Chambers & The Playoff Gameplan

[tetoncat]

Against EWU, Chambers had 190 total yards and accounted for 5 TD, while taking only 9 snaps. How can you not have a player with that kind of production and efficiency on the field more than he was against UM? He won two BSC POTW awards, despite his limited playing time this season. I've always thought the offense just seems to look smoother and seems more dynamic when he's on the field.

He’s not the Montana Golden Boy and that matters w/ boosters and the local community. Vigen & the University understands the importance of keeping those that feed them happy. It’s a sad reality but next year will be more of the same….then I’m looking forward to a reset at the QB position.

Why is everyone so insistent on giving Tommy literally 0 credit for what he's done on the field and in practice to earn his job. At the same time seemingly forgetting why Sean lost his job at Wyoming and transferred in the first place?

Sean is an electric player and a consumate teammate but putting him in full time isn't suddenly going to make our offense perfect. If he's the starter going forward so be it and I'll cheer him on but it's incredibly disingenuous to continue to parrot that Tommy is only playing or that people only like him because he's from Montana.

That's a good point. To me none of this is a knock on Tommy, which is why I've stated I'd like to see like a 60/40 Tommy to Sean split. I believe in Tommy but I also believe Chambers is one of the most dangerous weapons in the FCS period so when we lose a game where a guy I think is the most dangerous player in the FCS gets to touch than the ball less than 10% of the time the offense has the ball, well it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

One common denominator for the offense in the worst two losses - Idaho, and UM - is that we used Chambers less than at any other point during the season. I don't blame Tommy for those losses but it's easy to sit here and feel like we didn't put our best players on the field.

Can anyone really say that we are using our playmakers to the best of their abilities? I think that is the #1 reason for the Griz turnaround, they figured out how to get their best players the ball and built an offense around that after being unable to do so for the first 4 games.

Maybe we just have too much talent and there isn't enough snaps for everyone but man it sure feels like we should be using Tommy, Chambers, and Davis for a vast majority of the plays.

I totally agree. That's on House to figure out how to keep our offense in rhythm and that includes finding a way to get Sean in the game. I'm even willing to have the discussion he should get more snaps. My problem stems from people taking shots at Tommy and belittling what he's done for this program because he's a Montana kid. Especially since their main argument often is Sean "just looks more like a qb".

Tommy’s a great kid and a good QB. A significant part of what makes him a great player is his athleticism and ability to run. He’s not doing that like he used to. Whether that’s a coaching decision or his decision, idk, but he hasn’t been as effective this year as last year. I don’t think he’s starting because he’s from Montana, he’s starting because he’s the smartest QB on the roster, and generally isn’t turnover prone. A coach like Vigen that values ball control is going to play that. Chambers, to my uneducated eye, is a better fit for the players on the team offensively. He can still run the ball, but generally isn’t a great scrambler. He’s killer on play action, which this offense NEEDS to be great. He can play under the center and from shotgun. However, he makes absolutely dumb decisions more frequently than Tommy. He’s much more risk/reward as a player. Sometimes that’s going to work really well, sometimes it isn’t. It’s a tough coaching decision to make, and there’s a locker room dynamic they have to take into consideration as well. This isn’t Madden where you change starters and positions and it just works. Real people and real feelings.

And those turnovers or potential ones are likely the reason he doesn't play as much against top reams. If they believe we can overcome them vs poor teams but not good ones. Makes some sense but short sited when offense stalls.

[tetoncat]

Against EWU, Chambers had 190 total yards and accounted for 5 TD, while taking only 9 snaps. How can you not have a player with that kind of production and efficiency on the field more than he was against UM? He won two BSC POTW awards, despite his limited playing time this season. I've always thought the offense just seems to look smoother and seems more dynamic when he's on the field.

He’s not the Montana Golden Boy and that matters w/ boosters and the local community. Vigen & the University understands the importance of keeping those that feed them happy. It’s a sad reality but next year will be more of the same….then I’m looking forward to a reset at the QB position.

Ok, Dad. Your either a disgruntled parent or a player who shouldn't be posting. While I agree Chambers should be involved more, it is hard to argue that Mellott has not performed.

Hahaha! Thats a new one….I simply don’t think Tommy is anything then a very average QB at best. I’m sorry that offends the great people of Montana. But to assume I’m a Dad or Player is ludacris, thats in itself shows how homer this fan base can be over Tommy.

