State of Montana Basketball/Personal Shots/Etc.

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BozoneCat
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Post by BozoneCat » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:22 am

mthoops wrote:The kid has been offered a scholarship to Griz football. Which he recently, respectfully turned down.
There is absolutely no possible way that is true. Didn't you know that not a single person has ever turned down a scholarship offer from the grizzly football program? Ever! Apparently, the griz were going after this kid early, but they lost all interest when they found out his test scores were doctored, his 40 times weren't what they originally thought, he doesn't like little kids and kicks dogs, and he unwittingly just has really ugly hair. If anyone else gets him for anything, it sure as heck isn't because he chose them instead of playing football for the friz. Yep! :wink:


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ballzdeep
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Post by ballzdeep » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:26 am

Can we all agree that Montana High School basketball has gone down hill in the past 10 years? I mean the talent is just NOT there. mthoops you said that you interviewed Jack a few times, I was just wondering what paper you write for and where can I see the article? Please don't tell me your Jack's locker partner and you write for the school paper!!!!!! :?



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Post by mthoops » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:43 am

Ballzdeep,

I don't write for a newspaper. I was doing a TV spot for ESPN's 50 Greatest Atheletes of All Time.



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Post by mslacat » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:48 am

ballzdeep wrote:Can we all agree that Montana High School basketball has gone down hill in the past 10 years? I mean the talent is just NOT there. mthoops you said that you interviewed Jack a few times, I was just wondering what paper you write for and where can I see the article? Please don't tell me your Jack's locker partner and you write for the school paper!!!!!! :?
Seyfert recruited by Pac-10 schools
Chavez one of the most talented athletes since Kysco
Henkle signed w/ Eastern Washington recruited by over 10 D-1 schools
Nick Dissly staring as a Soph for MSU
Carson Dur (OK not an all star but a solid players for us and 3rd D-1 of his class)
Jordan Haquet signed with Griz listed w/ scout.com and Rivals as one of the top 25 pf in the west last year.

I do not think it was all that down this year was said to be lacking stars but Jack McGillis has come on strong, and don't be surprised id Charlie Cox makes a D-1 team thru the JC route. , Next year though looks pretty bleak, this years Sophmore class has some possiblities from Greatfalls and Butte, and the freshman class has some possible big stars.

BTW. If anyone cares I will attest to the fact that MtHoops is very much intuned with the McGillis family, and his recruiting.
Last edited by mslacat on Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:51 am, edited 2 times in total.


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ballzdeep
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Post by ballzdeep » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:48 pm

mslacat- The fact that you listed Chaves as one of the best to come out of MT destroyes your crediblity. He hardly even played for the Griz before losing his scholorship b/c he couldn't make the grade. I can't comment about Seyfert and the others but I do know that if you are using Chavez as the measuring stick than Montanta basketball has fallen even farther than expected! mthoops some of us in here think it is fun to have a serious debates/conversations about the topic at hand so if you don't mine GROW UP and quite wasting everyones time. Based on your last entry I can tell you are not being serious about anything you write. I think you have some good points and insight so cut the crap please.
Last edited by ballzdeep on Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by MSU88 » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:56 pm

Also.....for what it is worth.....the value of a high school kid in Montana at the D 1 level is interesting. There are many kids out there that can put up good numbers, scoring. Count the number of shots they take at the high school level and the poor competition they almost always face each wekk, even as high as the Class A level (Laurel).

D1 schools in Montana are looking for the Montana player that is very athletic, talented and can play TEAM ball. Look at Dissly...averaged 14 points a game as a senior on a very good team that had balanced scoring on all five starters. Durr was the same. Although he averaged more points a game, he had a great supporting cast and his numbers scoring were at 20 points per game. Both of these players are athletes who are good at all the facets of the game and play TEAM ball. Both players finished their senior seasons undefeated state champions. That is why they were signed early over big high school scorers in 2003.

So, when you look for the great Montana players, look past the scorers and look at the pure athletes.

:)



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Post by mthoops » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:59 pm

Ballzdeep...
Speaking of growing up and being serious...Nice screen name. Way to jump into a topic thread that has been going on for some time now and start telling people how to post. You obviously had a goal in mind when you joined Bobcat Nation yesterday.

MSU88...
I understand where you're coming from. McGillis was a late bloomer and has come on strong and very quick over the season. His upside is tremendous. The Cats and Griz are going to have a battle over him.



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Post by Cat Pride » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:02 pm

bd - I think you are the one that needs the reality check. mthoops is simply relaying info on McGillis - we all appreciate that. I think you are the one going too far.

