The Mountain West

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Stop_HammerTime69
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The Mountain West

Post by Stop_HammerTime69 » Mon Jul 01, 2024 1:09 pm

To preface, I'm a Griz fan, but a lot of the changes that have come this offseason have potential to impact UM and MSU, so I'm open to hearing from anyone educated on the topic regardless of allegiance, and if FBS or whatever that looks like is in our future I would hope we move as a pair (and maybe with Idaho too) because the Brawl is the most important annual game for both our communities and the state.

The State of Montana is generally considered part of the Mountain West region, but I realized that I don’t remember the last time the Griz played a Mountain West Conference opponent. Since the Mountain West hit 12 teams in 2013, 11 seasons, Montana and Montana State have each played Wyoming one time a piece. That is the extent of our football relationships with the Mountain West.

But even historically, the Montana teams haven’t played the Mountain West teams much. Only the series against Boise State, Utah State, and MSU vs Fresno State and Wyoming eclipse 20 games all time.

Image

This raises a question: why haven’t the Montana teams played these regional foes more often?

Nevada (and to a lesser extent Boise State) perplexes me, because Nevada joined the Big Sky in 1979 and played there for 12 years until moving up to the Big West in 1992. Chris Ault is still among the winningest head coaches in Big Sky history. Boise State joined the conference in 1969 and then joined Nevada in the Big West in 1996 (taking Idaho with them). This is interesting to me because, with the general dearth of teams out west, there would be more interest in playing teams you have some history with.

Now, I could see an argument that, in the modern era, Montana and Montana State are two the only programs for whom home game gate attendance make up a significant chunk of their athletic department revenue. So, play one “buy-game” against the Northwest Pac-12 teams every 3-4 years but otherwise stack your non-conference with as many home games as possible, especially if you don’t need the money. Additionally, with the exception of Utah State and maybe Wyoming and Boise State, it is generally easier to get to Seattle and Pullman and Oregon than it is to any of the college towns in the Mountain West. And Montana has played the 4 PNW Pac schools more than the MWC schools for that reason and ancient conference membership in the PCC.

I bring this up today, the day the Pac-12 has died, because I find it really odd that UM and MSU haven’t cultivated more football relationships with the only Western FBS conference left. With the possibility of revenue sharing agreements, the NCAA getting bodied in the supreme court, and recent consolidation, we are not far away from the tippy top end of the sport splitting off from the FBS or the NCAA entirely. A new line will be drawn. And while I like the Big Sky - which comes with winning lots of games, and playing regional opponents and our historic rivals EWU, Idaho, and you all - seeing Jacksonville State, James Madison, Sam Houston State, and now Delaware and Missouri State moving up, along with Appalachian State and Wyoming featuring so prominently in the new EA College Football 25 trailer: https://youtu.be/W1QDaXkufCo?si=kFugAZmxNEPqv5DD; it all makes me wonder what our athletic department/s are doing to make sure we are on the right side of the line when it is inevitably drawn. Maybe we don’t want to be on that side of the line either. It costs a lot of money and community resources to support that endeavor. The big issue to me is I’m not clear on what UM and MSU actually want to do. It also doesn’t seem like there’s any interest from the Mountain West either. It seems like there’s a divide between Montana and the rest of the Rockies and I’d like to hear from people who know or understand why that is.



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coloradocat
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Re: The Mountain West

Post by coloradocat » Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:18 pm

This has been discussed on BN in multiple threads but ultimately, we don't play MWC teams (or really, they don't play us) because 1) they don't pay as much as P4/5 teams so there's less incentive for us and, more importantly, 2) we've both been good enough for the last two decades that most G5 teams aren't going to pay an FCS team to beat them. As far as moving up, I'm sure both ADs want to move to the MWC as it's a more natural fit at this point and more money, but one MT team, much less two, doesn't bring enough eyeballs/clicks to the media rights package.


