Choate vs Vigen

[onceacat]

That article was from 2 or 3 years later. People forget things or remember things differently. Or maybe he had his offer from Ash pulled when Ash was fired. Or maybe Choate asked him to come to campus to be re-recruited. I have no particular insider information. Only that it was (and last time I checked, still IS) well documented on BN that Murray had been offered and committed to the Cats before Ash was fired.

I can't access the old recruiting threads right now, but its all in there.

[MSU01]

https://msubobcats.com/documents/2016/2 ... ing_16.pdf

Here's the press release from MSU from February 2016 when Murray signed. Im assuming that Murray had an offer from Ash which Choate was not obligated to honor when the coaching change was made since the NLI hadn't yet been signed. Choate decided to maintain the offer, Murray signed and there we go.

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

My guess is that he was uncertain about his offer because of the coaching change. IIRC, Kramer pulled a bunch of the offers Hysell had made, so that he could bring in his Jucos and drop downs. Players are aware that this can happen.

[AFCAT]

The 2016 Vim recruiting thread doesn't start until December 18th, 2015. Remember, there was no early signing period back then. Chris Murray didn't come for his first visit to MSU until January 2016, just before signing day and the first mention of Chris in Vims recruiting thread occurs on 11 Jan, page six. That doesn't mean Chris wasn't talked about in other threads though. Anyway, I'd go with the actual quotes in the article from the player rather than random posts on BN, but it doesn't really matter. Chris may have been looked at by Ash and not even offered a scholly. I'm not sure Choate would pull an offer only to invite the player to visit and re-offer something he just took away. Heck, we see young men "offered" now and they end up falling off the radar for various reasons and sign at JCs or NAIA schools or don't go anywhere. I see 2025 recruits that still have pinned MSU offers, but they haven't signed with anyone yet and I doubt those offers are still valid. Some of those offers may not have been committable offers at all.

Heck, if you want a laugh, just go back and read old recruiting threads and see what people were saying about recruits. Some predictions are spot on and others wildly off. Heck, there are names of signed recruits that year that I can't even remember. I do have to give Choate credit for his first class though, because there were some absolute studs and legends signed that year.

Oh, I've thought about starting a "NAILED IT!" and "Face plant" predictions thread, but that's for another day.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 20&t=37471



I'm ready for the high and mighty counter posters to come on now and chastise us for arguing about something that happened nine years ago and how it isn't relevant to today.

[MSU01]

Well there you have it, Murray did not commit to MSU until after Choate had been named head coach. Without a deep dive into Chris' Twitter account it may be impossible to figure out how much interest in him there was from the prior coaching staff, although as Washington's D-Line coach I doubt Choate knew about him before coming to MSU. If I recall correctly, Choate did retain a fair number of Ash's assistants on his initial staff so it's quite possible one of them already knew about him or was already recruiting him.

I'm ready for the high and mighty counter posters to come on now and chastise us for arguing about something that happened nine years ago and how it isn't relevant to today.

Nah, the topic of this thread is already irrelevant to today so let's argue away!

[SparkCat]

The 2016 Vim recruiting thread doesn't start until December 18th, 2015. Remember, there was no early signing period back then. Chris Murray didn't come for his first visit to MSU until January 2016, just before signing day and the first mention of Chris in Vims recruiting thread occurs on 11 Jan, page six. That doesn't mean Chris wasn't talked about in other threads though. Anyway, I'd go with the actual quotes in the article from the player rather than random posts on BN, but it doesn't really matter. Chris may have been looked at by Ash and not even offered a scholly. I'm not sure Choate would pull an offer only to invite the player to visit and re-offer something he just took away. Heck, we see young men "offered" now and they end up falling off the radar for various reasons and sign at JCs or NAIA schools or don't go anywhere. I see 2025 recruits that still have pinned MSU offers, but they haven't signed with anyone yet and I doubt those offers are still valid. Some of those offers may not have been committable offers at all.

Heck, if you want a laugh, just go back and read old recruiting threads and see what people were saying about recruits. Some predictions are spot on and others wildly off. Heck, there are names of signed recruits that year that I can't even remember. I do have to give Choate credit for his first class though, because there were some absolute studs and legends signed that year.

Oh, I've thought about starting a "NAILED IT!" and "Face plant" predictions thread, but that's for another day.

https://bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewt ... 20&t=37471



I'm ready for the high and mighty counter posters to come on now and chastise us for arguing about something that happened nine years ago and how it isn't relevant to today.

