Grizzlies Gauge Quarterbacks in First Scrimmage

[DaCats21]

MISSOULA — Fans excited to catch a glimpse of Washington-Grizzly Stadium's fancy new turf and prized senior captain quarterback had to settle for just one check mark on the list at Monday's scrimmage.

http://helenair.com/sports/college/big- ... f9d81.html

[iaafan]

Sounds like the defense dominated the scrum. I'm not sure why they'd only be taking a good look at Chalich and Phillips when Gustafson is coming off a lackluster season. Gustafson was only in for two drives, both 3 and outs? I'd think he'd be getting a lot more time in than that. He only averaged about 6.0 yards per pass in their first two spring scrimmages. 66 yards on 22 attempts in the second scrimmage. It sounds like there's a drop off in the WR talent, as expected considering last year's crew. I don't see how they're going to be any better on offense considering they didn't bring in anyone to shore up their OL. Same QB, same RBs, not as good WRs.

It's hard to say how good their defense is when the offense has mediocre talent to go up against.

[catatac]

Gustafson.

I think they're going to be pretty good, but inconsistent again. In fact I think inconsistency is the name of the game with Stitt's offense because he places Sooo much pressure on the QB and when he has a bad game, and they always do, they lose.

[Grizaddict]

Sounds like the defense dominated the scrum. I'm not sure why they'd only be taking a good look at Chalich and Phillips when Gunderson is coming off a lackluster season. Gunderson was only in for two drives, both 3 and outs? I'd think he'd be getting a lot more time in than that. He only averaged about 6.0 yards per pass in their first two spring scrimmages. 66 yards on 22 attempts in the second scrimmage. It sounds like there's a drop off in the WR talent, as expected considering last year's crew. I don't see how they're going to be any better on offense considering they didn't bring in anyone to shore up their OL. Same QB, same RBs, not as good WRs.

It's hard to say how good their defense is when the offense has mediocre talent to go up against.

There is no doubt that replacing a Jamal Jones, Ellis Henderson, and Ben Roberts is a tall task. 2 of them landed in NFL camps and if Ellis wasn't battling depression issues and played another year there is no doubt in my mind he would land in one as well.

I will, however, give you a few names to remember so that we can revisit this thread in the future and realize that the Griz aren't missing those 3 as much as we thought:

James Homan - transfer from JUCO Blinn College - may actually be best WR Griz have.
Keenan Curran - think Ellis 2.0
Josh Horner - tore it up last year once he became the H back receiver
Justin Calhoun - twin brother of Jerrmy the RB who played a bunch last year as a true freshman and scored 9 TDs. Rumor is his bro may be even better and had over 100 yards receiving in scrimmage and a TD
Jerry Louie McGee - he will introduce himself to the Big Sky this year. Coaches said you can't tackle him in a hallway. Had a huge spring and looking awesome in fall
Lane Hovey - grad transfer from Nebraska where he played a lot. Think Ben Roberts 2.0
Lamariel Taylor - drop down transfer from UMass. Big and fast
Kobey Eaton - had a huge spring and was leading receiver in spring scrims

I think we will all be very impressed with the receiving corps. I'm much more worried about the OL than anything else. If there's any weakness IMO that is it.

[91catAlum]

Sounds like the defense dominated the scrum. I'm not sure why they'd only be taking a good look at Chalich and Phillips when Gustafson is coming off a lackluster season. Gustafson was only in for two drives, both 3 and outs? I'd think he'd be getting a lot more time in than that. He only averaged about 6.0 yards per pass in their first two spring scrimmages. 66 yards on 22 attempts in the second scrimmage. It sounds like there's a drop off in the WR talent, as expected considering last year's crew. I don't see how they're going to be any better on offense considering they didn't bring in anyone to shore up their OL. Same QB, same RBs, not as good WRs.

It's hard to say how good their defense is when the offense has mediocre talent to go up against.

I liked it better with Gunderson... I thought you did that on purpose, like when the grizidiots refer to our last 2 coaches as Ron Ash and Jeff Choke.

[PapaG]

Sounds like the defense dominated the scrum. I'm not sure why they'd only be taking a good look at Chalich and Phillips when Gunderson is coming off a lackluster season. Gunderson was only in for two drives, both 3 and outs? I'd think he'd be getting a lot more time in than that. He only averaged about 6.0 yards per pass in their first two spring scrimmages. 66 yards on 22 attempts in the second scrimmage. It sounds like there's a drop off in the WR talent, as expected considering last year's crew. I don't see how they're going to be any better on offense considering they didn't bring in anyone to shore up their OL. Same QB, same RBs, not as good WRs.

