UM Wintersession gets ringing endorsement from UM Athletics

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:13 pm

This ad has been printed in the Kaimin. I couldn't help but laugh at the irony - although maybe they should have used the basketball team!

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 3:52 pm

I wonder if one of our visiting griz "experts" could provide for us the specifics of the mysterious "Winter session"?

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:09 pm

El_Gato wrote:I wonder if one of our visiting griz "experts" could provide for us the specifics of the mysterious "Winter session"?

I never took any wintersession courses when I was at UM, but my understanding is that it is essentially the same format as a summer school session: if you're taking one three-credit class, you go to class for about eight hours per day for three weeks, probably with an exam at the end of each week. (When I did summer courses at Montana Tech, the semester was longer and the classes shorter; I believe it was five weeks / four hours per day / four days per week for a three credit course, but you get the idea).

I know Cat fans like to pick on UM's wintersession, but my understanding is that, depending on what course you're taking, it can actually be fairly demanding academically. I actually got my lowest grade in college (a D) in an upper-level math course that I took the summer after my freshman year at Tech. The class was a bit over my head at the time, and there was just no way I could keep up with the work with it being taught on such an accelerated schedule. I imagine UM's wintersession could be the same, depending on what course one is taking.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:10 pm

Can't say that I know anything about it, except that I didn't see it as being as big of a deal as cat fans make it out to be. I really don't think it is intended for athletes specifically, but students, and probably more likely non-traditionals.
I know how it is, dig deep for something to criticize UM, no matter how minuscule or irrelevant. I don't suspect we would hear the same criticisms if MSU had intersession.

hokeyfine · Post by **hokeyfine** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:19 pm

no winter session=no kamaar davis

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:22 pm

Jah and Grizlaw,

I'm CERTAIN that if the roles were reversed, there'd be a # of griz fans "taking shots" at us just as some of us have at the Griz. I'm not ignorant enough to think that what is going on at dUMb violates any NCAA regulations but even you guys have to admit that it sounds very odd that a kid can spend the entire fall semester in a manner that suddenly results in his being suspended from the BBall team for academic reasons; then, he attends "intersession classes" for 3 weeks and SHAZAAAM!!! He's eligible again...

grizband · Post by **grizband** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:22 pm

I have taken a Wintersession course. There are two sides to the coin here, as I believe it has both positive and negative aspects.

First of all, Wintersession courses run for three weeks, 5 days a week, 3 or 4 hourses per day. Many courses offered during the Wintersession aren't offered during the regular course schedule during fall and spring semesters. This gives students a chance to take courses they wouldn't normally be offered, or teachers a chance to experiment with courses that may be added to the main department offerings. UM offers a few travel courses during the Wintersession which are coordinated with classes during the fall (studying the literature of England during the fall, then taking a trip to England during Wintersession). These are what I believe the good aspects of the courses.

Material in the class I took was not easier than what would be offered in a normal course, and may have been more difficult, since 2 projects had to be completed in 3 weeks rather than a semester. However, I imagine that some "core" classes that are offered during the Wintersession may be dumbed down, due to time and desire. This is where the negative view of them comes from, when people like Kamar Davis take a course to remain academically eligible.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:52 pm

El_Gato wrote:Jah and Grizlaw,

I'm CERTAIN that if the roles were reversed, there'd be a # of griz fans "taking shots" at us just as some of us have at the Griz. I'm not ignorant enough to think that what is going on at dUMb violates any NCAA regulations but even you guys have to admit that it sounds very odd that a kid can spend the entire fall semester in a manner that suddenly results in his being suspended from the BBall team for academic reasons; then, he attends "intersession classes" for 3 weeks and SHAZAAAM!!! He's eligible again...

Sure, some fans on both sides will talk smack about anything and everything. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with UM having an intercession, though, any more than there's anything wrong with any school having a summer session. It's not intended specifically for athletes, but if an athlete is one course short of being academically eligible for a sport and he can make it up during intercession, then why shouldn't he? As long as the courses are legit (and I don't believe anyone has suggested that they are not), I don't see what the problem is.

