What will it take for the Big Sky to Compete in the Dance

Catfanatic84 · Post by **Catfanatic84** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:22 am

What do you think? Men's and Women's tournaments? The Big Sky is turning into a perennial 1 and done conference. I don't understand how the WCC can continue to be as good in basketball as they are...yet the Big Sky seems to lag behind. What's the difference? Gonzaga's success under Few has no doubt helped the whole conference get better. Is that what we need? Would a basketball contract with Root sports help? (more exposure). Will the Reno tournament help over time? We've got a new commissioner coming in....hope he/she has some ideas to elevate the competition.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:44 pm

I think most everybody in the Big Sky pours most of their resources into football. Basketball has been an after-thought.
No television contract sure doesn't help. Too many teams playing basketball in football stadiums? Other teams playing in cracker boxes? I think the new tournament format will help, but it will take some time to bear fruit. A couple more Damion Lillards couldn't hurt either.

Montanabob · Post by **Montanabob** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:44 am

Really?
Not a chance.

allcat · Post by **allcat** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:41 am

They have to care about the regular season. Fish has gone out and played some name teams, but do the rest do that. If the best you can come up with is the 13th seed, you will always play the high seeds. Realistically you might win one of these games every few years, but not very often.

Hawks86 · Post by **Hawks86** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:59 am

Offering FCOA might help.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:15 pm

Hawks86 wrote:Offering FCOA might help.

Yep, and money in all sorts of other areas (facilities, recruiting, marketing, etc.) would definitely help. As was mentioned earlier, if we devoted the resources to basketball that we currently do to football, the BSC would be a legit basketball conference. But at the end of the day the BSC schools just aren't wealthy schools and basketball just doesn't get much of those limited budgets.

Catfanatic84 · Post by **Catfanatic84** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:47 pm

SonomaCat wrote:
Hawks86 wrote:Offering FCOA might help.
Yep, and money in all sorts of other areas (facilities, recruiting, marketing, etc.) would definitely help. As was mentioned earlier, if we devoted the resources to basketball that we currently do to football, the BSC would be a legit basketball conference. But at the end of the day the BSC schools just aren't wealthy schools and basketball just doesn't get much of those limited budgets.

Do WCC schools offer FCOA and devote more $$ to basketball than Big Sky schools? (I'm not trying to be a smarta$$...just trying to understand what is the difference).

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:53 pm

Catfanatic84 wrote:
SonomaCat wrote:
Hawks86 wrote:Offering FCOA might help.
Yep, and money in all sorts of other areas (facilities, recruiting, marketing, etc.) would definitely help. As was mentioned earlier, if we devoted the resources to basketball that we currently do to football, the BSC would be a legit basketball conference. But at the end of the day the BSC schools just aren't wealthy schools and basketball just doesn't get much of those limited budgets.
Do WCC schools offer FCOA and devote more $$ to basketball than Big Sky schools? (I'm not trying to be a smarta$$...just trying to understand what is the difference).

All but one of the WCC schools don't have football teams, and that team is BYU. So it's a good bet that yes, they do commit more funds to their BB programs than do BSC schools.

technoCat · Post by **technoCat** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:07 am

So I know their is a whole thread about their epic collapse yesterday but how can schools like UNI seem to build contenders? They are at the same level of football as us and are consistently good to great there. How can they afford to pay their BB coach half a million dollars a year??!!

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:12 am

technoCat wrote:So I know their is a whole thread about their epic collapse yesterday but how can schools like UNI seem to build contenders? They are at the same level of football as us and are consistently good to great there. How can they afford to pay their BB coach half a million dollars a year??!!

Don't forget that SDSU was a 12 seed this year as well.

Big Sky is not a strong conference, and unless someone completely dominates the conference, we are a 14-16 seed league. When is the last time we had better than a 14? I feel like the Griz had a 13 or 12 not that long ago (I know they were a 12 in 2006).