It's hard to say how good their defense is when the offense has mediocre talent to go up against.

There is no doubt that replacing a Jamal Jones, Ellis Henderson, and Ben Roberts is a tall task. 2 of them landed in NFL camps and if Ellis wasn't battling depression issues and played another year there is no doubt in my mind he would land in one as well.

I will, however, give you a few names to remember so that we can revisit this thread in the future and realize that the Griz aren't missing those 3 as much as we thought:

James Homan - transfer from JUCO Blinn College - may actually be best WR Griz have.
Keenan Curran - think Ellis 2.0
Josh Horner - tore it up last year once he became the H back receiver
Justin Calhoun - twin brother of Jerrmy the RB who played a bunch last year as a true freshman and scored 9 TDs. Rumor is his bro may be even better and had over 100 yards receiving in scrimmage and a TD
Jerry Louie McGee - he will introduce himself to the Big Sky this year. Coaches said you can't tackle him in a hallway. Had a huge spring and looking awesome in fall
Lane Hovey - grad transfer from Nebraska where he played a lot. Think Ben Roberts 2.0
Lamariel Taylor - drop down transfer from UMass. Big and fast
Kobey Eaton - had a huge spring and was leading receiver in spring scrims

I think we will all be very impressed with the receiving corps. I'm much more worried about the OL than anything else. If there's any weakness IMO that is it.

So you list the top 8 WRs, and when a few of them have a decent year we'll "revisit this thread" regardless of if the offense struggles or excels. But reading your scouting report, Ellis and Roberts are easily replaced (2.0!!!), and James Homan is better than both Ellis 2.0 and Roberts 2.0. I expect record-setting numbers if that's the case, so let's "revisit" that, because outside of your sunshine pumping, the word from Missoula is that WR is a big area of concern, which is why Stitt has roughly 127 of them on the roster right now.

[Grizaddict]

Sounds like the defense dominated the scrum. I'm not sure why they'd only be taking a good look at Chalich and Phillips when Gunderson is coming off a lackluster season. Gunderson was only in for two drives, both 3 and outs? I'd think he'd be getting a lot more time in than that. He only averaged about 6.0 yards per pass in their first two spring scrimmages. 66 yards on 22 attempts in the second scrimmage. It sounds like there's a drop off in the WR talent, as expected considering last year's crew. I don't see how they're going to be any better on offense considering they didn't bring in anyone to shore up their OL. Same QB, same RBs, not as good WRs.

It's hard to say how good their defense is when the offense has mediocre talent to go up against.

There is no doubt that replacing a Jamal Jones, Ellis Henderson, and Ben Roberts is a tall task. 2 of them landed in NFL camps and if Ellis wasn't battling depression issues and played another year there is no doubt in my mind he would land in one as well.

I will, however, give you a few names to remember so that we can revisit this thread in the future and realize that the Griz aren't missing those 3 as much as we thought:

James Homan - transfer from JUCO Blinn College - may actually be best WR Griz have.
Keenan Curran - think Ellis 2.0
Josh Horner - tore it up last year once he became the H back receiver
Justin Calhoun - twin brother of Jerrmy the RB who played a bunch last year as a true freshman and scored 9 TDs. Rumor is his bro may be even better and had over 100 yards receiving in scrimmage and a TD
Jerry Louie McGee - he will introduce himself to the Big Sky this year. Coaches said you can't tackle him in a hallway. Had a huge spring and looking awesome in fall
Lane Hovey - grad transfer from Nebraska where he played a lot. Think Ben Roberts 2.0
Lamariel Taylor - drop down transfer from UMass. Big and fast
Kobey Eaton - had a huge spring and was leading receiver in spring scrims

I think we will all be very impressed with the receiving corps. I'm much more worried about the OL than anything else. If there's any weakness IMO that is it.

So you list the top 8 WRs, and when a few of them have a decent year we'll "revisit this thread" regardless of if the offense struggles or excels. But reading your scouting report, Ellis and Roberts are easily replaced (2.0!!!), and James Homan is better than both Ellis 2.0 and Roberts 2.0. I expect record-setting numbers if that's the case, so let's "revisit" that, because outside of your sunshine pumping, the word from Missoula is that WR is a big area of concern, which is why Stitt has roughly 127 of them on the roster right now.

