The Bobcat Nation

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:36 am

Congrats to the young lady and her post MSU success at Carroll.

https://406mtsports.com/college/frontie ... ce2b4.html

It still bothers me how she was run off the Bobcat team after her freshman year. As a point guard, she could defend better, dribble circles around and score as well as Halle Wright, also a freshman who Binford inexplicitly inserted in the starting lineup at point guard from the get-go in the 2018-2019 season. Wright also left the team after her freshman season, I believe at her own accord, which was a good thing. The great 2019-2020 team would not have been as good if Wright would have stayed around.

BobcatDel wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:06 pm

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:36 am

Congrats to the young lady and her post MSU success at Carroll.

https://406mtsports.com/college/frontie ... ce2b4.html

It still bothers me how she was run off the Bobcat team after her freshman year. As a point guard, she could defend better, dribble circles around and score as well as Halle Wright, also a freshman who Binford inexplicitly inserted in the starting lineup at point guard from the get-go in the 2018-2019 season. Wright also left the team after her freshman season, I believe at her own accord, which was a good thing. The great 2019-2020 team would not have been as good if Wright would have stayed around.

I liked Kamden as well as you and I am extremely happy to see her be successful at Carol. Outstanding career there. Loved the energy she brought to the court and was bummed to see her leave.

But Coach Bin has had to make a lot of tough love decisions over the years. Kamden did average 10 min per game as a freshmen so about a quarter a game. She shot less than 20% from the field, only 14% from the arc, shot only 55% from the free throw line, 1 rebound per game. At least Wright shot 31% from the field and pulled in 4 rebounds per game (a bit bigger body). So Coach must have seen more upside on Wright at the time….but my own biased eyes thought Kamden could have ultimately grown into a better player. Fun to speculate but quite a useless exercise.

And to say 2019-20 squad would have been worse with Wright is really stretching it….you might be better asking if Kamden would have seen less time on the court with both Squires and young freshman named Darian White…..would Kamden have displaced one of those two folks? Reminder…2019-20 Freije, White, Squires, Kuderer, Smith, Martell, Braxton, Jackson, Bad Bear, Mocchi, Zieske. And I don’t think Wright would have broken into the starting rotation either. And 2020-21 wasn’t exactly a slouch freshman class to compete against. Oh well….gotta believe Coach knows what she is doing and Kamden may have ended up in a better position as a result of the move.

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:13 pm

BobcatDel wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:06 pm

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:36 am

Congrats to the young lady and her post MSU success at Carroll.

https://406mtsports.com/college/frontie ... ce2b4.html

It still bothers me how she was run off the Bobcat team after her freshman year. As a point guard, she could defend better, dribble circles around and score as well as Halle Wright, also a freshman who Binford inexplicitly inserted in the starting lineup at point guard from the get-go in the 2018-2019 season. Wright also left the team after her freshman season, I believe at her own accord, which was a good thing. The great 2019-2020 team would not have been as good if Wright would have stayed around.

I liked Kamden as well as you and I am extremely happy to see her be successful at Carol. Outstanding career there. Loved the energy she brought to the court and was bummed to see her leave.

But Coach Bin has had to make a lot of tough love decisions over the years. Kamden did average 10 min per game as a freshmen so about a quarter a game. She shot less than 20% from the field, only 14% from the arc, shot only 55% from the free throw line, 1 rebound per game. At least Wright shot 31% from the field and pulled in 4 rebounds per game (a bit bigger body). So Coach must have seen more upside on Wright at the time….but my own biased eyes thought Kamden could have ultimately grown into a better player. Fun to speculate but quite a useless exercise.

And to say 2019-20 squad would have been worse with Wright is really stretching it….you might be better asking if Kamden would have seen less time on the court with both Squires and young freshman named Darian White…..would Kamden have displaced one of those two folks? Reminder…2019-20 Freije, White, Squires, Kuderer, Smith, Martell, Braxton, Jackson, Bad Bear, Mocchi, Zieske. And I don’t think Wright would have broken into the starting rotation either. And 2020-21 wasn’t exactly a slouch freshman class to compete against. Oh well….gotta believe Coach knows what she is doing and Kamden may have ended up in a better position as a result of the move.

Yes, Hilborn averaged 10.5 minutes a game. Wright averaged 26.4 minutes, giving her substantial more opportunity to settle in and play through her learning curve. I know it’s blasphemy around here to question or criticize Binford, but what Coach saw in Wright to play her so much obviously escapes me. An analogy would be starting Mia Hughes at point guard on this year’s team (assuming no Darian Wight on the roster). With all that being said, mid way through the 2018-2019 season, Claire Lundberg’s career ended (knee) and Binford moved Wright into her starting slot. From starting point guard to starting power forward??? Dang, with that skill set, the girl should have been playing for Stanford.

