The Bobcat Nation

Can't believe the state of Idaho athletics. The B-Ball team must suck as much as the football team. Maybe the worst school in 1A in the two major sports combined. A cautionary tale for anyone (UM) thinking that bigger is always better!!

WalkOn79 wrote:Can't believe the state of Idaho athletics. The B-Ball team must suck as much as the football team. Maybe the worst school in 1A in the two major sports combined. A cautionary tale for anyone (UM) thinking that bigger is always better!!

Everytime someone suggests that the Griz (or anyone else for that matter) should move up to I-A, I point to Idaho as an example of what not to do. Being a member of the WAC may help them, as the Sun Belt made absolutely no sense geographically. Hopefully, they can get things back on track in football and basketball.

I'm not sure how I feel about moving up to I-A, but I do get sick of people pointing at Idaho as the reason not to move up.

Idaho is pretty much the worst possible case of a team making the move -- their facilities have always sucked, their attendance has never approached what ours is now, and until now, they have spent their I-A years playing in a conference that probably shouldn't even exist, much less be playing at the I-A level. Is it really so surprising that they haven't had much success?

The naysayers can point at Idaho and say "See! That's why UM shouldn't move up," or the crowd that wants to move up can point at Boise State and Marshall and say "See! That's why UM should move up!" What would actually happen if UM moved up? Who knows; probably something in between.

As for me, I'm on the fence. I would miss the I-AA playoffs, but I am a little curious to see how we would do at the next level. If we joined the right conference (i.e., the WAC or the MWC, although I think the MWC is a pipedream for UM), and if it could be done without bankrupting the school, I'd probably favor it.

Grizlaw wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about moving up to I-A, but I do get sick of people pointing at Idaho as the reason not to move up.

Idaho is pretty much the worst possible case of a team making the move -- their facilities have always sucked, their attendance has never approached what ours is now, and until now, they have spent their I-A years playing in a conference that probably shouldn't even exist, much less be playing at the I-A level. Is it really so surprising that they haven't had much success?

The naysayers can point at Idaho and say "See! That's why UM shouldn't move up," or the crowd that wants to move up can point at Boise State and Marshall and say "See! That's why UM should move up!" What would actually happen if UM moved up? Who knows; probably something in between.

As for me, I'm on the fence. I would miss the I-AA playoffs, but I am a little curious to see how we would do at the next level. If we joined the right conference (i.e., the WAC or the MWC, although I think the MWC is a pipedream for UM), and if it could be done without bankrupting the school, I'd probably favor it.

For the record, FAU / FIU are the posterboys for how not to make the move to I-A. Idaho looks downright well planned compared to the situation those two schools are in.

theblackgecko wrote:

Grizlaw wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about moving up to I-A, but I do get sick of people pointing at Idaho as the reason not to move up.

Idaho is pretty much the worst possible case of a team making the move -- their facilities have always sucked, their attendance has never approached what ours is now, and until now, they have spent their I-A years playing in a conference that probably shouldn't even exist, much less be playing at the I-A level. Is it really so surprising that they haven't had much success?

The naysayers can point at Idaho and say "See! That's why UM shouldn't move up," or the crowd that wants to move up can point at Boise State and Marshall and say "See! That's why UM should move up!" What would actually happen if UM moved up? Who knows; probably something in between.

As for me, I'm on the fence. I would miss the I-AA playoffs, but I am a little curious to see how we would do at the next level. If we joined the right conference (i.e., the WAC or the MWC, although I think the MWC is a pipedream for UM), and if it could be done without bankrupting the school, I'd probably favor it.

For the record, FAU / FIU are the posterboys for how not to make the move to I-A. Idaho looks downright well planned compared to the situation those two schools are in.

Aren't those two schools independents? Thats not the way to go I-A if they both are.

longhorn_22 wrote:Aren't those two schools independents? Thats not the way to go I-A if they both are.

FAU and FIU are in the Sun Belt, actually (which also isn't the way to go).

I dunno...I just think that conference affiliation has had a lot to do with Idaho's lack of success. Look at Idaho vs. Boise State: they recruit in the same region, and when they were both BSC members, they were competitive with one another. If they had been in the same I-A conference all these years, it seems reasonable to think they would still be competitive (or at least that UI would be more competitive than they are now), but because UI has spent most of the past ten years playing in the Big West and Sun Belt conferences, they've lost their recruiting power. That doesn't necessarily mean the same would happen to UM, though, as long as we moved into a conference other than the worst I-A conference in existence...

I'm sorry but any thought of the UM moving to 1-A is a pipe dream. The locale, finances, lack of recruiting area, not being in a sizeable population based area, are all reasons UM should stay put. I ask what is wrong with the 1-AA and the Big Sky? UM competes well, draws good crowds, has good rivalries, and they do not dominate 1-AA but do compete very well. As a Montana native I am proud of their success... as a Bobcat fan I enjoy their rivalry in the Big Sky. Name some other universities in areas similar to the State of Montana and UM's location that are successful 1-A schools. Man... leave that talk alone... let the big money schools have their league.