UMclassof2002 · Post by **UMclassof2002** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:59 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
El_Gato wrote:Jah and Grizlaw,

I'm CERTAIN that if the roles were reversed, there'd be a # of griz fans "taking shots" at us just as some of us have at the Griz. I'm not ignorant enough to think that what is going on at dUMb violates any NCAA regulations but even you guys have to admit that it sounds very odd that a kid can spend the entire fall semester in a manner that suddenly results in his being suspended from the BBall team for academic reasons; then, he attends "intersession classes" for 3 weeks and SHAZAAAM!!! He's eligible again...

Sure, some fans on both sides will talk smack about anything and everything. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with UM having an intercession, though, any more than there's anything wrong with any school having a summer session. It's not intended specifically for athletes, but if an athlete is one course short of being academically eligible for a sport and he can make it up during intercession, then why shouldn't he? As long as the courses are legit (and I don't believe anyone has suggested that they are not), I don't see what the problem is.

It is also helpful if you are one course short of graduating at the end of the fall semester. You can get it knocked out in three weeks and not have to deal with another entire semester for one class. This is called being responsive to the needs of the student body while still maintaining the academic standards set forth by the Board of Regents.

"Thanks UM!"

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:55 pm

ya'll need to get a life.......

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:01 am

Man, let me be the first to say wintersession bl0ws. I have taken three of the winter classes (and summer school), and winter session classes are only easier because you have no other courses. Other than that it is three hours of pure he11. I got a rare C in an upper division winter course. It seems that the professors think "Well they are expecting it to be easy, we can't have that!" I have known several MSU'rs who have taken winter session credits here, and GASP they didn't exactly "rock the catspah" pun intended. Winter session is no cake walk, if you disagree fill free to spend your Christmas break attending a course. This is assuming that some of the people on this board actually go to college, which is probably a poor assumption.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:39 pm

Topher wrote:Man, let me be the first to say wintersession bl0ws. I have taken three of the winter classes (and summer school), and winter session classes are only easier because you have no other courses. Other than that it is three hours of pure he11. I got a rare C in an upper division winter course. It seems that the professors think "Well they are expecting it to be easy, we can't have that!" I have known several MSU'rs who have taken winter session credits here, and GASP they didn't exactly "rock the catspah" pun intended. Winter session is no cake walk, if you disagree fill free to spend your Christmas break attending a course. This is assuming that some of the people on this board actually go to college, which is probably a poor assumption.

This is a completely absurd post in more ways than one. You are correct in stating that Wintersession blows, but you fail to see the reasons why. It's called "academic integrity." This is the sort of thing you should only see from a community college, not a respected state university. No one with any sort of integrity can claim that a student can learn as much in 3 weeks as they can in a 15-week semester. I have projects that take longer than 3 weeks (and I am proud that my curriculum doesn't use the Wintersession). Plain and simple, it is just another way for King George to rake a few more bucks out of the lowest common denominator. The fact that it has benefitted the men's basketball team more than once is just a nifty little bonus.

While we're at it, I fail to see how MSU students could take Wintersession courses at UM, considering the MSU spring semester starts while the Wintersession is still going? If they are taking those courses and are enrolled back in Bozeman for spring semester at the same time, I think that speaks pretty clearly about their level of academic integrity, or lack thereof.

Your last sentence speaks volumes about your character and integrity.