Regarding the 2019-2020 season, that was effectively a nine player rotation (Mocchi & Zieske only played garbage minutes, Van Sickle was redshirting, & Skye Lindsey was sitting out on the transfer rule) and was a significant factor to their great success. If Wright would have stayed around, I firmly believe Binford, based on the prior year court time, would have forced Wright into that mix, making it a ten player rotation. IMHO, that would have been a negative to that teams performance.

Back to Hilborn, I freely admit to an in-state player bias, especially very athletic ones which Kamden is. Bottom line, she was hardly given a chance and had her scholarship revoked after one season.

TomCat88 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:11 am

She has some D1 level skills but some parts of her game were just not to the point where she could play consistently well enough to be a BSC player.

Montana basketball has really lagged behind over the past 10-20 years. She’s one of the best to come out of the state. So is Jamie Pickens. Pickens could’ve been a solid BSC player, but transferred to CC. Bad Bear is good. Berry will be good.

Frontier Conference is a great place for Montana kids. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a fun brand of basketball.

BobcatDel wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:04 am

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:13 pm

BobcatDel wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:06 pm

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:36 am

Congrats to the young lady and her post MSU success at Carroll.

https://406mtsports.com/college/frontie ... ce2b4.html

It still bothers me how she was run off the Bobcat team after her freshman year. As a point guard, she could defend better, dribble circles around and score as well as Halle Wright, also a freshman who Binford inexplicitly inserted in the starting lineup at point guard from the get-go in the 2018-2019 season. Wright also left the team after her freshman season, I believe at her own accord, which was a good thing. The great 2019-2020 team would not have been as good if Wright would have stayed around.

I liked Kamden as well as you and I am extremely happy to see her be successful at Carol. Outstanding career there. Loved the energy she brought to the court and was bummed to see her leave.

But Coach Bin has had to make a lot of tough love decisions over the years. Kamden did average 10 min per game as a freshmen so about a quarter a game. She shot less than 20% from the field, only 14% from the arc, shot only 55% from the free throw line, 1 rebound per game. At least Wright shot 31% from the field and pulled in 4 rebounds per game (a bit bigger body). So Coach must have seen more upside on Wright at the time….but my own biased eyes thought Kamden could have ultimately grown into a better player. Fun to speculate but quite a useless exercise.

And to say 2019-20 squad would have been worse with Wright is really stretching it….you might be better asking if Kamden would have seen less time on the court with both Squires and young freshman named Darian White…..would Kamden have displaced one of those two folks? Reminder…2019-20 Freije, White, Squires, Kuderer, Smith, Martell, Braxton, Jackson, Bad Bear, Mocchi, Zieske. And I don’t think Wright would have broken into the starting rotation either. And 2020-21 wasn’t exactly a slouch freshman class to compete against. Oh well….gotta believe Coach knows what she is doing and Kamden may have ended up in a better position as a result of the move.

Yes, Hilborn averaged 10.5 minutes a game. Wright averaged 26.4 minutes, giving her substantial more opportunity to settle in and play through her learning curve. I know it’s blasphemy around here to question or criticize Binford, but what Coach saw in Wright to play her so much obviously escapes me. An analogy would be starting Mia Hughes at point guard on this year’s team (assuming no Darian Wight on the roster). With all that being said, mid way through the 2018-2019 season, Claire Lundberg’s career ended (knee) and Binford moved Wright into her starting slot. From starting point guard to starting power forward??? Dang, with that skill set, the girl should have been playing for Stanford.

Regarding the 2019-2020 season, that was effectively a nine player rotation (Mocchi & Zieske only played garbage minutes, Van Sickle was redshirting, & Skye Lindsey was sitting out on the transfer rule) and was a significant factor to their great success. If Wright would have stayed around, I firmly believe Binford, based on the prior year court time, would have forced Wright into that mix, making it a ten player rotation. IMHO, that would have been a negative to that teams performance.

Back to Hilborn, I freely admit to an in-state player bias, especially very athletic ones which Kamden is. Bottom line, she was hardly given a chance and had her scholarship revoked after one season.