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Stop_HammerTime69
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Re: The Mountain West

Post by Stop_HammerTime69 » Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:26 pm

coloradocat wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:18 pm
This has been discussed on BN in multiple threads but ultimately, we don't play MWC teams (or really, they don't play us) because 1) they don't pay as much as P4/5 teams so there's less incentive for us and, more importantly, 2) we've both been good enough for the last two decades that most G5 teams aren't going to pay an FCS team to beat them. As far as moving up, I'm sure both ADs want to move to the MWC as it's a more natural fit at this point and more money, but one MT team, much less two, doesn't bring enough eyeballs/clicks to the media rights package.
I hear that and it makes sense. I think I'm just wondering what the vision is for MSU and UM athletics in this new landscape is. Since it clearly doesn't include the MWC, is this it for the both of us? It's not a bad deal - winning and playing regional rivals is the name of the game - but are we just content letting Delaware and Missouri State and Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State pass over us? I know the geography thing is a factor there too. IDK, something just doesn't sit right about this, but it is still pretty good.



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Re: The Mountain West

Post by AFCAT » Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:53 pm

Stop_HammerTime69 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:26 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:18 pm
This has been discussed on BN in multiple threads but ultimately, we don't play MWC teams (or really, they don't play us) because 1) they don't pay as much as P4/5 teams so there's less incentive for us and, more importantly, 2) we've both been good enough for the last two decades that most G5 teams aren't going to pay an FCS team to beat them. As far as moving up, I'm sure both ADs want to move to the MWC as it's a more natural fit at this point and more money, but one MT team, much less two, doesn't bring enough eyeballs/clicks to the media rights package.
I hear that and it makes sense. I think I'm just wondering what the vision is for MSU and UM athletics in this new landscape is. Since it clearly doesn't include the MWC, is this it for the both of us? It's not a bad deal - winning and playing regional rivals is the name of the game - but are we just content letting Delaware and Missouri State and Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State pass over us? I know the geography thing is a factor there too. IDK, something just doesn't sit right about this, but it is still pretty good.
Great, another moving up thread. Haven't had one of these in 10 minutes.

"Pass over us" For what? Yay, they get to play for a chance at the "Who Cares Bowl" and a lot more debt for their programs.


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Hawks86
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Re: The Mountain West

Post by Hawks86 » Mon Jul 01, 2024 3:08 pm

Listen to Colter's interview with Leon. He makes a comment that,is basically, all that can be said about this subject.


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Re: The Mountain West

Post by Prodigal Cat » Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:53 pm

Mountain West West games can be a money loser for the 2 Montana schools. Both schools pocket more or just as much from sponsor revenue, ticket sales and everything else around a home game even after they pay to have a Butler or Morehead State to come in and lose by 45 (at the half) in the Nonconference. Plus those are guaranteed wins where playing the MWC, not so much. There are several Big Sky vs MWC games every year but they are played by schools that can't get 20K+ ticket buyers and the payout for a MWC is actually worth it to them (PSU, EWU, ISU NAU ect).


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Stop_HammerTime69
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Re: The Mountain West

Post by Stop_HammerTime69 » Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:10 pm

AFCAT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:53 pm
Stop_HammerTime69 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:26 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:18 pm
This has been discussed on BN in multiple threads but ultimately, we don't play MWC teams (or really, they don't play us) because 1) they don't pay as much as P4/5 teams so there's less incentive for us and, more importantly, 2) we've both been good enough for the last two decades that most G5 teams aren't going to pay an FCS team to beat them. As far as moving up, I'm sure both ADs want to move to the MWC as it's a more natural fit at this point and more money, but one MT team, much less two, doesn't bring enough eyeballs/clicks to the media rights package.
I hear that and it makes sense. I think I'm just wondering what the vision is for MSU and UM athletics in this new landscape is. Since it clearly doesn't include the MWC, is this it for the both of us? It's not a bad deal - winning and playing regional rivals is the name of the game - but are we just content letting Delaware and Missouri State and Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State pass over us? I know the geography thing is a factor there too. IDK, something just doesn't sit right about this, but it is still pretty good.
Great, another moving up thread. Haven't had one of these in 10 minutes.

"Pass over us" For what? Yay, they get to play for a chance at the "Who Cares Bowl" and a lot more debt for their programs.
Today is the day all of the major realignment changes become official. Pretty easy to see why it would be on someone's mind.