Robcat · Post by **Robcat** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:06 pm

Bozone, that says it all

UMclassof2002 · Post by **UMclassof2002** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:39 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
Topher wrote:Man, let me be the first to say wintersession bl0ws. I have taken three of the winter classes (and summer school), and winter session classes are only easier because you have no other courses. Other than that it is three hours of pure he11. I got a rare C in an upper division winter course. It seems that the professors think "Well they are expecting it to be easy, we can't have that!" I have known several MSU'rs who have taken winter session credits here, and GASP they didn't exactly "rock the catspah" pun intended. Winter session is no cake walk, if you disagree fill free to spend your Christmas break attending a course. This is assuming that some of the people on this board actually go to college, which is probably a poor assumption.
This is a completely absurd post in more ways than one. You are correct in stating that Wintersession blows, but you fail to see the reasons why. It's called "academic integrity." This is the sort of thing you should only see from a community college, not a respected state university. No one with any sort of integrity can claim that a student can learn as much in 3 weeks as they can in a 15-week semester. I have projects that take longer than 3 weeks (and I am proud that my curriculum doesn't use the Wintersession). Plain and simple, it is just another way for King George to rake a few more bucks out of the lowest common denominator. The fact that it has benefitted the men's basketball team more than once is just a nifty little bonus.

While we're at it, I fail to see how MSU students could take Wintersession courses at UM, considering the MSU spring semester starts while the Wintersession is still going? If they are taking those courses and are enrolled back in Bozeman for spring semester at the same time, I think that speaks pretty clearly about their level of academic integrity, or lack thereof.

Your last sentence speaks volumes about your character and integrity.

Could you please say integrity one more time?

How can you claim that people cannot learn the same amount in an accelerated course than in a normal course? If the requirements for passing are the same in both instances, it would follow logically that a three week course is HARDER than a 15 week course and the only reason people can succeed at that pace is that it is the only course they are taking at the time.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:44 pm

UMclassof2002 wrote:Could you please say integrity one more time?

Just like any good teacher, when I say something more than once it usually means I am making an important point.

UMclassof2002 wrote:How can you claim that people cannot learn the same amount in an accelerated course than in a normal course? If the requirements for passing are the same in both instances, it would follow logically that a three week course is HARDER than a 15 week course and the only reason people can succeed at that pace is that it is the only course they are taking at the time.

I don't care if the requirements for passing a course are the same, although that wouldn't say much for the 15-week course. A large part of learning is the requirement of time. Anything worth learning takes time to process the information.

If this is not the case, why doesn't UM really try to rake in the money and run 20 3-week semesters per year?

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:47 pm

Hey Topher, I'm an MSU student with a 3.7 GPA. I'm sure that there are lots of well-educated people on here, even some of the UM ones. Here's a quote for you. Mark Twain said "It's better to be presumed a fool and keep your mouth shut than to open it and remove any doubt." Discretion is the better part of valor, buddy. That was low. By saying something like that, you show your own level of education.

Topher · Post by **Topher** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:58 pm

Hi I'm the point of my previous post, and you missed me. Low blow? You guys put up a post about my university methods and expect nothing? If you don't like, DON'T GO! The actual point was that most of the posts on here appear to be from people who are over the college age level (not necessarily that they never attended) So why would they be conserned about the winter session offered at UM. And to say that you cannot learn material in three weeks as well as you learn in fifteen is well ok DUH, but within that three weeks can you learn a sufficient amount of the topic? It depends on the topic, and yes sometimes you can. If you are serious about what you are doing, which believe it or not actually happens at the U of M a time or two. (Gasp a serious University of Montana student....NO!, it cannot be) Don't question my integrity on of all things a Smack Board for sports, this is the last post you will get on this topic. Don't like winter session, DON'T GO that is the point.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:09 pm

No, the point is that all of our tax dollars subsidize the Wintersession courses, and frankly I don't like that. I am also a little embarrassed that the university I attend graduate school at sinks to such a low level just to make a buck. The mission of a university is not to give students a "sufficient amount" of material to satisfy an accreditation committee, it is to educate their students in the best manner possible.

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:33 pm

I have no intention of getting into the debate over Wintersession, but you have to admit that is funny given the Kamarr Davis situation!

UMclassof2002 · Post by **UMclassof2002** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:22 am

BozoneCat:

So let me understand this. You dislike the University of Montana, and yet you go to school there.

Please explain.