Boy you hate or perhaps just dislike Wright for some reason. But she did outplay Hilborn in that freshman year….which caused Wright to get more court minutes…you weren’t at practices watching how they perform were you? Long term perhaps Kamden had more upside but Wright might have continued to grow too….ya think maybe she could? And injury certainly forced Coach to move Wright inside after Lundberg because she frankly was a big body….who would you have moved inside to give more toughness on inside rather than Wright if it was your team Coach? Has nothing to do with if she had the skill to play at Stanford or wherever…You gotta work with what you have so who would you have played there to try to get a few more boards and fill space after the injury? Would you have given Kamden some time at forward in that case? Guess you can speculate how much role Wright would have played the next year but I suspect Mocchi would have beat her for inside play….Mocchi had an good freshman year shooting 36% inside and 33% from arc with few turnovers in 16 min per game…not much more time on court than Hilborn. Mocchi had elbow surgery the next year and missed a lot of time so perhaps Wright would have earned more time at forward as a result of that. No way Wright would have cracked the guard lineup the next year.

So tell me again how Kamden would have got a lot more playing time in 2019-20 competing against the guard lineup of Squires, White, Martell with Madison Jackson getting some relief minutes. You think Coach might have known what she had in White coming in and she just had to judge based on what she saw that year out of Kamden. Or tell me who you would have sat on the 19-20 team to develop Kamden more. Do you think Kamden would have grown as quickly and excelled at the same level against Big Sky competition? I’ve got a Montana bias too but looking back with what I saw I just can’t be upset with decisions the Coach was making real time and I’m extremely glad what Kamden has done at Carol.

Nobody on this board says you can’t criticize Coach Bin……have at it! It’s not blasphemy. But probably shouldn’t expect the criticism to be blessed and anointed and being fawned over just because you feel that way……without some counterpoint discussions.

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:52 pm

BobcatDel wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:04 am

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:13 pm

BobcatDel wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 03, 2023 6:06 pm

arvcat2 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:36 am

Congrats to the young lady and her post MSU success at Carroll.

https://406mtsports.com/college/frontie ... ce2b4.html

It still bothers me how she was run off the Bobcat team after her freshman year. As a point guard, she could defend better, dribble circles around and score as well as Halle Wright, also a freshman who Binford inexplicitly inserted in the starting lineup at point guard from the get-go in the 2018-2019 season. Wright also left the team after her freshman season, I believe at her own accord, which was a good thing. The great 2019-2020 team would not have been as good if Wright would have stayed around.

I liked Kamden as well as you and I am extremely happy to see her be successful at Carol. Outstanding career there. Loved the energy she brought to the court and was bummed to see her leave.

But Coach Bin has had to make a lot of tough love decisions over the years. Kamden did average 10 min per game as a freshmen so about a quarter a game. She shot less than 20% from the field, only 14% from the arc, shot only 55% from the free throw line, 1 rebound per game. At least Wright shot 31% from the field and pulled in 4 rebounds per game (a bit bigger body). So Coach must have seen more upside on Wright at the time….but my own biased eyes thought Kamden could have ultimately grown into a better player. Fun to speculate but quite a useless exercise.

And to say 2019-20 squad would have been worse with Wright is really stretching it….you might be better asking if Kamden would have seen less time on the court with both Squires and young freshman named Darian White…..would Kamden have displaced one of those two folks? Reminder…2019-20 Freije, White, Squires, Kuderer, Smith, Martell, Braxton, Jackson, Bad Bear, Mocchi, Zieske. And I don’t think Wright would have broken into the starting rotation either. And 2020-21 wasn’t exactly a slouch freshman class to compete against. Oh well….gotta believe Coach knows what she is doing and Kamden may have ended up in a better position as a result of the move.

Yes, Hilborn averaged 10.5 minutes a game. Wright averaged 26.4 minutes, giving her substantial more opportunity to settle in and play through her learning curve. I know it’s blasphemy around here to question or criticize Binford, but what Coach saw in Wright to play her so much obviously escapes me. An analogy would be starting Mia Hughes at point guard on this year’s team (assuming no Darian Wight on the roster). With all that being said, mid way through the 2018-2019 season, Claire Lundberg’s career ended (knee) and Binford moved Wright into her starting slot. From starting point guard to starting power forward??? Dang, with that skill set, the girl should have been playing for Stanford.

Regarding the 2019-2020 season, that was effectively a nine player rotation (Mocchi & Zieske only played garbage minutes, Van Sickle was redshirting, & Skye Lindsey was sitting out on the transfer rule) and was a significant factor to their great success. If Wright would have stayed around, I firmly believe Binford, based on the prior year court time, would have forced Wright into that mix, making it a ten player rotation. IMHO, that would have been a negative to that teams performance.

Back to Hilborn, I freely admit to an in-state player bias, especially very athletic ones which Kamden is. Bottom line, she was hardly given a chance and had her scholarship revoked after one season.