You are the one posting as if you have insider info and know how the locker room feels. What does my statement have to do with a Homer. What has Tommy done in wins and losses over 3 years to show he shouldn't be the guy. Hurt vs NDSU, lost to OSU, lost to SDSU after Chambers hurt and you could tell game plan was to use him, lost to SDSU injured during game, lost to Idaho with multiple drops, only loss he really struggled in is vs UM.

[GoldstoneCat]

Against EWU, Chambers had 190 total yards and accounted for 5 TD, while taking only 9 snaps. How can you not have a player with that kind of production and efficiency on the field more than he was against UM? He won two BSC POTW awards, despite his limited playing time this season. I've always thought the offense just seems to look smoother and seems more dynamic when he's on the field.

He’s not the Montana Golden Boy and that matters w/ boosters and the local community. Vigen & the University understands the importance of keeping those that feed them happy. It’s a sad reality but next year will be more of the same….then I’m looking forward to a reset at the QB position.

Why is everyone so insistent on giving Tommy literally 0 credit for what he's done on the field and in practice to earn his job. At the same time seemingly forgetting why Sean lost his job at Wyoming and transferred in the first place?

Sean is an electric player and a consumate teammate but putting him in full time isn't suddenly going to make our offense perfect. If he's the starter going forward so be it and I'll cheer him on but it's incredibly disingenuous to continue to parrot that Tommy is only playing or that people only like him because he's from Montana.

Did you watch Tommy throw the ball last game? He was well below average and he is an average true QB on his best day. Great kid, great role model, great athlete but very average QB.

Yes I saw him last game. I've also seen him the other 20 odd games he's played. He can make pretty much any throw. I know he'd also have much better numbers if his receivers made all the catches they should. Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

I stopped reading after you said Tommy can make all the throws. Sorry Man, but Montana Kid can’t make all the throws, not even close. Have a good day!

It's objectively true he can't make all the throws. He can make enough to win at this level but at least half if not more of the qbs we've played this year have more arm talent and it isn't the golden age for BSC qbs. What makes Tommy work is his athleticism, speed and short area quickness. He seems to be a good leader. But i tend to agree with you, when i watch i him i don't think "QB for a title contender." He's good enough to win one, i think, if we help him with good usage of his skills and by using chambers to at least give a defense something else to look at. I do have some thoughts on the Montana Golden boy thing but i think I'll save them until the playoff run is over, other than to say I'm not certain i agree with you but I'm not certain i don't at least partially either. I need to spend more time with it before i say anything.

[iaafan]

Against EWU, Chambers had 190 total yards and accounted for 5 TD, while taking only 9 snaps. How can you not have a player with that kind of production and efficiency on the field more than he was against UM? He won two BSC POTW awards, despite his limited playing time this season. I've always thought the offense just seems to look smoother and seems more dynamic when he's on the field.

He’s not the Montana Golden Boy and that matters w/ boosters and the local community. Vigen & the University understands the importance of keeping those that feed them happy. It’s a sad reality but next year will be more of the same….then I’m looking forward to a reset at the QB position.

Why is everyone so insistent on giving Tommy literally 0 credit for what he's done on the field and in practice to earn his job. At the same time seemingly forgetting why Sean lost his job at Wyoming and transferred in the first place?

Sean is an electric player and a consumate teammate but putting him in full time isn't suddenly going to make our offense perfect. If he's the starter going forward so be it and I'll cheer him on but it's incredibly disingenuous to continue to parrot that Tommy is only playing or that people only like him because he's from Montana.

Did you watch Tommy throw the ball last game? He was well below average and he is an average true QB on his best day. Great kid, great role model, great athlete but very average QB.

Yes I saw him last game. I've also seen him the other 20 odd games he's played. He can make pretty much any throw. I know he'd also have much better numbers if his receivers made all the catches they should. Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

I stopped reading after you said Tommy can make all the throws. Sorry Man, but Montana Kid can’t make all the throws, not even close. Have a good day!