We just don't get the athletes here. We get good basketball players, but when you see other teams in the tournament, they are either fast, long, broad, or all of the above. We just don't get the kids here.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:39 pm

Facilities & money. That's what it is going to take. Our facilities are sub-par compared to other mid-major programs, and MSU needs to have BETTER than average facilities to draw kids to come up and play ball in Montana, which might as well be the North Pole to a lot of them. Then, we need to commit more money to pay coaches and spend on recruiting. That's what it would take to be more competitive. I fully realize none of that is happening any time soon.

blueandgoldblitz · Post by **blueandgoldblitz** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:28 pm

BozoneCat wrote:Facilities & money. That's what it is going to take. Our facilities are sub-par compared to other mid-major programs, and MSU needs to have BETTER than average facilities to draw kids to come up and play ball in Montana, which might as well be the North Pole to a lot of them. Then, we need to commit more money to pay coaches and spend on recruiting. That's what it would take to be more competitive. I fully realize none of that is happening any time soon.

Blake Braun tweeted a couple of days ago that Utah's sports facilities made MSU's look like a high school. So there's that. We just don't have the money for those facilities so the bigger schools with that money will most likely continue to dominate us unless we can catch up in a hurry.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:59 pm

blueandgoldblitz wrote:
BozoneCat wrote:Facilities & money. That's what it is going to take. Our facilities are sub-par compared to other mid-major programs, and MSU needs to have BETTER than average facilities to draw kids to come up and play ball in Montana, which might as well be the North Pole to a lot of them. Then, we need to commit more money to pay coaches and spend on recruiting. That's what it would take to be more competitive. I fully realize none of that is happening any time soon.
Blake Braun tweeted a couple of days ago that Utah's sports facilities made MSU's look like a high school. So there's that. We just don't have the money for those facilities so the bigger schools with that money will most likely continue to dominate us unless we can catch up in a hurry.

Well, Utah is flush with Pac 12 cash, so that's not really what we're up against. And trust me, their facilities are amazing - I live about a mile from the U of U campus!

Look at the WCC and Mountain West schools, in addition to Weber and Montana - that's our direct competition, and we're lagging behind all of them. Pretty seriously.

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John K · Post by **John K** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:31 am

BozoneCat wrote:
blueandgoldblitz wrote:
BozoneCat wrote:Facilities & money. That's what it is going to take. Our facilities are sub-par compared to other mid-major programs, and MSU needs to have BETTER than average facilities to draw kids to come up and play ball in Montana, which might as well be the North Pole to a lot of them. Then, we need to commit more money to pay coaches and spend on recruiting. That's what it would take to be more competitive. I fully realize none of that is happening any time soon.
Blake Braun tweeted a couple of days ago that Utah's sports facilities made MSU's look like a high school. So there's that. We just don't have the money for those facilities so the bigger schools with that money will most likely continue to dominate us unless we can catch up in a hurry.
Well, Utah is flush with Pac 12 cash, so that's not really what we're up against. And trust me, their facilities are amazing - I live about a mile from the U of U campus!

Look at the WCC and Mountain West schools, in addition to Weber and Montana - that's our direct competition, and we're lagging behind all of them. Pretty seriously.

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Yeah, I'm not asking for, or expecting programs in the BSC to be competitive with schools like Utah, or even Gonzaga, but we've fallen far behind most of the other low major conferences and teams. Why can't our best teams compete at the level of a Northern Iowa for example, which has several NCAA tourney wins over the last several seasons and made the Sweet 16 just a couple of years ago? Even Weber and UM are nowhere close to that level, and we're nowhere close to Weber and UM's level. I can't believe that schools like UNI really have significantly more resources available to them, as compared to MSU. UNI is just one example, but there's been a bunch of teams from many different mid to low major conferences that routinely pick up 1st round wins, and even get to the Sweet 16 on a fairly regular basis. No BSC team has made the Sweet 16 since 1982 (34 years), with only 3 tourney wins during that period of time. When you look back at the success the BSC achieved in the late 70's and early 80's, it's pretty shocking how far it's fallen.

