Big Sky Conference-growth issues

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:55 am

Moderators, feel free to move this thread as you see fit. I posted it here because I thought our NDSU friends might be interested and they might miss it if I posted somewhere else:

http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/2005109220090

The above link from the Greeley Tribune says Greeley, Colorado (Home of future Big Sky member Northern Colorado) is the fastest growning metro area in the US, and St. George, Utah (near Cedar City-home of Southern Utah University) is 2nd.

What if anything will this mean to UNC-and possibly SUU in regards to their fan support and benefit to the Big Sky Conference. It could just mean that even more people won't care about UNC athletics and that's it.

I am in support of the Big Sky taking in Northern Colorado, but I am very much against their decision not to take in NDSU and SDSU. Even this message board has demonstrated that the Dakota schools will generate way more fan interest in our league than even most of the existing members outside of the Montana schools.

Anyway-discuss if you want to.

Post by **kmax** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:11 am

BelgradeBobcat wrote:It could just mean that even more people won't care about UNC athletics and that's it.

While I hope I am wrong, I am going to have to go with this theory. The problem for UNC is going to be the same as seen for PSU, Sac St., etc. They are commuter colleges that are small fish in a big pond. While there are many people in the area, there are much bigger more established programs right close by that those people would rather follow. Growth in Greely probably isn't going to do much, because growth means outsiders moving in...outsiders who likely have never heard of UNC and could care less.

This is why it would be so nice to have NDSU and SDSU in the Sky. Then UM and MSU would not be the only schools that have the undivided attention of their states.

PS-I am going to move this to the College Sports board to help keep things on topic in the Bobcat Sports board and also so it doesn't get buried with all the football threads as I think this is an interesting discussion. Most of our NDSU and SDSU posters check in on that board as well.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:14 am

An interesting thread has developed on egriz about this & Kodiak came up with a SUPER view of the future Big Sky Conference.

Big Sky Conference: Rocky Mountain Division

Montana State
Montana
Idaho State
Northern Colorado
South Dakota State
North Dakota State
Weber State

Big Sky Conference: Pacific Division

Eastern Washington
Portland State
Sacramento State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah

I realize this is a rather grand view of the future (one that Doug Fullerton couldn't POSSIBLY comprehend), but that would be one amazing conference.

The selection committee would have to set aside 1 autobid & 4 or 5 at large berths for the Big Sky...

Post by **kmax** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:23 am

A 14 team conference

Wow!

Poly and UCD will never join the Sky unless we let them in as Football only associate members, they have too much going for them in the Big West.

I still think after next year we should kick Suc St. out(the only thing we would lose is a good Volleyball program) and invite NDSU and SDSU for a 10 team conference.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:33 am

El_Gato wrote:An interesting thread has developed on egriz about this & Kodiak came up with a SUPER view of the future Big Sky Conference.

Big Sky Conference: Rocky Mountain Division

Montana State
Montana
Idaho State
Northern Colorado
South Dakota State
North Dakota State
Weber State

Big Sky Conference: Pacific Division

Eastern Washington
Portland State
Sacramento State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah

I realize this is a rather grand view of the future (one that Doug Fullerton couldn't POSSIBLY comprehend), but that would be one amazing conference.

The selection committee would have to set aside 1 autobid & 4 or 5 at large berths for the Big Sky...

This would be fantastic, too bad Doug Fullofit would never promote or accept a conference like this. Maybe one day he will surprise us though.

How rediculous hard would it be to win in the Rocky Mountain Division. What a tough conference, no matter what sport you are talking about. Football you have MSU, UM, NDSU and SDSU every year. Basketball you have MSU, UM, SDSU and Weber every year. UNC and ISU would be the preverbial whipping boys.

EWU and an every other year split with PSU and NAU would dominate the Pacific.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:41 am

Maybe instead of a super conference like was posted by El Gato, we have a conference like this....

Montana State
Montana
Eastern Washington
Weber State
Idaho State
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
North Dakota State
South Dakota State

put Suck State and PisSU to the curb

In the future, open things up for a 10th school like Southern Utah or even better, University of North Dakota. Maybe even ask Idaho if they'd like to come back. If Idaho came back to the Big Sky, at least they'd have a chance to finish middle of the pack in conference race instead of dead last as they do now.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:50 pm

I think maybe Fullerton got a bad rap for the exclusion of NDSU and SDSU.

The Big Sky presidents were somewhat on pins and needles with Sac State and Portland State. If those schools got mad and joined up with the Big West (and Great West for football) the Big Sky would lose their auto bid to the NCAA men's basketball tournament because you need 7 tourney eligible teams to qualify for an auto bid in basketball.

The decision to add UNC was because all 8 presidents could agree on them. NDSU and SDSU had majorities, but not unanimous.

