The Bobcat Nation

Our Griz friends in another thread got me thinking about the teams that have defined 1-AA/FCS football since the classification was created in 1978.

What are the Top 4 programs?

Mine are as follows

Youngstown State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State

Those are givens for me.

For the 4th spot, do you go with Montana, who last won a title in 2001, or NDSU, who while an FCS newcomer, has given FCS football more exposure than any other program outside of Appy State beating Michigan.

Tough call for me. Montana, based on being very good for two decades, or NDSU, who have dominated FCS football, and have given more national exposure to FCS (and won more titles) than Montana even in their short time in this division.

Uh... Gotta consider Marshall.

catatac wrote:Uh... Gotta consider Marshall.

I thought about it, but they only won two titles, and left for FBS 17 years ago. Montana's overall resume is better comparatively.

Without a doubt you go with NDSU. They are what, 5-0 against FBS in the last 5 years? NDSU and App State are the 2 programs that brought the most "outside" interest to the FCS.

PapaG wrote:

catatac wrote:Uh... Gotta consider Marshall.

I thought about it, but they only won two titles, and left for FBS 17 years ago. Montana's overall resume is better comparatively.

And for that reason precisely, that criteria will not be used for this analysis. Love it! Did you mean to say that out loud?

I would put Montana before Youngstown State. They have two more titles than Montana, but they all came under Tressel. Have they really done much since he left? By comparison, Montana over a nearly fifteen year period and four coaching changes continued to play for championships.

Read - 1 (1-0)
Dennehy - 1 (0-1)
Glenn - 2 (1-1)
Hauck - 3 (0-3)

As a program, I'd give Montana the edge over YSU. That's a lot more consistency over a longer period of time. I'd almost say the same thing with regard to App. St. but it's hard to know how they would've done in the FCS post-Moore.

catatac wrote:Uh... Gotta consider Marshall.

I agree. Just based on that 1996 team alone. The 96 grizz team they beat was very good.

IMO NDSU has to be on there. I would go with these:

App St.
UM
GSU
NDSU

tampa_griz wrote:I would put Montana before Youngstown State. They have two more titles than Montana, but they all came under Tressel. Have they really done much since he left? By comparison, Montana over a nearly fifteen year period and four coaching changes continued to play for championships.

Read - 1 (1-0)
Dennehy - 1 (0-1)
Glenn - 2 (1-1)
Hauck - 3 (0-3)

As a program, I'd give Montana the edge over YSU. That's a lot more consistency over a longer period of time. I'd almost say the same thing with regard to App. St. but it's hard to know how they would've done in the FCS post-Moore.

That's a good point, but both YSU and Montana were placed on NCAA probation at some point during their FCS years, and YSU is second all-time in FCS titles, so they get the nod IMO.

PapaG wrote:

tampa_griz wrote:I would put Montana before Youngstown State. They have two more titles than Montana, but they all came under Tressel. Have they really done much since he left? By comparison, Montana over a nearly fifteen year period and four coaching changes continued to play for championships.

Read - 1 (1-0)
Dennehy - 1 (0-1)
Glenn - 2 (1-1)
Hauck - 3 (0-3)

As a program, I'd give Montana the edge over YSU. That's a lot more consistency over a longer period of time. I'd almost say the same thing with regard to App. St. but it's hard to know how they would've done in the FCS post-Moore.

That's a good point, but both YSU and Montana were placed on NCAA probation at some point during their FCS years, and YSU is second all-time in FCS titles, so they get the nod IMO.

Well if number of titles is the deciding factor above all else then it's real easy. GSU, YSU, App. St., and NDSU.

I still think Montana's long-term success trumps YSU's short-lived success.

tampa_griz wrote:
I still think Montana's long-term success trumps YSU's short-lived success.

A fair point. When I think of teams the defined eras of FCS football, though, Montana's never really been that program. A bit like the Atlanta Braves. Very good, but rarely great. YSU went to 6 title games in 9 years and won 4 of them. That's impressive. Montana's 7 appearances are spread out over 15 years, with two titles. Dynasties tend to get the nod in my book, and YSU had a legitimate dynasty, while Montana hasn't reached that level nationally.