Oh so happy to see the resident know it all. Surprised you aren't going off about weight lifting and weight gains. Isn't that what all of BNadr fun of you for recently.

You were probably one of the ones who said the Griz LB corps would be dismal when we graduated Tripp, Coyle, and Kanagata and replaced them with Van Ackern, Gamboa, and Kose. Both groups were dominant and production never decreased in spite of those first 3 being NFL players and CFL. Sometimes teams can reload Papa as opposed to rebuild. Bookmark this thread and we can revisit it when you see how solid the WR corps are. You just can never remove your anti Griz feelers enough to ever be objective. Look at the thread I posted a while back about how the Bobcats will be different but still pretty good this year. I gave a very fair assessment and was even told so by your fellow BN fans.

[Rich K]

Sounds like the defense dominated the scrum. I'm not sure why they'd only be taking a good look at Chalich and Phillips when Gunderson is coming off a lackluster season. Gunderson was only in for two drives, both 3 and outs? I'd think he'd be getting a lot more time in than that. He only averaged about 6.0 yards per pass in their first two spring scrimmages. 66 yards on 22 attempts in the second scrimmage. It sounds like there's a drop off in the WR talent, as expected considering last year's crew. I don't see how they're going to be any better on offense considering they didn't bring in anyone to shore up their OL. Same QB, same RBs, not as good WRs.

It's hard to say how good their defense is when the offense has mediocre talent to go up against.

There is no doubt that replacing a Jamal Jones, Ellis Henderson, and Ben Roberts is a tall task. 2 of them landed in NFL camps and if Ellis wasn't battling depression issues and played another year there is no doubt in my mind he would land in one as well.

I will, however, give you a few names to remember so that we can revisit this thread in the future and realize that the Griz aren't missing those 3 as much as we thought:

James Homan - transfer from JUCO Blinn College - may actually be best WR Griz have.
Keenan Curran - think Ellis 2.0
Josh Horner - tore it up last year once he became the H back receiver
Justin Calhoun - twin brother of Jerrmy the RB who played a bunch last year as a true freshman and scored 9 TDs. Rumor is his bro may be even better and had over 100 yards receiving in scrimmage and a TD
Jerry Louie McGee - he will introduce himself to the Big Sky this year. Coaches said you can't tackle him in a hallway. Had a huge spring and looking awesome in fall
Lane Hovey - grad transfer from Nebraska where he played a lot. Think Ben Roberts 2.0
Lamariel Taylor - drop down transfer from UMass. Big and fast
Kobey Eaton - had a huge spring and was leading receiver in spring scrims

I think we will all be very impressed with the receiving corps. I'm much more worried about the OL than anything else. If there's any weakness IMO that is it.

So you list the top 8 WRs, and when a few of them have a decent year we'll "revisit this thread" regardless of if the offense struggles or excels. But reading your scouting report, Ellis and Roberts are easily replaced (2.0!!!), and James Homan is better than both Ellis 2.0 and Roberts 2.0. I expect record-setting numbers if that's the case, so let's "revisit" that, because outside of your sunshine pumping, the word from Missoula is that WR is a big area of concern, which is why Stitt has roughly 127 of them on the roster right now.

Oh so happy to see the resident know it all. Surprised you aren't going off about weight lifting and weight gains. Isn't that what all of BNadr fun of you for recently.

You were probably one of the ones who said the Griz LB corps would be dismal when we graduated Tripp, Coyle, and Kanagata and replaced them with Van Ackern, Gamboa, and Kose. Both groups were dominant and production never decreased in spite of those first 3 being NFL players and CFL. Sometimes teams can reload Papa as opposed to rebuild. Bookmark this thread and we can revisit it when you see how solid the WR corps are. You just can never remove your anti Griz feelers enough to ever be objective. Look at the thread I posted a while back about how the Bobcats will be different but still pretty good this year. I gave a very fair assessment and was even told so by your fellow BN fans.

Did my fellow BN fans PM you and did they provide you with adequate validation? Hate to think you didn't get enough validation over here. That would be sad.