Things may change when NDSU and SDSU become fully playoff and NCAA tourney eligible.

Post by **kmax** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:53 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:I think maybe Fullerton got a bad rap for the exclusion of NDSU and SDSU.

The Big Sky presidents were somewhat on pins and needles with Sac State and Portland State. If those schools got mad and joined up with the Big West (and Great West for football) the Big Sky would lose their auto bid to the NCAA men's basketball tournament because you need 7 tourney eligible teams to qualify for an auto bid in basketball.

The decision to add UNC was because all 8 presidents could agree on them. NDSU and SDSU had majorities, but not unanimous.

Things may change when NDSU and SDSU become fully playoff and NCAA tourney eligible.

Agreed and I have posted the same thing previously. That is why I say after next year we kick Suc St. to the curb and invite NDSU and SDSU, then if PSU doesn't like it they can take a hike too.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:41 pm

kmax wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:I think maybe Fullerton got a bad rap for the exclusion of NDSU and SDSU.

The Big Sky presidents were somewhat on pins and needles with Sac State and Portland State. If those schools got mad and joined up with the Big West (and Great West for football) the Big Sky would lose their auto bid to the NCAA men's basketball tournament because you need 7 tourney eligible teams to qualify for an auto bid in basketball.

The decision to add UNC was because all 8 presidents could agree on them. NDSU and SDSU had majorities, but not unanimous.

Things may change when NDSU and SDSU become fully playoff and NCAA tourney eligible.
Agreed and I have posted the same thing previously. That is why I say after next year we kick Suc St. to the curb and invite NDSU and SDSU, then if PSU doesn't like it they can take a hike too.

I didnt realize that was the case. If so, then good for Doug and his foresite into the future.

In this case, I think the Big Sky is really improving itself in all sports.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:11 pm

I really think that with the addition of UNC we have weakened the Big Sky. I just don’t see UNC becoming competitive in any sports. Only time will tell, but I have the feeling that we have just added another Sac State type of school. The Big Sky Conference missed a great opportunity to add the Dakota schools.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:16 pm

In Defense of Sac they do kick everybodies ass in volleyball.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:39 pm

jagur1 wrote:In Defense of Sac they do kick everybodies ass in volleyball.

Their mens B-Ball team has progressed well since Jerome Jenkins took the helm - they have proven they can hang tough with the rest of the conference. All other sports though - ouch (except one Fball game last year that I want to forget...

)

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:28 pm

Is there anything to be said for facilities and fan support? If so, then PSU and SSU should not be allowed in the Frontier Conference.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:03 pm

It's not 20 or 30-somethings moving to St. George, it's retirees for the most part.

I don't know about Greeley's growth. I understand why the Big Sky added UNC, but I don't understand how they were favored over NDSU.

I don't like the idea of having to play a conference championship game. That's just one more game you have to play before playoffs. It would be better to play an out-of-conference game rather than a conference championship.

I have never figured out why Portland State is in the Big Sky...ever.
Sac is in because it gives Montana schools MAJOR exposure in a multimillion person recruiting center. So, just get it out of your head about kicking Sac out. That is preposterous. CSUS is spending several million in facility improvements - they'll head to I-A within a few years.

I can't think of a good reason not to have NDSU and SDSU in the Big Sky.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:51 pm

mquast53000 wrote:I really think that with the addition of UNC we have weakened the Big Sky. I just don’t see UNC becoming competitive in any sports. Only time will tell, but I have the feeling that we have just added another Sac State type of school. The Big Sky Conference missed a great opportunity to add the Dakota schools.

I think UNC will be similar to Eastern Washington. Very competitive, especially in football, but with pretty ambivalent fan support. Given the area they're in, with the number of Colorado athletes they can recruit they should always be tough-similar to what EWU does with almost exclusively Washington athletes.

Basketball may take a while for them-as it did with EWU.

89rabbit · Post by **89rabbit** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 5:00 pm

A new development in the never ending saga of "where will SDSU and NDSU end up". The Mid-Con has a new Commissioner and he know us very well.

http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... 30303/1002

SUU athletic director resigns

By STEVE KIGGINS
skiggins@thespectrum.com

CEDAR CITY - Tom Douple, who helped launch the Great West Football Conference, established a women's soccer program and raised the bar of expectations at Southern Utah University during his five-year stint as athletic director, resigned Thursday to become commissioner of the Mid-Continent Conference. . . .

He will begin duties as commissioner of one of the NCAA's 31 Division I conferences on Oct. 10. . . .

Douple, 52, will replace Ron Bertovich, who resigned July 8, as commissioner of the Mid-Con. He accepted the job on Wednesday and broke the news to his staff and the Thunderbirds' coaches on Thursday morning.

"It's been a very rough day," Douple said wearily. . . .