Boy you hate or perhaps just dislike Wright for some reason. But she did outplay Hilborn in that freshman year….which caused Wright to get more court minutes…you weren’t at practices watching how they perform were you? Long term perhaps Kamden had more upside but Wright might have continued to grow too….ya think maybe she could? And injury certainly forced Coach to move Wright inside after Lundberg because she frankly was a big body….who would you have moved inside to give more toughness on inside rather than Wright if it was your team Coach? Has nothing to do with if she had the skill to play at Stanford or wherever…You gotta work with what you have so who would you have played there to try to get a few more boards and fill space after the injury? Would you have given Kamden some time at forward in that case? Guess you can speculate how much role Wright would have played the next year but I suspect Mocchi would have beat her for inside play….Mocchi had an good freshman year shooting 36% inside and 33% from arc with few turnovers in 16 min per game…not much more time on court than Hilborn. Mocchi had elbow surgery the next year and missed a lot of time so perhaps Wright would have earned more time at forward as a result of that. No way Wright would have cracked the guard lineup the next year.

So tell me again how Kamden would have got a lot more playing time in 2019-20 competing against the guard lineup of Squires, White, Martell with Madison Jackson getting some relief minutes. You think Coach might have known what she had in White coming in and she just had to judge based on what she saw that year out of Kamden. Or tell me who you would have sat on the 19-20 team to develop Kamden more. Do you think Kamden would have grown as quickly and excelled at the same level against Big Sky competition? I’ve got a Montana bias too but looking back with what I saw I just can’t be upset with decisions the Coach was making real time and I’m extremely glad what Kamden has done at Carol.

Nobody on this board says you can’t criticize Coach Bin……have at it! It’s not blasphemy. But probably shouldn’t expect the criticism to be blessed and anointed and being fawned over just because you feel that way……without some counterpoint discussions.

I’ll step aside and stop rehashing the past, debating with, and arguing the what ifs with the guy that had great difficulty understanding what eligibility year Ashley Van Sickle was in and why. Good day.

TomCat88 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:11 am

She has some D1 level skills but some parts of her game were just not to the point where she could play consistently well enough to be a BSC player.

Montana basketball has really lagged behind over the past 10-20 years. She’s one of the best to come out of the state. So is Jamie Pickens. Pickens could’ve been a solid BSC player, but transferred to CC. Bad Bear is good. Berry will be good.

Frontier Conference is a great place for Montana kids. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a fun brand of basketball.

John K wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:23 am

TomCat88 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:11 am

She has some D1 level skills but some parts of her game were just not to the point where she could play consistently well enough to be a BSC player.

Montana basketball has really lagged behind over the past 10-20 years. She’s one of the best to come out of the state. So is Jamie Pickens. Pickens could’ve been a solid BSC player, but transferred to CC. Bad Bear is good. Berry will be good.

Frontier Conference is a great place for Montana kids. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a fun brand of basketball.

In my opinion, at least part of the reason for that, is the changing of the seasons for GBB and VB. Especially at smaller schools, that has led to more of a scarcity of resources for both BBB and GBB, particularly with regard to coaching, since the same person often coached both teams at smaller schools, when the seasons were split. That change happened 20 years ago, which as you pointed out, is when the decline in quality began. I'm not saying that's the only factor, but I believe it has contributed to it. Way back when this change was initially proposed, I predicted that a decline in the quality of GBB in Montana would be an unintended consequence. BBB has probably been impacted to some degree as well, but GBB to a much greater extent.

Cataholic wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:57 am

John K wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:23 am

TomCat88 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:11 am

She has some D1 level skills but some parts of her game were just not to the point where she could play consistently well enough to be a BSC player.

Montana basketball has really lagged behind over the past 10-20 years. She’s one of the best to come out of the state. So is Jamie Pickens. Pickens could’ve been a solid BSC player, but transferred to CC. Bad Bear is good. Berry will be good.

Frontier Conference is a great place for Montana kids. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a fun brand of basketball.

In my opinion, at least part of the reason for that, is the changing of the seasons for GBB and VB. Especially at smaller schools, that has led to more of a scarcity of resources for both BBB and GBB, particularly with regard to coaching, since the same person often coached both teams at smaller schools, when the seasons were split. That change happened 20 years ago, which as you pointed out, is when the decline in quality began. I'm not saying that's the only factor, but I believe it has contributed to it. Way back when this change was initially proposed, I predicted that a decline in the quality of GBB in Montana would be an unintended consequence. BBB has probably been impacted to some degree as well, but GBB to a much greater extent.