PapaG wrote:

tampa_griz wrote:
I still think Montana's long-term success trumps YSU's short-lived success.

A fair point. When I think of teams the defined eras of FCS football, though, Montana's never really been that program. A bit like the Atlanta Braves. Very good, but rarely great. YSU went to 6 title games in 9 years and won 4 of them. That's impressive. Montana's 7 appearances are spread out over 15 years, with two titles. Dynasties tend to get the nod in my book, and YSU had a legitimate dynasty, while Montana hasn't reached that level nationally.

And I'm a Griz fan. And you're a Cat fan. There's that too.

tampa_griz wrote:

PapaG wrote:

tampa_griz wrote:
I still think Montana's long-term success trumps YSU's short-lived success.

A fair point. When I think of teams the defined eras of FCS football, though, Montana's never really been that program. A bit like the Atlanta Braves. Very good, but rarely great. YSU went to 6 title games in 9 years and won 4 of them. That's impressive. Montana's 7 appearances are spread out over 15 years, with two titles. Dynasties tend to get the nod in my book, and YSU had a legitimate dynasty, while Montana hasn't reached that level nationally.

"Dynasty" is a subjective term. There was a column at Sports Network (by Matt Dougherty?....I'll try to find it) called "The Last Dynasty". It was a nod to Montana's "dynasty".

And I'm a Griz fan. And you're a Cat fan. There's that too.

EDIT: You can't get to the link anymore at Sports Network, but here's a copy Matt Dougherty's column on eGriz. It was written in 2006, before the 2008 and 2009 NC appearances, and makes a comparison to YSU at that time. So there's an impartial judge for us.

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopi ... 40&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tampa_griz wrote:

PapaG wrote:

tampa_griz wrote:
I still think Montana's long-term success trumps YSU's short-lived success.

A fair point. When I think of teams the defined eras of FCS football, though, Montana's never really been that program. A bit like the Atlanta Braves. Very good, but rarely great. YSU went to 6 title games in 9 years and won 4 of them. That's impressive. Montana's 7 appearances are spread out over 15 years, with two titles. Dynasties tend to get the nod in my book, and YSU had a legitimate dynasty, while Montana hasn't reached that level nationally.

And I'm a Griz fan. And you're a Cat fan. There's that too.

I'd love for MSU to be in the conversation, believe me!

Based on the current PC trend of "all-inclusive" as demonstrated by nearly 50% of FBS teams qualifying for Bowl games, the number of trophies in my 13 year old nieces bedroom who never played on a winning team, etc., my four are:

Appy State
Georgia Southern
NDSU
Prairie View

PapaG wrote:

tampa_griz wrote:

PapaG wrote:

tampa_griz wrote:
I still think Montana's long-term success trumps YSU's short-lived success.

A fair point. When I think of teams the defined eras of FCS football, though, Montana's never really been that program. A bit like the Atlanta Braves. Very good, but rarely great. YSU went to 6 title games in 9 years and won 4 of them. That's impressive. Montana's 7 appearances are spread out over 15 years, with two titles. Dynasties tend to get the nod in my book, and YSU had a legitimate dynasty, while Montana hasn't reached that level nationally.

And I'm a Griz fan. And you're a Cat fan. There's that too.

I'd love for MSU to be in the conversation, believe me!

Here's a compromise that might work. If YSU gets the nod over Montana (and this might apply to App. State as well), instead of the YSU logo on Rushmore, how about a bust of Tressel?

LTown Cat wrote:IMO NDSU has to be on there. I would go with these:

App St.
UM
GSU
NDSU

i'd go this route myself

GSU
YSU
APP and NDSU

No way in hell does Missoula compare to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Kidd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GSU
YSU
UM
App

Hard time leaving Marhsall off there.

NDSU will be on there but it just feels too soon to put a modern dynasty on the Mount Rushmore of FCS.