[BozoneCat]

Just have to give a shout-out to PapaG, he's flat out owning these pathetic griz threads lately! We don't always see eye to eye on everything, but I love his complete domination on this thread in addition to the "I wish I had those 10 minutes of my life back" thread on the latest grizzly arrest. Keep up the good work, Papa!


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[TomCat88]

The Grizzlies will probably have 2-3 WRs in the top 10 for receptions and yardage, but I'm not sure what it will say about their skill set. Only ISU threw more passes per game than UM. EWU was just a fraction behind UM. All three teams had three players in the top ten of yardage and receptions per game. UM had Jones and Roberts in receptions, and Jones and Henderson in yardage. Point being, if you throw the ball a lot you're gonna have big numbers unless you're very inept.

[iaafan]

I agree that the OL might be the biggest concern for UM. What we learned last year from UM is that you can have a trio of WRs put up big numbers, but still not have an efficient passing game or an effective offense. Football is a game of offensive trends and defensive adjustments. Stitt, like many coaches, has been using this offense for quite a while and we're seeing is defenses figuring it out and offenses trending back to ground and pound attacks. It could be that the UM OL was/is fine, but good defenses are learning how to attack this kind of offense.

[Grizaddict]

I agree that the OL might be the biggest concern for UM. What we learned last year from UM is that you can have a trio of WRs put up big numbers, but still not have an efficient passing game or an effective offense. Football is a game of offensive trends and defensive adjustments. Stitt, like many coaches, has been using this offense for quite a while and we're seeing is defenses figuring it out and offenses trending back to ground and pound attacks. It could be that the UM OL was/is fine, but good defenses are learning how to attack this kind of offense.

You raise valid points and perhaps some of that is true. You did mention that the offense wasn't very effective . I agree it was not incredible by any means last season, but the Griz did finish 28th in total offense in all of FCS just one spot behind the national champion Bison. I'm not sure I would consider that ineffective at this point. I think of it as a work in progress as it was just year one of a brand-new offensive install. I'm curious to see what it will do this year. It should be better but who knows?

The other point you made was that you didn't think the offense would be any better since it was returning the same quarterback and same running backs and the same offenseive line. Maybe in this offense, that is actually a very good thing? I know Coach Stitt looks at that as a positive since they will all come back with a year of it under their belt, making it even more effective. Again, hard to say but will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I know we are all ready for some football!

[iaafan]

Using national rankings and total offense/defense numbers can be misleading. Stats in general can be misleading. Depending on your style of play and the style of play in your conference it will have a lot to say about where you end up ranked nationally. The style of offense a team plays is often the by-product of the defense that team plays. Offenses and defenses effect each other. Coaching styles vary. UM is a good case study to show that.

The Griz pass a lot, so as expected they have a lot of passing yards (4th in the BSC last year), but that doesn't mean they were effective as is shown by their pass efficiency rating which was 11th in the BSC. UM averaged just 3.6 per carry and finished 9th in the BSC. They're total offense was sixth, but that number is enhanced by the pass-heavy style. UM had a stretch were it didn't break 27 points in six out of seven games. By far the most impressive outing was against NDSU in the opener, but it was followed by the stretch described previously. They put together two games with big numbers late in the year, but the opponents (EWU and MSU) were among the worst teams in the league defensively. After that game they averaged just 15 ppg in the final two games. The team they hung 38 on held them to 6. That looks like an adjustment was made. It may not be a coincidence that UM struggled offensively after its first game and future teams had film. Eight of 13 games UM was held to 27 points or less. For a team that is supposed to have a high-octane offense those numbers are not effective and all five of the losses were in those eight games and of the five losses three came against teams that scored 24 or less. MSU only had one game below 27 points, EWU had just two, NAU 3 (one was Arizona), PSU 4 (one was WSU), UM ... 8!

This is why I'm struggling to see the optimism that's going around.

[Grizaddict]

Using national rankings and total offense/defense numbers can be misleading. Stats in general can be misleading. Depending on your style of play and the style of play in your conference it will have a lot to say about where you end up ranked nationally. The style of offense a team plays is often the by-product of the defense that team plays. Offenses and defenses effect each other. Coaching styles vary. UM is a good case study to show that.