Wow, I didn’t know Bruggman had such accolades in 2012. The dude was an interception machine if I remember correctly.

[iaafan]

It would've been interesting to see how those two would've done under Vigen. I liked Choate, but a QB guru he wasn't. I know a lot of people are concerned about the QB next year, but with all the talent in the room, there's got to be someone who will be very good. I think a lot of people are looking at how Wilson and Reed played in mop up duty. That's kind of unfair as most of that came with all the other backups in the game and usually in home games where opponents don't have their second and third stringers available and have to stick with a lot of quality players.

The only way you'd see Wilson or Reed with the starters was in the event that, heaven forbid, #4 got hurt. Chambers and Mellott both got to run with the starters and both looked good. McKay and Mellott both ran with the starters and both looked good for the most part.

[FTG_1984]

Vigen > Choate. End of discussion. The collective sigh of relief from MSU Admin when Choate left could be heard across the state.

Candidate for 2025 worst take of the year on this board

[SparkCat]

Vigen > Choate. End of discussion. The collective sigh of relief from MSU Admin when Choate left could be heard across the state.

Candidate for 2025 worst take of the year on this board

What part? Vigen has proven to be a much better coach than Choate and there was a good handful of administrative staff / coaches from other sports that were more than happy to see Choate and his authoritarian attitude gone. Have you ever been in his office? It’s now part of the student athlete resource center, walking in there alone will tell you how he saw himself and others.

[iaafan]

Another good comparison would be Vigen vs. Hauck. I think Vigen has the lead through the first four years, but Hauck was incredible his last three years of his first term in office. I think they were undefeated in 2007 but lost first round vs Wofford, 2008 and 2009 they lost championship game. I think 2009 they were undefeated going into championship. They only lost 4-5 games in that stretch, but didn't play any FBS teams and the BSC wasn't as strong as it is now and they had a lot of narrow wins in that stretch and played really weak non-conference schedule with only two road games.

[wbtfg]

I'm glad we had Choate....I'm glad we have Vigen. Both guys were/are great for the program and both deserve to be celebrated. We don't have to pit them against each other.

[GoldstoneCat]

Vigen > Choate. End of discussion. The collective sigh of relief from MSU Admin when Choate left could be heard across the state.

Candidate for 2025 worst take of the year on this board

What part? Vigen has proven to be a much better coach than Choate and there was a good handful of administrative staff / coaches from other sports that were more than happy to see Choate and his authoritarian attitude gone. Have you ever been in his office? It’s now part of the student athlete resource center, walking in there alone will tell you how he saw himself and others.

Choate is an abrasive guy and always had a used car salesman vibe to me. He was a couple plays in Missoula from being an afterthought.

[MSU01]

I'm glad we had Choate....I'm glad we have Vigen. Both guys were/are great for the program and both deserve to be celebrated. We don't have to pit them against each other.

Choate and Vigen are both great coaches but appear (at least to me who has never met either one) to have completely opposite personalities. It makes sense that some fans would prefer Choate's style and others prefer Vigen's. You're right though, they were both great coaches who helped to build the MSU program into what it is today. The program wouldn't be where it is now without the efforts and successes of both.

[catatac]

Vigen > Choate. End of discussion. The collective sigh of relief from MSU Admin when Choate left could be heard across the state.

Candidate for 2025 worst take of the year on this board

What part? Vigen has proven to be a much better coach than Choate and there was a good handful of administrative staff / coaches from other sports that were more than happy to see Choate and his authoritarian attitude gone. Have you ever been in his office? It’s now part of the student athlete resource center, walking in there alone will tell you how he saw himself and others.

Choate is an abrasive guy and always had a used car salesman vibe to me. He was a couple plays in Missoula from being an afterthought.

Hmmm, I thought he was a pretty damn good coach. I'd be willing to bet Nevada goes undefeated or close to it one of these years soon.

[GoldstoneCat]

Vigen > Choate. End of discussion. The collective sigh of relief from MSU Admin when Choate left could be heard across the state.

Candidate for 2025 worst take of the year on this board

What part? Vigen has proven to be a much better coach than Choate and there was a good handful of administrative staff / coaches from other sports that were more than happy to see Choate and his authoritarian attitude gone. Have you ever been in his office? It’s now part of the student athlete resource center, walking in there alone will tell you how he saw himself and others.

Choate is an abrasive guy and always had a used car salesman vibe to me. He was a couple plays in Missoula from being an afterthought.