As for Mike Chavez, he is undeniably one of the best high school basketball talents to ever play in MT. The fact that he hasnt panned out at UM has no reflection on his outstanding high school career.



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Post by mslacat » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:21 pm

ballzdeep wrote:mslacat- The fact that you listed Chaves as one of the best to come out of MT destroyes your crediblity. He hardly even played for the Griz before losing his scholorship b/c he couldn't make the grade. I can't comment about Seyfert and the others but I do know that if you are using Chavez as the measuring stick than Montanta basketball has fallen even farther than expected! mthoops some of us in here think it is fun to have a serious debates/conversations about the topic at hand so if you don't mine GROW UP and quite wasting everyones time. Based on your last entry I can tell you are not being serious about anything you write. I think you have some good points and insight so cut the crap please.
Chavez played as a true Freshman and contributed to his D-1 team! You asked about D-1 athletes and Chavez was/is as good of basketball player to come out of Montana in a long time. Chavez's problems are not related what so ever to his basketball skills or life, they have to do with problems many young men have coming from small schools/communities, leaving home and starting a new life in a communtiy that is far different from where you are from. Chavez was recruited by colleges from New Mexico, Montana, California, Texas and Washington.

I do not mind people having disagreements with me and you want to argue the other side, but the line destroyes your crediblity I have a problem with.


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ballzdeep
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Post by ballzdeep » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:23 pm

catpride/mslacat- we are have a conversation and we are all have the right to express or opinion. You can't list Chavez as one of the best in Montana when there are players in the past who have similar highschool sats and HAVE made it in D-1 school. The fact that he DIDN'T make it should eliminate him from the Sprinkes, Warhanks, Hatlers, and JR. Camels. Do you see my point?
Last edited by ballzdeep on Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by ballzdeep » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:31 pm

mslacat- If you say that mthoops is a reliable source than so be it, you must have your reasons. mthoops it doesn't take long to get caught up on topic at hand because I have read the past messages. So unless you are meeting at another website I am just as informed as you about whats going on in here.



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Post by mslacat » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:36 pm

ballzdeep wrote:catpride/mslacat- we are have a conversation and we are all have the right to express or opinion. You can't list Chavez as one of the best in Montana when there are players in the past who have similar highschool sats and HAVE made it in D-1 school. The fact that he DIDN'T make it should eliminate him from the Sprinkes, Warhanks, Hatlers, and JR. Camels. Do you see my point?
And the conversation that In thought we were having was related to Montana Kids who
had enough skills, athletic ability, and Physical attributes to be D-1 athletes. From the
perspective of highschool players who have those skills to move on to the D-1 level
Chavez definitely belongs on that list. If you are talking about Montana highschool
players who have successful D-1 career then the Jury is still out on Chavez although it
looks very grim at this point. I will once again say, that the problems Chavez is having
is not related what so ever to his ability to contribute as a basketball player at the D-1
level but to those many student face.


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Post by ballzdeep » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:50 pm

With Chavez being considered one of the best prep players ever in the state, the fact of the matter remains that high school baskebtall talent in MT has been on the decline, my original argument. I look at former MT high school players that played prep ball in MT in the early to mid-nineties and then went on to play for either the Frizzlies or Bobcats. That list includes: JR Camel, Ryan Dick, Matt Kempfert, Mike Warhank , Kirk Walker, Matt Siedensticker, Bob Olson, Scott Hatler, Adam Leachman, Dan Sullivan, Danny Sprinkle, Justin Brown. As of recently you have had players such as: Kevin Criswell, Sam Riddle, Mike Chavez, Brian Lynch, John Seyfert, Jordan Hasquet, Nick Dissly, Casey Durham, Carsonn Durr, Danny Faborg, Pete Conway. Based on this list and their college careers, I think my argument is quite obvious. My feeling is that currently these high school stars are playing against inferior competition and this must be taken into account when discussing potential Big Sky material. A good number of high school kids as of late have had exceptional high school careers only to be role players at the D-1 level, or end up leaving to go play at a lower level.



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Post by mthoops » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:50 pm

Any current Griz basketball player will tell you that Chavez has the talent and potential to be one of the best Griz players ever.