The Griz pass a lot, so as expected they have a lot of passing yards (4th in the BSC last year), but that doesn't mean they were effective as is shown by their pass efficiency rating which was 11th in the BSC. UM averaged just 3.6 per carry and finished 9th in the BSC. They're total offense was sixth, but that number is enhanced by the pass-heavy style. UM had a stretch were it didn't break 27 points in six out of seven games. By far the most impressive outing was against NDSU in the opener, but it was followed by the stretch described previously. They put together two games with big numbers late in the year, but the opponents (EWU and MSU) were among the worst teams in the league defensively. After that game they averaged just 15 ppg in the final two games. The team they hung 38 on held them to 6. That looks like an adjustment was made. It may not be a coincidence that UM struggled offensively after its first game and future teams had film. Eight of 13 games UM was held to 27 points or less. For a team that is supposed to have a high-octane offense those numbers are not effective and all five of the losses were in those eight games and of the five losses three came against teams that scored 24 or less. MSU only had one game below 27 points, EWU had just two, NAU 3 (one was Arizona), PSU 4 (one was WSU), UM ... 8!

This is why I'm struggling to see the optimism that's going around.

Can't argue with anything you said here. Your points are all legit and validated by the statistics behind them. The only case I can make is that Gustafson was very key to that offense, and he missed 7 of the 13 games. His absence didn't help the offensive production in any way. In fact when he returned, he helped them get their highest point totals with 56 and 42. I think there's reason for optimism with a healthy Gustafson at the helm. But I think they still have a long ways to go. The OL is supposed to be much improved but I'll believe that when I see it. Trust me, I haven't seen that yet. But our defensive front is much improved over last year so that plays a role too.

[PapaG]

Surprised you aren't going off about weight lifting and weight gains. Isn't that what all of BNadr fun of you for recently.

Um, no, that would be GTapp, and he lists his name and phone number if you want to call him and personally mock him. I'm sure Gary would love to meet up and have you say it to his face.



Not a good week here for you at all, grizaddict.

[PapaG]

But our defensive front is much improved over last year so that plays a role too.

That's a bold claim considering Tyrone Holmes was a 6th-round NFL draft pick and a few other contributors graduated.

[iaafan]

I agree that UM plays better with Gustafson in the game, but it's also worth noting that Gustafson's rating (122.5) wasn't even in the top 9 (there were six BSC QBs with ratings of 144 or better) in the BSC and if you take out the MSU and EWU games it drops to 111.9. The 42 point game was against UND and Simis was the QB in that game. Gustafson came back after the ISU game and UM scored 57 on EWU and 54 on MSU. Those aren't great defenses and 17 of the points against EWU came off a fumble return, INT return and then a INT return to the EWU 2 that led to a chip shot FG after a -2 yard drive. Gustafson played well and had a 154.1 rating in the games vs. EWU/MSU, but other QBs that played both of those teams had even better days. Naturally, most QBs have good days against weak competition, but the truly good QBs do that against the strong teams. His best game was against NDSU in the first game of the year, but then he laid an egg in Fargo to make that performance look like an aberration.

[catatac]

But our defensive front is much improved over last year so that plays a role too.

That's a bold claim considering Tyrone Holmes was a 6th-round NFL draft pick and a few other contributors graduated.

Oh the Grizzly hype machine is alive and well. Kidder is the best D lineman in the history of the program. Gonna break all the records and be better than Holmes, Waggenman, Bierman, Picher... combined!

[GRIZ1STCATS2ND]

Scheshhhhhh!!!!! These last couple weeks can't go by fast enough. As with any season all fans are cautiously optimistic. It happens. I'm most confident in our defense again. Concerns about several aspects of our offense, from Gus' accuracy issues to our O line again. I don't know what to expect out of you guys but I don't see you killin it on either side of the ball this year at least but good things are happening.

[TomCat88]

Scheshhhhhh!!!!! These last couple weeks can't go by fast enough. As with any season all fans are cautiously optimistic. It happens. I'm most confident in our defense again. Concerns about several aspects of our offense, from Gus' accuracy issues to our O line again. I don't know what to expect out of you guys but I don't see you killin it on either side of the ball this year at least but good things are happening.

I'm anxious for it to start, too. The league chase is going to be great with so many even teams. It could be that nine teams are still in the hunt with a couple weeks to go or someone could catch lightning in a bottle.

As for MSU I agree good things seem to be happening. Choate reminds me of Joe McCarthy in that he has been able to get his players to eat, drink and sleep football, in this case, and I'm a firm believer in that method. He seems to be a throwback in philosophy with his finger on the pulse on the modern game.