And "pass us over" for general recognition. Frankly, I'm mostly just bummed that, despite being better teams, better schools, and having better fanbases, teams like Kennesaw State and Sam Houston State are gonna be in the new CFB video game coming out in a couple weeks and we're not, but with everything else going on, it makes stability feel more like stagnation than anything else.



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Re: The Mountain West

Post by Stop_HammerTime69 » Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:12 pm

Prodigal Cat wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 5:53 pm
Mountain West West games can be a money loser for the 2 Montana schools. Both schools pocket more or just as much from sponsor revenue, ticket sales and everything else around a home game even after they pay to have a Butler or Morehead State to come in and lose by 45 (at the half) in the Nonconference. Plus those are guaranteed wins where playing the MWC, not so much. There are several Big Sky vs MWC games every year but they are played by schools that can't get 20K+ ticket buyers and the payout for a MWC is actually worth it to them (PSU, EWU, ISU NAU ect).
It does seem like UM and MSU home games being worth more than what MWC teams would pay is the answer. It would be nice to play Boise State and Wyoming and so on more often but it's probably for the best we don't if we can't get any home games from it.



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Re: The Mountain West

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:26 pm

UM and MSU football are screwed, blued and tattooed for the foreseeable future in terms being significant in the eyes of the NCAA. As has been the case from the beginning of time. Best to just ignore the situation and go to the games like you have been. I think it’s great btw and love living in the bubble far away from the outside world that is “big time” college football or anything else big time for that matter. Cheers!


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Re: The Mountain West

Post by Cataholic » Mon Jul 01, 2024 7:12 pm

One big question that gets lost in the conversation is “what is best for the growth of the university as a whole”. While moving up increases name recognition, does it bring enough new students (growth) to the university to justify the cost of moving up. With our current enrollment trends, there is very little reason to invest in moving up for athletics. We continue to grow enrollment, sell out games and cover costs. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. So I would expect university leaders and the regents to be against moving up. From a straight athletic perspective, I would love to see us move up - but I don’t see it happening as the overall economic impact to the university is probably not positive. We just don’t have a large enough media market.



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Re: The Mountain West

Post by AFCAT » Mon Jul 01, 2024 7:52 pm

Stop_HammerTime69 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:10 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:53 pm
Stop_HammerTime69 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:26 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:18 pm
This has been discussed on BN in multiple threads but ultimately, we don't play MWC teams (or really, they don't play us) because 1) they don't pay as much as P4/5 teams so there's less incentive for us and, more importantly, 2) we've both been good enough for the last two decades that most G5 teams aren't going to pay an FCS team to beat them. As far as moving up, I'm sure both ADs want to move to the MWC as it's a more natural fit at this point and more money, but one MT team, much less two, doesn't bring enough eyeballs/clicks to the media rights package.
I hear that and it makes sense. I think I'm just wondering what the vision is for MSU and UM athletics in this new landscape is. Since it clearly doesn't include the MWC, is this it for the both of us? It's not a bad deal - winning and playing regional rivals is the name of the game - but are we just content letting Delaware and Missouri State and Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State pass over us? I know the geography thing is a factor there too. IDK, something just doesn't sit right about this, but it is still pretty good.
Great, another moving up thread. Haven't had one of these in 10 minutes.

"Pass over us" For what? Yay, they get to play for a chance at the "Who Cares Bowl" and a lot more debt for their programs.
Today is the day all of the major realignment changes become official. Pretty easy to see why it would be on someone's mind.

And "pass us over" for general recognition. Frankly, I'm mostly just bummed that, despite being better teams, better schools, and having better fanbases, teams like Kennesaw State and Sam Houston State are gonna be in the new CFB video game coming out in a couple weeks and we're not, but with everything else going on, it makes stability feel more like stagnation than anything else.
A video game!? Buy the game and pretend the Cal Berkeley team is the gris and you’ll be fine.


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Re: The Mountain West

Post by msugr8 » Tue Jul 02, 2024 8:33 am

Clever and spot on!