Everybody has dreams of more money, more 2000 Flushes Toilet Bowl appearences when they jump up to 1-AA. I like the playoff format, plus if you do win the National Championship, you won it out right, not by the votes of some sports writers.

WeedKillinCat wrote:Everybody has dreams of more money, more 2000 Flushes Toilet Bowl appearences when they jump up to 1-AA. I like the playoff format, plus if you do win the National Championship, you won it out right, not by the votes of some sports writers.

The playoffs are fun, definitely. But in the end, a I-AA Championship means about as much as a Holiday Bowl win. BUT, a Holiday Bowl win would be more lucrative I would guess.

CatFamily wrote:I'm sorry but any thought of the UM moving to 1-A is a pipe dream. The locale, finances, lack of recruiting area, not being in a sizeable population based area, are all reasons UM should stay put. I ask what is wrong with the 1-AA and the Big Sky? UM competes well, draws good crowds, has good rivalries, and they do not dominate 1-AA but do compete very well. As a Montana native I am proud of their success... as a Bobcat fan I enjoy their rivalry in the Big Sky. Name some other universities in areas similar to the State of Montana and UM's location that are successful 1-A schools. Man... leave that talk alone... let the big money schools have their league.

VERY

I root for the Cats in all buy one game of the year. Being in Billings, I go to a game or 2 in Bozo. Off comes the Maroon cap, on goes the Blue one.

BUT, when its the Griz/Cat games, I'm all GRIZ!

I believe Montana, with a population approaching 1,000,000 and most of it located from central Montana-west, can support a 1A program. It would seem logical right now, based on results, that program is based in Missoula (ouch). I believe the excitement generated if they joined the WAC would be well supported in the State. I believe in a relatively short time the football program (driver of the financial statement) could compete well with Utah State, San Jose State, Idaho, Nevada...in fact the entire conference including Boise St. and Fresno. Imagine Saturdays in Missoula if Fresno State were coming to town instead of Northern Colorado. Unfortunately the CAT-griz rivalry would most likely return to the days when the griz were the equivalent of 1A and the CATS were NAIA. Between 1902 and 1955 the Cats were 4-36-3 vs. the griz. When the Skyline conference broke up the griz were left without a home and became what Idaho is today. That's when the Bobcats caught up with them; then both programs went on to join the BSC as charter members.
I'm not advocating a griz move...just don't think it can be dismissed out-of-hand. Two programs moving up would be very difficult to support.

CatFamily wrote:I'm sorry but any thought of the UM moving to 1-A is a pipe dream. The locale, finances, lack of recruiting area, not being in a sizeable population based area, are all reasons UM should stay put. I ask what is wrong with the 1-AA and the Big Sky? UM competes well, draws good crowds, has good rivalries, and they do not dominate 1-AA but do compete very well. As a Montana native I am proud of their success... as a Bobcat fan I enjoy their rivalry in the Big Sky. Name some other universities in areas similar to the State of Montana and UM's location that are successful 1-A schools. Man... leave that talk alone... let the big money schools have their league.

Nothing's "wrong with" I-AA and the BSC; I actually love the conference and will be perfectly happy if we stay and never move up. But, I also think competing at the next level could be interesting, too, if we made the move correctly.

I think for me, the point where I started to lean slightly in favor of moving up was during our 2004 playoff run. The thing I started to realize during that year was that I wasn't as excited for the playoff games and the title game as I had been in previous years. Sure, it was still fun, and I still watched all the games (and had a great time as the only Griz fan at JMU's alumni party at a bar on the Upper East Side ), but it definitely wasn't as exciting as it had been the first few times we made deep playoff runs. The fact is, when you make the title game every other year, it does lose its luster after a while...and I'm not saying that to talk smack, like "we're so good, we always go to the dance," I'm just saying this to explain how I feel. The fact is, during our last playoff run, I started thinking that winning a WAC title and playing in a low or mid-level bowl game could be just as exciting, and if we could eventually contend for a higher level bowl game (like BSU has), that would really be exciting.

Anyway, just some random thoughts...like I said, I'm still on the fence, but leaning more and more in favor of moving up (not that the direction I'm leaning has any bearing on anything; I don't exactly control UM's purse strings).

raincat wrote:I believe Montana, with a population approaching 1,000,000 and most of it located from central Montana-west, can support a 1A program. It would seem logical right now, based on results, that program is based in Missoula (ouch). I believe the excitement generated if they joined the WAC would be well supported in the State. I believe in a relatively short time the football program (driver of the financial statement) could compete well with Utah State, San Jose State, Idaho, Nevada...in fact the entire conference including Boise St. and Fresno. Imagine Saturdays in Missoula if Fresno State were coming to town instead of Northern Colorado. Unfortunately the CAT-griz rivalry would most likely return to the days when the griz were the equivalent of 1A and the CATS were NAIA. Between 1902 and 1955 the Cats were 4-36-3 vs. the griz. When the Skyline conference broke up the griz were left without a home and became what Idaho is today. That's when the Bobcats caught up with them; then both programs went on to join the BSC as charter members.
I'm not advocating a griz move...just don't think it can be dismissed out-of-hand. Two programs moving up would be very difficult to support.