That is a good point. However, at the same time, I don’t think Montana produced one boys G5 or P5 player last year. The girls had at least one in Berry. I would be interested to see a history of D1 basketball products from the state over the past 20 years. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more girls than boys. Is there a D1 prospect this year?

John K wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:20 pm

Cataholic wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:57 am

John K wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:23 am

TomCat88 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:11 am

She has some D1 level skills but some parts of her game were just not to the point where she could play consistently well enough to be a BSC player.

Montana basketball has really lagged behind over the past 10-20 years. She’s one of the best to come out of the state. So is Jamie Pickens. Pickens could’ve been a solid BSC player, but transferred to CC. Bad Bear is good. Berry will be good.

Frontier Conference is a great place for Montana kids. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a fun brand of basketball.

In my opinion, at least part of the reason for that, is the changing of the seasons for GBB and VB. Especially at smaller schools, that has led to more of a scarcity of resources for both BBB and GBB, particularly with regard to coaching, since the same person often coached both teams at smaller schools, when the seasons were split. That change happened 20 years ago, which as you pointed out, is when the decline in quality began. I'm not saying that's the only factor, but I believe it has contributed to it. Way back when this change was initially proposed, I predicted that a decline in the quality of GBB in Montana would be an unintended consequence. BBB has probably been impacted to some degree as well, but GBB to a much greater extent.

That is a good point. However, at the same time, I don’t think Montana produced one boys G5 or P5 player last year. The girls had at least one in Berry. I would be interested to see a history of D1 basketball products from the state over the past 20 years. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more girls than boys. Is there a D1 prospect this year?

Oh, I'm sure there's been way more girls than boys, but I'm also sure there's still been fewer girls than there were "back in the day". I remember a time when UM's WBB roster didn't have a single out of state player, and they were by far the dominant program in the BSC at that time. MSU's roster was stocked with probably 50% in-state players back then, if not more. The Frontier schools' WBB programs were made up of predominantly Montana girls too.

Cataholic wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:44 pm

John K wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:20 pm

Cataholic wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:57 am

John K wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:23 am

TomCat88 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 04, 2023 2:11 am

She has some D1 level skills but some parts of her game were just not to the point where she could play consistently well enough to be a BSC player.

Montana basketball has really lagged behind over the past 10-20 years. She’s one of the best to come out of the state. So is Jamie Pickens. Pickens could’ve been a solid BSC player, but transferred to CC. Bad Bear is good. Berry will be good.

Frontier Conference is a great place for Montana kids. Nothing wrong with that. It’s a fun brand of basketball.

In my opinion, at least part of the reason for that, is the changing of the seasons for GBB and VB. Especially at smaller schools, that has led to more of a scarcity of resources for both BBB and GBB, particularly with regard to coaching, since the same person often coached both teams at smaller schools, when the seasons were split. That change happened 20 years ago, which as you pointed out, is when the decline in quality began. I'm not saying that's the only factor, but I believe it has contributed to it. Way back when this change was initially proposed, I predicted that a decline in the quality of GBB in Montana would be an unintended consequence. BBB has probably been impacted to some degree as well, but GBB to a much greater extent.

That is a good point. However, at the same time, I don’t think Montana produced one boys G5 or P5 player last year. The girls had at least one in Berry. I would be interested to see a history of D1 basketball products from the state over the past 20 years. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more girls than boys. Is there a D1 prospect this year?

Oh, I'm sure there's been way more girls than boys, but I'm also sure there's still been fewer girls than there were "back in the day". I remember a time when UM's WBB roster didn't have a single out of state player, and they were by far the dominant program in the BSC at that time. MSU's roster was stocked with probably 50% in-state players back then, if not more. The Frontier schools' WBB programs were made up of predominantly Montana girls too.

It is a great point, but I think the athletes in women’s basketball have dramatically improved on a national scale compared to 20 years ago. AAU ball has girls playing year round in other parts of the country. Montana is behind.

Bobcat4Ever wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:59 pm

Doesn’t the possibility for a girl to play both volleyball and basketball somewhat offset the split, especially at the A and AA or even the B level? Kola was a terrific volleyball player, and since there are a lot of complementary skills, it seems it would be beneficial.

John K wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:04 am

Bobcat4Ever wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:59 pm

Doesn’t the possibility for a girl to play both volleyball and basketball somewhat offset the split, especially at the A and AA or even the B level? Kola was a terrific volleyball player, and since there are a lot of complementary skills, it seems it would be beneficial.

I guess I'm a bit confused by this comment. Girls have always been able to play both sports. The GBB and VB seasons never ran concurrently. Up until 2002, GBB was in the fall, and VB was in the winter.