It's objectively true he can't make all the throws. He can make enough to win at this level but at least half if not more of the qbs we've played this year have more arm talent and it isn't the golden age for BSC qbs. What makes Tommy work is his athleticism, speed and short area quickness. He seems to be a good leader. But i tend to agree with you, when i watch i him i don't think "QB for a title contender." He's good enough to win one, i think, if we help him with good usage of his skills and by using chambers to at least give a defense something else to look at. I do have some thoughts on the Montana Golden boy thing but i think I'll save them until the playoff run is over, other than to say I'm not certain i agree with you but I'm not certain i don't at least partially either. I need to spend more time with it before i say anything.

I think you should spend more time pondering how insane this sounds.

[tetoncat]

Does our offense change in terms of under center, play action, and different route trees because both QB's can't do portions of it, one QB is just much better at portions, or staff just uses them that way. That's be whether each have looked better when other is hurt, the full plan is open and they worked it. Both healthy sometimes feels we are much more limited because they each only have half the gameplan. So if situation of game doesn't get Chambers in it is tough.

[PapaG]

I really dislike this tool of coach/person.

"You look at Senior Night (against Eastern Washington), that was a little bit different with them because we were up so much and there just happened to be plays. It was Senior Night, trying to get him involved on some things that were wide open."

That's why they were trying to get him involved? That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Even if he didn't want to talk about gameplans and his lack of playing time, come up with something better. Dude is absolutely clueless.

I still would like an explanation for why Sean was taking any snaps down 37-7 against the Gris with 5 minutes left in the game. That was so stupid on a few levels.

[technoCat]

Does our offense change in terms of under center, play action, and different route trees because both QB's can't do portions of it, one QB is just much better at portions, or staff just uses them that way. That's be whether each have looked better when other is hurt, the full plan is open and they worked it. Both healthy sometimes feels we are much more limited because they each only have half the gameplan. So if situation of game doesn't get Chambers in it is tough.

This is a great question. People say that Tommy can't make the throws but when he is in all of the routes are to the outside or fades. The few times he has thrown over the middle it has worked. A couple times on the play action that everyone wants. Chambers seems to get mostly deep balls or seam passes. Would like to see both get to throw some quick slants, especially against the blitz.

[ilovethecats]

I really dislike this tool of coach/person.

"You look at Senior Night (against Eastern Washington), that was a little bit different with them because we were up so much and there just happened to be plays. It was Senior Night, trying to get him involved on some things that were wide open."

That's why they were trying to get him involved? That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Even if he didn't want to talk about gameplans and his lack of playing time, come up with something better. Dude is absolutely clueless.

I still would like an explanation for why Sean was taking any snaps down 37-7 against the Gris with 5 minutes left in the game. That was so stupid on a few levels.

Completely agree. That game was a disaster but that move just pissed me off.

[iaafan]

I really dislike this tool of coach/person.

"You look at Senior Night (against Eastern Washington), that was a little bit different with them because we were up so much and there just happened to be plays. It was Senior Night, trying to get him involved on some things that were wide open."

That's why they were trying to get him involved? That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Even if he didn't want to talk about gameplans and his lack of playing time, come up with something better. Dude is absolutely clueless.

I still would like an explanation for why Sean was taking any snaps down 37-7 against the Gris with 5 minutes left in the game. That was so stupid on a few levels.

Completely agree. That game was a disaster but that move just pissed me off.

Me too. Can’t believe they just gave up on Tommy like that.

[ilovethecats]

I really dislike this tool of coach/person.

"You look at Senior Night (against Eastern Washington), that was a little bit different with them because we were up so much and there just happened to be plays. It was Senior Night, trying to get him involved on some things that were wide open."

That's why they were trying to get him involved? That might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Even if he didn't want to talk about gameplans and his lack of playing time, come up with something better. Dude is absolutely clueless.

I still would like an explanation for why Sean was taking any snaps down 37-7 against the Gris with 5 minutes left in the game. That was so stupid on a few levels.

Completely agree. That game was a disaster but that move just pissed me off.

Me too. Can’t believe they just gave up on Tommy like that.

[Randy M Drivel]

Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

These photos are from the two early drives where Tommy threw it down field to Provience.

[technoCat]

Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

These photos are from the two early drives where Tommy threw it down field to Provience.

So everyone is pretty much covered. He might be able to drill it to Trimble on the first one but it does actually look like Provience should be getting some separation at that point. The second one he should probably looking at the deep post on the left. Guy over the middle would get leveled but might get it.