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Re: The Mountain West

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Tue Jul 02, 2024 10:54 am

AFCAT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 7:52 pm
Stop_HammerTime69 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:10 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:53 pm
Stop_HammerTime69 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:26 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:18 pm
This has been discussed on BN in multiple threads but ultimately, we don't play MWC teams (or really, they don't play us) because 1) they don't pay as much as P4/5 teams so there's less incentive for us and, more importantly, 2) we've both been good enough for the last two decades that most G5 teams aren't going to pay an FCS team to beat them. As far as moving up, I'm sure both ADs want to move to the MWC as it's a more natural fit at this point and more money, but one MT team, much less two, doesn't bring enough eyeballs/clicks to the media rights package.
I hear that and it makes sense. I think I'm just wondering what the vision is for MSU and UM athletics in this new landscape is. Since it clearly doesn't include the MWC, is this it for the both of us? It's not a bad deal - winning and playing regional rivals is the name of the game - but are we just content letting Delaware and Missouri State and Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State pass over us? I know the geography thing is a factor there too. IDK, something just doesn't sit right about this, but it is still pretty good.
Great, another moving up thread. Haven't had one of these in 10 minutes.

"Pass over us" For what? Yay, they get to play for a chance at the "Who Cares Bowl" and a lot more debt for their programs.
Today is the day all of the major realignment changes become official. Pretty easy to see why it would be on someone's mind.

And "pass us over" for general recognition. Frankly, I'm mostly just bummed that, despite being better teams, better schools, and having better fanbases, teams like Kennesaw State and Sam Houston State are gonna be in the new CFB video game coming out in a couple weeks and we're not, but with everything else going on, it makes stability feel more like stagnation than anything else.
A video game!? Buy the game and pretend the Cal Berkeley team is the gris and you’ll be fine.
Pretend that a school that wears Blue and Gold. Has several former Bobcats. Is known for its laboratory sciences.

Is the Griz?


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AFCAT
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Re: The Mountain West

Post by AFCAT » Tue Jul 02, 2024 2:40 pm

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2024 10:54 am
AFCAT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 7:52 pm
Stop_HammerTime69 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 6:10 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:53 pm
Stop_HammerTime69 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:26 pm
coloradocat wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2024 2:18 pm
This has been discussed on BN in multiple threads but ultimately, we don't play MWC teams (or really, they don't play us) because 1) they don't pay as much as P4/5 teams so there's less incentive for us and, more importantly, 2) we've both been good enough for the last two decades that most G5 teams aren't going to pay an FCS team to beat them. As far as moving up, I'm sure both ADs want to move to the MWC as it's a more natural fit at this point and more money, but one MT team, much less two, doesn't bring enough eyeballs/clicks to the media rights package.
I hear that and it makes sense. I think I'm just wondering what the vision is for MSU and UM athletics in this new landscape is. Since it clearly doesn't include the MWC, is this it for the both of us? It's not a bad deal - winning and playing regional rivals is the name of the game - but are we just content letting Delaware and Missouri State and Sam Houston State and Jacksonville State pass over us? I know the geography thing is a factor there too. IDK, something just doesn't sit right about this, but it is still pretty good.
Great, another moving up thread. Haven't had one of these in 10 minutes.

"Pass over us" For what? Yay, they get to play for a chance at the "Who Cares Bowl" and a lot more debt for their programs.
Today is the day all of the major realignment changes become official. Pretty easy to see why it would be on someone's mind.

And "pass us over" for general recognition. Frankly, I'm mostly just bummed that, despite being better teams, better schools, and having better fanbases, teams like Kennesaw State and Sam Houston State are gonna be in the new CFB video game coming out in a couple weeks and we're not, but with everything else going on, it makes stability feel more like stagnation than anything else.
A video game!? Buy the game and pretend the Cal Berkeley team is the gris and you’ll be fine.
Pretend that a school that wears Blue and Gold. Has several former Bobcats. Is known for its laboratory sciences.

Is the Griz?
Their mascot is a grissly bear, get it?
Missoula has a former bobcat on their roster too.
What do the education offerings a school presents to athletes have to do with a football video game?
Okay, you got me on the school colors.


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Re: The Mountain West

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:50 pm

Image


"What's our job? Gettin the offense the ball! How we gonna do it? By any means necessary!"

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AFCAT
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Re: The Mountain West

Post by AFCAT » Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:54 pm

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2024 7:50 pm
Image
Image


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