Hawks86 · Post by **Hawks86** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:16 am

UNI's overall athletic budget is similar to ours. Their student fees and institutional support is pretty close to ours. The difference I see in basketball is attendance,salaries,booster support, and they give FCOA. They also gave their head basketball coach a ten year extension that averages $900,000.

Jacobson will receive an average salary of $900,000 per year through the length of the deal.

“Panther athletics owes a debt of gratitude to our donors who stepped forward over the past two weeks to provide resources allowing us to raise Ben's financial package to a level consistent with the national marketplace,” said Dannen. “General education funds have not been used to supplement the head coach’s salary since 2008. Our external support has allowed Panther athletics, and in particular the men's basketball program, the opportunity to achieve at an unprecedented academic and competitive level.”

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men ... r-contract

The underlined part is key for us to get to a higher level.

3-7-77 · Post by **3-7-77** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:51 am

If you just watch about five minutes of the tournament and compare it to Big Sky level play, then you will see the problem. Lack of talent in players and coaching. Like trying to compete at the Daytona 500 in a Yugo.

Bobcat4Ever · Post by **Bobcat4Ever** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:00 am

Wow, as John K said, the Big Sky men have fallen -- RPI is 27th out of 32, lowest of the Western conferences, one spot behind the WAC.

Since UNI has been mentioned several times, and I have lots of family in Iowa, I took a look at their men's basketball roster just out of curiosity. Several things may be indicators of success for their program, for this year and beyond. They have reasonable class balance (3 SR, 1 JR, 5 SO, 4 FR), no JC transfers, and 4 players 6-9 and taller. They have 8 players from Iowa, which is amazing as they are the #3 school, with a state population of just over 3 million (3 times that of Montana). Their Missouri Valley Conference is ranked 14th. They won their conference tournament and went 1-1 in the NCAA tournament.

John K · Post by **John K** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:41 am

Bobcat4Ever wrote:Wow, as John K said, the Big Sky men have fallen -- RPI is 27th out of 32, lowest of the Western conferences, one spot behind the WAC.

Since UNI has been mentioned several times, and I have lots of family in Iowa, I took a look at their men's basketball roster just out of curiosity. Several things may be indicators of success for their program, for this year and beyond. They have reasonable class balance (3 SR, 1 JR, 5 SO, 4 FR), no JC transfers, and 4 players 6-9 and taller. They have 8 players from Iowa, which is amazing as they are the #3 school, with a state population of just over 3 million (3 times that of Montana). Their Missouri Valley Conference is ranked 14th. They won their conference tournament and went 1-1 in the NCAA tournament.

That is very surprising, since as you say, UNI is generally going to be only the 3rd option for most of the in-state kids. Even taking their much larger population into consideration, that's still a big disparity compared to the Montana schools, neither of which has more than maybe 1 or 2 Montana kids on the roster. I would really like to see MSU try to wean themselves off JC transfers as much as possible. It seems like we've been much more dependent on them lately, than we were back in the days when the program was more successful. I know you'll probably always need to bring in 1 or 2 every year, but it seems like Huse became overly dependent on them. Of course, his hand was forced to some degree, because so many players defected from his teams every year.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:54 am

I believe Fish has the correct mindset. Schedule virtually all of the non-conference games away from MSU in order for the kids to get used to playing the game the way the rest of the country calls a game from the officiating aspect, hope they don't forget how to play the game during the conference schedule and somehow make it through the conference tournament playing the game like the rest of the country does. Our conference play is little more than free throw shooting contests and our conference doesn't stand a chance in a physical game.

St George · Post by **St George** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:22 pm

I will take any game and any team from the Big Sky where there is a performance like the one from Kral Ferch where he jammed it down the throat of the big stud from St Johns.