So I'm going to focus on the second one. Do we think Tommy isn't making his reads or that he was told that was the matchup he wanted? Was that the one the defender didn't let Provience come back on?

[2015cat]

Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

These photos are from the two early drives where Tommy threw it down field to Provience.

So everyone is pretty much covered. He might be able to drill it to Trimble on the first one but it does actually look like Provience should be getting some separation at that point. The second one he should probably looking at the deep post on the left. Guy over the middle would get leveled but might get it.

So I'm going to focus on the second one. Do we think Tommy isn't making his reads or that he was told that was the matchup he wanted? Was that the one the defender didn't let Provience come back on?

We also don't what the progression is, what the route concept is, is the concept run correctly. Not to mention a screen shot shows very little in the whole picture.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

These photos are from the two early drives where Tommy threw it down field to Provience.

So everyone is pretty much covered. He might be able to drill it to Trimble on the first one but it does actually look like Provience should be getting some separation at that point. The second one he should probably looking at the deep post on the left. Guy over the middle would get leveled but might get it.

So I'm going to focus on the second one. Do we think Tommy isn't making his reads or that he was told that was the matchup he wanted? Was that the one the defender didn't let Provience come back on?

Hard disagree on the first one. Trimble is wide open, ball should be out by then. Biggest complaint is that Trimble needs to be more aware of the first down market. Don’t run a route a yard short.

Second picture everybody looks pretty well covered to me.

Huge caveat here. It is difficult to “analyze” these plays based on still shots. A player who seems open often isn’t, and vice versa.

[BelligerentBobcat]

Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

These photos are from the two early drives where Tommy threw it down field to Provience.

So everyone is pretty much covered. He might be able to drill it to Trimble on the first one but it does actually look like Provience should be getting some separation at that point. The second one he should probably looking at the deep post on the left. Guy over the middle would get leveled but might get it.

So I'm going to focus on the second one. Do we think Tommy isn't making his reads or that he was told that was the matchup he wanted? Was that the one the defender didn't let Provience come back on?

We also don't what the progression is, what the route concept is, is the concept run correctly. Not to mention a screen shot shows very little in the whole picture.

A JT O’Sullivan reference? Here?! I’m in love.

[BleedingBLue]

Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

These photos are from the two early drives where Tommy threw it down field to Provience.

So everyone is pretty much covered. He might be able to drill it to Trimble on the first one but it does actually look like Provience should be getting some separation at that point. The second one he should probably looking at the deep post on the left. Guy over the middle would get leveled but might get it.

So I'm going to focus on the second one. Do we think Tommy isn't making his reads or that he was told that was the matchup he wanted? Was that the one the defender didn't let Provience come back on?

Looks to me on the 1st one as if Trimble and McCulloch would be available for 1st downs. Easy for me to say with screenshots though. On the 2nd, McCulloch looks like he will be open on the slant, and Taco looks like he will be open in the seam. Tommy is clearly looking downfield on both though. Doesn't seem to be reading anything. He may have been told who to hit.

[Helcat72]

I feel that if we go 3 and out starting the game repeatedly like we did against Idaho, there won't be a lot of opportunities to play Sean in a 60/40 type of breakdown. It becomes a lot easier to use Sean if we start moving the sticks.

[Randy M Drivel]

Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

These photos are from the two early drives where Tommy threw it down field to Provience.

So everyone is pretty much covered. He might be able to drill it to Trimble on the first one but it does actually look like Provience should be getting some separation at that point. The second one he should probably looking at the deep post on the left. Guy over the middle would get leveled but might get it.

So I'm going to focus on the second one. Do we think Tommy isn't making his reads or that he was told that was the matchup he wanted? Was that the one the defender didn't let Provience come back on?

We also don't what the progression is, what the route concept is, is the concept run correctly. Not to mention a screen shot shows very little in the whole picture.

The OP asked if there were open receivers, the stills show there were some pretty open receivers, regardless of concept, yadda, yadda, yadda. I don't know of a better way to try and convey that simply on a message board? I guess you could say "Yeah there were, trust me" or "go watch the game film", but that sure isn't going to prove much either. They game plan sucked, and I don't want to pile on Tommy because I love the kid, but he made some suspect decisions at critical moments in that game. And yeah, maybe the decision of where to throw wasn't his and came from on high, but that's pure speculation.