Hmmm, I thought he was a pretty damn good coach. I'd be willing to bet Nevada goes undefeated or close to it one of these years soon.

To each their own. No denying he put us on a good trajectory, my personal opinions aside. But I would bet a pretty penny Nevada doesn't sniff the top of the MWC, much less go undefeated.

[AFCAT]

I'm glad we had Choate....I'm glad we have Vigen. Both guys were/are great for the program and both deserve to be celebrated. We don't have to pit them against each other.

Exactly, I've never heard a player say anything bad about either coach. I know that Choate had some run ins with higher ups at MSU, but he cared a lot about the football program and it showed.

[tetoncat]

I'm glad we had Choate....I'm glad we have Vigen. Both guys were/are great for the program and both deserve to be celebrated. We don't have to pit them against each other.

Exactly, I've never heard a player say anything bad about either coach. I know that Choate had some run ins with higher ups at MSU, but he cared a lot about the football program and it showed.

Cats needed facility and funding upgrades to compete at the top. He pushed hard for that and certainly was not afraid to say it, even if it made higher ups look bad.

[coloradocat]

Vigen > Choate. End of discussion. The collective sigh of relief from MSU Admin when Choate left could be heard across the state.

Candidate for 2025 worst take of the year on this board

What part? Vigen has proven to be a much better coach than Choate and there was a good handful of administrative staff / coaches from other sports that were more than happy to see Choate and his authoritarian attitude gone. Have you ever been in his office? It’s now part of the student athlete resource center, walking in there alone will tell you how he saw himself and others.

Choate is an abrasive guy and always had a used car salesman vibe to me. He was a couple plays in Missoula from being an afterthought.

Hmmm, I thought he was a pretty damn good coach. I'd be willing to bet Nevada goes undefeated or close to it one of these years soon.

To each their own. No denying he put us on a good trajectory, my personal opinions aside. But I would bet a pretty penny Nevada doesn't sniff the top of the MWC, much less go undefeated.

As low as we felt at the end of the Ash era, Nevada has a much steep climb that we did when Choate arrived in town. He's got his work cut out for him. Luckily the MWC looks very different than it did 12 months ago.

[TomCat88]

Another good comparison would be Vigen vs. Hauck. I think Vigen has the lead through the first four years, but Hauck was incredible his last three years of his first term in office. I think they were undefeated in 2007 but lost first round vs Wofford, 2008 and 2009 they lost championship game. I think 2009 they were undefeated going into championship. They only lost 4-5 games in that stretch, but didn't play any FBS teams and the BSC wasn't as strong as it is now and they had a lot of narrow wins in that stretch and played really weak non-conference schedule with only two road games.

Kind of a tough comparison because those eras 2003-2009 and 2021-2024 are very different. As you mentioned UM didn't play any FBS teams and the BSC wasn't as strong as it is now. They only played two FBS teams in those seven years and the BSC wasn't as strong and only had one other team in the playoffs in each of those years. There weren't as many teams (16) in the playoffs. The best record of those was WSU in 2008 at 10-4. EWU was 9-4 twice, MSU 8-5 and 7-5, and EWU 7-5 in the other six years with five combined wins. The BSC has had nearly double the at-large playoff entrants the last four years (13?) than it had in those seven. The BSC has been more competitive, meanwhile, the rest of the nation has been watered down a bit making it easier to win playoff games. Counting UM's wins there were 16 wins in seven years from 2003-2009, while there have been 19 wins in just four years from 2021-2024. MSU has played three FBS teams the past four years, while UM played two in seven years.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Vigen > Choate. End of discussion. The collective sigh of relief from MSU Admin when Choate left could be heard across the state.

Candidate for 2025 worst take of the year on this board

What part? Vigen has proven to be a much better coach than Choate and there was a good handful of administrative staff / coaches from other sports that were more than happy to see Choate and his authoritarian attitude gone. Have you ever been in his office? It’s now part of the student athlete resource center, walking in there alone will tell you how he saw himself and others.

Choate is an abrasive guy and always had a used car salesman vibe to me. He was a couple plays in Missoula from being an afterthought.

Hmmm, I thought he was a pretty damn good coach. I'd be willing to bet Nevada goes undefeated or close to it one of these years soon.

This is nothing against Choate because I think he’s a good coach and did a phenomenal job here, but Nevada isn’t that kind of program. They’re not that good. If he can get them to even consistently win 7-8 games a year he’ll get hired by a bigger program.