As a Griz fan I cant believe the State of Montana would ever let UM move up and MSU stay at 1-AA. I have said befor and still believe that this will all work itself out. Some time in the next 7 years The 1A's will split into a 60 team Super divison and the othe 57 teams will be left out in the cold. Thats when the 1AA will have to change. The Top 1AA will "Jump" to the Second division 1A. I dont know what they will call these divisions, but its how I see it.

Go Scats Go wrote:

raincat wrote:I believe Montana, with a population approaching 1,000,000 and most of it located from central Montana-west, can support a 1A program. It would seem logical right now, based on results, that program is based in Missoula (ouch). I believe the excitement generated if they joined the WAC would be well supported in the State. I believe in a relatively short time the football program (driver of the financial statement) could compete well with Utah State, San Jose State, Idaho, Nevada...in fact the entire conference including Boise St. and Fresno. Imagine Saturdays in Missoula if Fresno State were coming to town instead of Northern Colorado. Unfortunately the CAT-griz rivalry would most likely return to the days when the griz were the equivalent of 1A and the CATS were NAIA. Between 1902 and 1955 the Cats were 4-36-3 vs. the griz. When the Skyline conference broke up the griz were left without a home and became what Idaho is today. That's when the Bobcats caught up with them; then both programs went on to join the BSC as charter members.
I'm not advocating a griz move...just don't think it can be dismissed out-of-hand. Two programs moving up would be very difficult to support.

As a Griz fan I cant believe the State of Montana would ever let UM move up and MSU stay at 1-AA. I have said befor and still believe that this will all work itself out. Some time in the next 7 years The 1A's will split into a 60 team Super divison and the othe 57 teams will be left out in the cold. Thats when the 1AA will have to change. The Top 1AA will "Jump" to the Second division 1A. I dont know what they will call these divisions, but its how I see it.

The State of Montana will never allow UM to move without MSU making the same move (politics and Board of Regents). As to the rest of your prediction, I remember Doug Fullerton (when he was AD) telling us MSU/ASA board members the same scenerio as far as D-I goes, but it was 10-15 years ago.

De ja vu

Go Scats Go wrote:I have said befor and still believe that this will all work itself out. Some time in the next 7 years The 1A's will split into a 60 team Super divison and the othe 57 teams will be left out in the cold. Thats when the 1AA will have to change. The Top 1AA will "Jump" to the Second division 1A. I dont know what they will call these divisions, but its how I see it.

The second division of I-A, hmm maybe they will call it I-AA!

As a Griz fan I cant believe the State of Montana would ever let UM move up and MSU stay at 1-AA. I have said befor and still believe that this will all work itself out. Some time in the next 7 years The 1A's will split into a 60 team Super divison and the othe 57 teams will be left out in the cold. Thats when the 1AA will have to change. The Top 1AA will "Jump" to the Second division 1A. I dont know what they will call these divisions, but its how I see it.

I agree. And what's worse, I see less and less NCAA support and promotion for I-AA. I don't necessarily relish a move to I-A, but for those who are married to the status-quo, I'm afraid there's going to be a day of reckonning. I think the day is coming when the NCAA will blow up I-AA and tell teams make a choice: I-A or D-II.

GOKATS wrote:

Go Scats Go wrote:

raincat wrote:I believe Montana, with a population approaching 1,000,000 and most of it located from central Montana-west, can support a 1A program. It would seem logical right now, based on results, that program is based in Missoula (ouch). I believe the excitement generated if they joined the WAC would be well supported in the State. I believe in a relatively short time the football program (driver of the financial statement) could compete well with Utah State, San Jose State, Idaho, Nevada...in fact the entire conference including Boise St. and Fresno. Imagine Saturdays in Missoula if Fresno State were coming to town instead of Northern Colorado. Unfortunately the CAT-griz rivalry would most likely return to the days when the griz were the equivalent of 1A and the CATS were NAIA. Between 1902 and 1955 the Cats were 4-36-3 vs. the griz. When the Skyline conference broke up the griz were left without a home and became what Idaho is today. That's when the Bobcats caught up with them; then both programs went on to join the BSC as charter members.
I'm not advocating a griz move...just don't think it can be dismissed out-of-hand. Two programs moving up would be very difficult to support.

As a Griz fan I cant believe the State of Montana would ever let UM move up and MSU stay at 1-AA. I have said befor and still believe that this will all work itself out. Some time in the next 7 years The 1A's will split into a 60 team Super divison and the othe 57 teams will be left out in the cold. Thats when the 1AA will have to change. The Top 1AA will "Jump" to the Second division 1A. I dont know what they will call these divisions, but its how I see it.

The State of Montana will never allow UM to move without MSU making the same move (politics and Board of Regents). As to the rest of your prediction, I remember Doug Fullerton (when he was AD) telling us MSU/ASA board members the same scenerio as far as D-I goes, but it was 10-15 years ago.

De ja vu

That is kinda stupid how UM cant move up without The cats on board...