Ballzdeep: The overall talent may be down. It will always fluctuate. However, that doesn't take away from the very good players in the State's talent. Just because their competition may be sub-par, doesn't mean that having 6 3pointers, alley-oop and 360 dunks in games should be overlooked. There are legitimate D1 players in Montana this year and the Cats and Griz are aware of them.
Last edited by mthoops on Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post by mslacat » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:59 pm

ballzdeep wrote:With Chavez being considered one of the best prep players ever in the state, the fact of the matter remains that high school baskebtall talent in MT has been on the decline, my original argument. I look at former MT high school players that played prep ball in MT in the early to mid-nineties and then went on to play for either the Frizzlies or Bobcats. That list includes: JR Camel, Ryan Dick, Matt Kempfert, Mike Warhank , Kirk Walker, Matt Siedensticker, Bob Olson, Scott Hatler, Adam Leachman, Dan Sullivan, Danny Sprinkle, Justin Brown. As of recently you have had players such as: Kevin Criswell, Sam Riddle, Mike Chavez, Brian Lynch, John Seyfert, Jordan Hasquet, Nick Dissly, Casey Durham, Carsonn Durr, Danny Faborg, Pete Conway. Based on this list and their college careers, I think my argument is quite obvious. My feeling is that currently these high school stars are playing against inferior competition and this must be taken into account when discussing potential Big Sky material. A good number of high school kids as of late have had exceptional high school careers only to be role players at the D-1 level, or end up leaving to go play at a lower level.
It is far too, early to compair your second group becuase over half of them still have elligility remaining. I will say though, it would not surprise me that in any give 5 year period that there is a dip in talent here or there, just keep your kids from playing video games.


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Post by Cat Pride » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:12 pm

I am now confused as to what bd is arguing. Are you saying that Chavez isnt one of the best prep players in MT history, or are you saying the talent pool is weakening over the last 10 years?

I'd say you are off in both topics. For your information bd, 3 of the best high school players to ever play basketball in MT never made it at UM/MSU. Jonathon Takes Enemy, Elvis Old Bull and Mike Chavez.

Every year someone from MT steps up as a legit D-1 player. This year it looks like McGillis and possibly Bullock at Skyview. Next year may be down, but 2007 will offer Howard from GFH and that Butte kid. How many frosh and sophs are playing significant minutes on AA teams right now? That should tell you the caliber of kid coming up the ranks in the years to come.



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Post by ballzdeep » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:16 pm

mthoops- I'm not tring to be disrespectful but it's hard to take anything you write at face value. Example: Based on your past messages it's easy to tell you are pulling for Jack McGillis, You claim to have inside info about him but when I asked where I could find YOUR interview w/ him you give a bogus answer implying you work for ESPN, which I don't believe. I would think that if you where really pulling for him you could and would produce the article. You stated you interviewed him and I would really like to read it is this possible? mslacat quick question: If Chaves played in an all-star game with the previously mentioned do you think he would score more than 15pts?



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Post by mslacat » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:36 pm

ballzdeep wrote:mthoops- I'm not tring to be disrespectful but it's hard to take anything you write at face value. Example: Based on your past messages it's easy to tell you are pulling for Jack McGillis, You claim to have inside info about him but when I asked where I could find YOUR interview w/ him you give a bogus answer implying you work for ESPN, which I don't believe. I would think that if you where really pulling for him you could and would produce the article. You stated you interviewed him and I would really like to read it is this possible? mslacat quick question: If Chaves played in an all-star game with the previously mentioned do you think he would score more than 15pts?
Depends on how tough the competition was. Chavez could score in the 30's if needed,
but he was more known for his other great skills. He was the best passing 6-7 highschool
player I have ever seen. He could have 12 points and 10 assists if needed. I would like
to point out that the summer between his junior senior year he played on an all star team
made up primarily Washington seniors. The team feature a top 25 national player Sean
Mellon (now playing for Gonzaga) as well as many other top Washington players, most
of who are playing college ball now. The coaches told Chavez they had plenty of scores,
but needed him to rebound. In the AAU tourney Chavez was named "the Best
Rebounder".
He averaged about 9 points in a starting roll double figure rebounding, and about 5 assists
a game. My point is Chavez was not a one dimensional player like most Big Sky
Conference players are. Asking if he would have 15 points a game is really irrelevant.
Would he dominate a team of Montana players YES.


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Post by mthoops » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:40 pm

OK, I don't work for ESPN and Jack McGillis probably isn't one of the 50 Greatest Atheletes of all time. I am sorry for misleading you, Ballzdeep, and realize now that I have ruined my credibility. I guess you'll just have to watch McGillis for yourself and form your own opinion. Again, I apologize.



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Post by ballzdeep » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:44 pm

mslacat- have you seen jack play and how would you rate him as a player b/c WE ALL know mthoops is full of it. :shock:



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