first 3 seasons. "Hmmm" is right.

Where did you get these numbers?
He was 5-7 in his second year here

[G.W.Bush]

Kramer was 3-19 in his first 2 seasons, and 10-24 in his first 3 seasons. "Hmmm" is right.

Where did you get these numbers?
He was 5-7 in his second year here

I probably got the numbers from the same guy that told you the Cats played a 12 game regular season schedule. The Cats finished 3-8 in Kramer's second year. Making Kramer’s 2 year record 3-19.

[jagur1]

for 2 years in a row becouse of the placement of the last saturday of August the Griz played a 12 game regular seasons so I'd guess the cats did the same.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/di ... ?year=2000

This is the place I go to see team records and of course the cats aren't included but 2001 & 2002 teams could play 12 game seasons so 0-11 in 2000 and 5-7 sounds about correct for 2001.

Then it gets easy 6-5, 6-5, 6-5, 6-5

[Ponycat]

I probably got the numbers from the same guy that told you the Cats played a 12 game regular season schedule. The Cats finished 3-8 in Kramer's second year. Making Kramer’s 2 year record 3-19.

I hate to bust your bubble on this but we had 5 wins that year. IF it wasn't 5-7 then it was 5-6 and the next year we went. 7-6 with the playoff loss included.

Way to try to drag down Kramer numbers with your own sagging numbers there G DUB.

[Ponycat]

for 2 years in a row becouse of the placement of the last saturday of August the Griz played a 12 game regular seasons so I'd guess the cats did the same.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/di ... ?year=2000

This is the place I go to see team records and of course the cats aren't included but 2001 & 2002 teams could play 12 game seasons so 0-11 in 2000 and 5-7 sounds about correct for 2001.

Then it gets easy 6-5, 6-5, 6-5, 6-5

Can anybody else help me out here I'm dealing with morons. 2000 - 0-11
2001 - 5-6 (or 5-7 not sure) 2002 - 7-5 (7-6 with the playoff loss), 2003 7-5 (7-6 with the playoff loss), 2004- 6-5.

[Hell's Bells]

Kramer was 3-19 in his first 2 seasons, and 10-24 in his first 3 seasons. "Hmmm" is right.

Where did you get these numbers?
He was 5-7 in his second year here

I probably got the numbers from the same guy that told you the Cats played a 12 game regular season schedule. The Cats finished 3-8 in Kramer's second year. Making Kramer’s 2 year record 3-19.

mr president

id hate to disagree with you but

1) heysell's last year the cats were 3-8
2) Kramer's second year the cats won 5 games - all conference matchups. i remember being there in the stands...and the talk about making playoffs as brief as it was

[GOKATS]

'00 0-11

'01 5-6 '00-'01 5-17

'02 7-6 '00-'02 12-23

'03 7-6 '00-'03 19-29

'04 6-5 '00-'04 25-34

Take out the '00 debacle and it's 29-23.

'02-'04 20-17

As long as you're going to argue, you might as well have the right numbers.

[Ponycat]

You have to take out 99 as well since Kramer's first year was 2000

[GOKATS]

You have to take out 99 as well since Kramer's first year was 2000

My oops. I knew Kramer moved here in '99, but forgot he didn't coach until '00.

I fixed it. Thanks!

[jagur1]

6-6 in 2003 not 7-6 they only played 11 in 2003 plus the playoff lose.

[Ponycat]

6-6 in 2003 not 7-6 they only played 11 in 2003 plus the playoff lose.

WRONG

[GrizRick]

This might help you out: http://www.michigan-football.com/ncaa/ncaa_1aa.htm

[Eastcoastgriz]

2002
Montana State (7-6,5-2)
-----------------------------------------
Aug 31 SMC................. 27-24 W
9/7/02 at Stephen F. Austin. 13-30 L
Sep 14 ADAMS STATE.......... 31-6 W
Sep 21 at WASHINGTON STATE... 28-45 L
Oct 05 CENTRAL WASHINGTON.....16-31 L
Oct 12 *at Idaho State........ 14-18 L
Oct 19 *WEBER STATE...... .... 44-10 W
Oct 26 *at Northern Arizona... 17-20 L Nov. 2 *at Sacramento State... 31-30 W Nov 09 *EASTERN WASHINGTON.... 25-14 W Nov 16 *PORTLAND STATE........ 28-26 W Nov 23 *at Montana............ 10-7 W Nov 30 at McNeese State...... 14-21 L

2003
Montana State (7-6,5-2)
----------------------------------------
Aug 30 at Wyoming............ 10-21 L Sep 06 GARDNER-WEBB.......... 38-3 W Sep 20 at Cal Poly........... 21-24 L Sep 27 NORTHERN COLORADO..... 10-14 L Oct 04 at Saint Mary's....... 40-0 W Oct 11 *IDAHO STATE........... 17-23 L Oct 18 *at Weber State........ 26-3 W Oct 25 *NORTHERN ARIZONA...... 21-17 W Nov 01 *SACRAMENTO STATE...... 56-7 W Nov 8 *at Eastern Washington. 25-34 L Nov 15 *at Portland State..... 25-14 W Nov 22 *MONTANA............... 27-20 W Nov 29 at Northern Iowa...... 14-35 L

2004
Montana State (6-5,4-3)
-----------------------------------------
Sep 11 ADAMS STATE.......... 19-0 W Sep 18 CAL POLY............. 14-27 L Sep 25 at Colorado State.... 14-39 L Oct 02 *at Idaho State....... 17-13 W Oct 09 *WEBER STATE.......... 20-17 W Oct 16 *PORTLAND STATE....... 31-24 WO Oct 23 SOUTH DAKOTA STATE... 27-24 W Oct 30 *at Northern Arizona.. 60-14 W Nov 06 *at Sacramento Stat... 28-38 L Nov 13 *EASTERN WASHINGTON... 44-51 LO Nov 20 *at Montana........... 22-38 L

[GOKATS]

This might help you out: http://www.michigan-football.com/ncaa/ncaa_1aa.htm

Thanks for the link. I just spent an hour getting the data to prove Jag wrong and by the time I got back here it was done.

[jagur1]

so that means they went 5-6 on 2001? My only point being 12 games were played 2 years in a row. I had the 2 years wrong I was thinking 01 & 02 and as you show it was 02 & 03, Why are you guys yelling at me (because I'm a Griz) Heck I was trying to help Pony out because GW was being a Dick.


so is this correct or wrong

2000 0-11
2001 5-6 ? or 3-8?
2002 7-6
2003 7-6
2004 6-5
2005 4-3


5-6 I just looked it up. Boy the cats don't even have a .500 record

[GOKATS]

Why are you guys yelling at me (because I'm a Griz) Heck I was trying to help Pony out because GW was being a Dick.

I voted for GW, but certainly not the ass that's posting here as GW- he is a Dick.