[GoldstoneCat]

Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

These photos are from the two early drives where Tommy threw it down field to Provience.

So everyone is pretty much covered. He might be able to drill it to Trimble on the first one but it does actually look like Provience should be getting some separation at that point. The second one he should probably looking at the deep post on the left. Guy over the middle would get leveled but might get it.

So I'm going to focus on the second one. Do we think Tommy isn't making his reads or that he was told that was the matchup he wanted? Was that the one the defender didn't let Provience come back on?

We also don't what the progression is, what the route concept is, is the concept run correctly. Not to mention a screen shot shows very little in the whole picture.

The OP asked if there were open receivers, the stills show there were some pretty open receivers, regardless of concept, yadda, yadda, yadda. I don't know of a better way to try and convey that simply on a message board? I guess you could say "Yeah there were, trust me" or "go watch the game film", but that sure isn't going to prove much either. They game plan sucked, and I don't want to pile on Tommy because I love the kid, but he made some suspect decisions at critical moments in that game. And yeah, maybe the decision of where to throw wasn't his and came from on high, but that's pure speculation.

If he's being told "throw it here no matter what" from upstairs or the sideline at this point in his career that's a worse indictment of his QB skills than the fact that he missed some open reads.

[GoldstoneCat]

Against EWU, Chambers had 190 total yards and accounted for 5 TD, while taking only 9 snaps. How can you not have a player with that kind of production and efficiency on the field more than he was against UM? He won two BSC POTW awards, despite his limited playing time this season. I've always thought the offense just seems to look smoother and seems more dynamic when he's on the field.

He’s not the Montana Golden Boy and that matters w/ boosters and the local community. Vigen & the University understands the importance of keeping those that feed them happy. It’s a sad reality but next year will be more of the same….then I’m looking forward to a reset at the QB position.

Why is everyone so insistent on giving Tommy literally 0 credit for what he's done on the field and in practice to earn his job. At the same time seemingly forgetting why Sean lost his job at Wyoming and transferred in the first place?

Sean is an electric player and a consumate teammate but putting him in full time isn't suddenly going to make our offense perfect. If he's the starter going forward so be it and I'll cheer him on but it's incredibly disingenuous to continue to parrot that Tommy is only playing or that people only like him because he's from Montana.

Did you watch Tommy throw the ball last game? He was well below average and he is an average true QB on his best day. Great kid, great role model, great athlete but very average QB.

Yes I saw him last game. I've also seen him the other 20 odd games he's played. He can make pretty much any throw. I know he'd also have much better numbers if his receivers made all the catches they should. Nobody ever answered my question about whether receivers were getting open in the last game and what kind of route concepts were being run on those "bad" plays. Guess it easier to just call someone an average qb than dig into that stuff.

I stopped reading after you said Tommy can make all the throws. Sorry Man, but Montana Kid can’t make all the throws, not even close. Have a good day!

It's objectively true he can't make all the throws. He can make enough to win at this level but at least half if not more of the qbs we've played this year have more arm talent and it isn't the golden age for BSC qbs. What makes Tommy work is his athleticism, speed and short area quickness. He seems to be a good leader. But i tend to agree with you, when i watch i him i don't think "QB for a title contender." He's good enough to win one, i think, if we help him with good usage of his skills and by using chambers to at least give a defense something else to look at. I do have some thoughts on the Montana Golden boy thing but i think I'll save them until the playoff run is over, other than to say I'm not certain i agree with you but I'm not certain i don't at least partially either. I need to spend more time with it before i say anything.

I think you should spend more time pondering how insane this sounds.

OK I'll bite, assuming you're referring to the last part. There's 2 explanations. One is that a first-year head coach caught lightning in a bottle with a freshman QB who led us as far as we've been in 35 years, instantly became a cult hero in the state and generated a new and unprecedented level of interest in the program. Now he feels pressure to keep playing said cult hero. The second is that Vigen feels Tommy gives us the best chance to win by being the starting qb and playing most of the snaps at that all-important position, and is acting accordingly. I lean toward the latter but knowing that Vigen recruited Wentz and coached Josh Allen, and the fact that I personally don't think Tommy is any more than an average QB I'm willing to consider the former. The other part of my point is i think our roster is good enough to win with said average QB if utilized properly. so insane.