Douple's greatest achievement was the creation of a six-team football conference that rescued the Thunderbirds from the Division I-AA independent ranks. SUU had operated without a conference for eight years before Douple rounded up South Dakota State University, North Dakota State University, the University of Northern Colorado and two California schools, Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo and the University of California-Davis, to form the GWFC.

The conference has thrived in its brief history. The GWFC was ranked second nationally out of 16 conferences last season in the Gridiron Power Index, and three teams began the 2005 campaign ranked in The Sports Network's Top 25.

The GWFC garnered two especially impressive victories last weekend, when UC-Davis stunned Division I-A Stanford, 20-17, and North Dakota State romped past Weber State, 41-0. This week, the Great West is No. 1 in the GPI ratings.

"He basically put together the Great West Football Conference. We went from an independent playing who knows who to being in one of the toughest I-AA leagues in the nation," Gardner said. "He won't take credit for it, but he put that league together."

The creation of the GWFC also has eased SUU's scheduling by assuring the school five games per season. In previous years, SUU was forced to find 11 or 12 games, oftentimes leaving the Thunderbirds at the mercy of another school.

Being a member of the GWFC has been a boon to SUU's recruiting efforts, too.

"One of the first things players and parents ask us is, 'What conference are you in?,' and now we have the opportunity to tell them how good our conference is," Meier said. "It also gives our players something to play for. They know they have a championship to play for, a ring to play for." . . .

Commissioner Douple knows us, he has worked with us, and he is from the western half of the Mid-Con.

NDSUbison · Post by **NDSUbison** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:48 pm

It looks like the BSC wil take another look at expansion next week and will discuss the posibility of having a twelve team league with two divisions. Here is the article from the Fargo Forum.

"The Big Sky Conference Presidents Council will discuss expansion at its annual meeting next week. The extent of the conversation, however, is still to be determined.

“It may last 30 seconds,” Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton said Wednesday.

Fullerton said he wants to make sure the league looks at the future and considers all options. That could include a 12-team, two-division conference setup.

Fullerton said that would probably be the only way North Dakota State could gain entry into the league. NDSU applied for membership in the fall of 2004, but was denied when only Northern Colorado was chosen for a further look.

The Presidents Council cited distance as a major factor against NDSU.

“Everything about North Dakota State is exactly what the Big Sky Conference needs,” Fullerton said. “Having 12 teams is the only way to overcome the distance problem.”

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index. ... ion=Sports

WYOBISONMAN · Post by **WYOBISONMAN** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:13 am

I think NDSU in the Sky is the most benificial for both the Big Sky and NDSU. However, after being shunned multiple times I am not sure that NDSU will put an application in on this one....

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:33 am

I hope the pseudo administrators take a better look because I for one am getting tired of watching our teams and coaches continually have to take trips west and/or south. Hell, I'm about the same distance from Fargo as I am from Bozo and there's more than a few farmers and ranchers in this part of the state who also have farm and ranch land in the Dakotas and Wyoming

It'll only help us recruit the Midwest cornfed linemen like MQuast

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:23 am

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.ph ... bigsky.inc

Expansion on Big Sky agenda again
The Fargo Forum
The Big Sky Conference Presidents Council will discuss expansion at its annual meeting next week. The extent of the conversation, however, is still to be determined.
"It may last 30 seconds," Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton said Wednesday.
Fullerton said he wants to make sure the league looks at the future and considers all options. That could include a 12-team, two-division conference setup.

Fullerton said that would probably be the only way North Dakota State could gain entry into the league. NDSU applied for membership in the fall of 2004, but was denied when only Northern Colorado was chosen for a further look.
The Presidents Council cited distance as a major factor against NDSU.
"Everything about North Dakota State is exactly what the Big Sky Conference needs," Fullerton said. "Having 12 teams is the only way to overcome the distance problem."
Northern Colorado was eventually granted acceptance last spring starting with the 2006-07 season. NDSU, a Division I independent, is still searching for a league. Montana State defeated NDSU in football last weekend in Bozeman.
The problem with a two division setup is in football because, Fullerton said, everybody wants to play the University of Montana. The Grizzlies are the biggest home draw for the other seven Big Sky teams.
But 12 teams would be an advantage in basketball, Fullerton said. Scheduling is expected to be a hassle when the league goes to nine teams next year.
"Nine is an awkward number," Fullerton said.
If the league went to 12 teams, Fullerton said he would organize a full 22-game schedule for all teams.
"Twenty-two Division I games is a great base to work from," he said.
Fullerton cautioned that the Council's agenda for the meeting is full. But he said Montana State President Geoffrey Gamble wants to keep the discussion going to see if there is further interest.
"I know there has been some talk of expansion out of Bozeman," Fullerton said.

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