The Bobcat Nation

Bay Area Cat wrote:http://www.kotatv.com/Global/story.asp? ... enu411_2_5

Yep, he wasn't here long- the handwriting must've been on the wall.......

He was here longer than John Lebrum. Does that make him more of a "former" player than Lebrum and therefore more of a bad reflection on MSU? How is he any different than any other ex-MSU player that has found himself in trouble.

crazycat wrote:He was here longer than John Lebrum. Does that make him more of a "former" player than Lebrum and therefore more of a bad reflection on MSU? How is he any different than any other ex-MSU player that has found himself in trouble.

Well, I guess when you spin it that way (a way I hadn't thought of until you mentioned it), we did recruit him and bring him to Bozeman. We just got lucky that he decided to leave.

Fine ... mark it up as another mistake by Kramer in terms of recruiting guys that apparently had violence issues.

DeAngelo Wall?

DW?

Wasn't that the monicker of the "ringleader" the cops mentioned several times following the arrests earlier this year?

El_Gato wrote:DeAngelo Wall?

DW?

Wasn't that the monicker of the "ringleader" the cops mentioned several times following the arrests earlier this year?

DW or Demetrius so I'm going to assume not the same guy.

Bay Area Cat wrote:

crazycat wrote:He was here longer than John Lebrum. Does that make him more of a "former" player than Lebrum and therefore more of a bad reflection on MSU? How is he any different than any other ex-MSU player that has found himself in trouble.

Well, I guess when you spin it that way (a way I hadn't thought of until you mentioned it), we did recruit him and bring him to Bozeman. We just got lucky that he decided to leave.

Fine ... mark it up as another mistake by Kramer in terms of recruiting guys that apparently had violence issues.

Make up your mind BAC. Did WE recruit him or did Kramer recruit him?

You could also spin it to say that it was a good thing we/Kramer/Durham got rid of Lebrum and Miller.

Might explain why the cops felt so comfortable throwing the initials DW out there. They knew he was already in custody. I have always wondered if they know/knew who DW was why they didn't arrest him but yet seemed to tip information that would let this guy know they knew who he was. Doesn't make sense to use the name as much as they did when you're still gathering evidence for a arrest.

crazycat wrote:

Bay Area Cat wrote:

crazycat wrote:He was here longer than John Lebrum. Does that make him more of a "former" player than Lebrum and therefore more of a bad reflection on MSU? How is he any different than any other ex-MSU player that has found himself in trouble.

Well, I guess when you spin it that way (a way I hadn't thought of until you mentioned it), we did recruit him and bring him to Bozeman. We just got lucky that he decided to leave.

Fine ... mark it up as another mistake by Kramer in terms of recruiting guys that apparently had violence issues.

Make up your mind BAC. Did WE recruit him or did Kramer recruit him?

You could also spin it to say that it was a good thing we/Kramer/Durham got rid of Lebrum and Miller.

Fine. Kramer recruited him. I was being too generous in my community-minded wording.

I think it IS a good thing that we got rid of those players ... but that doesn't erase the fact that we recruited them and brought them here in the first place. So it's all true.

kcatz wrote:Might explain why the cops felt so comfortable throwing the initials DW out there. They knew he was already in custody. I have always wondered if they know/knew who DW was why they didn't arrest him but yet seemed to tip information that would let this guy know they knew who he was. Doesn't make sense to use the name as much as they did when you're still gathering evidence for a arrest.

I have no clue, but I don't think Wall is the DW they were referring to- another poster stated a while back that the other DW (Demetrius) hasn't been seen in the Bozeman area since last Dec. when Fuller & Sullivan were arrested. FWIW

kcatz wrote:Might explain why the cops felt so comfortable throwing the initials DW out there. They knew he was already in custody. I have always wondered if they know/knew who DW was why they didn't arrest him but yet seemed to tip information that would let this guy know they knew who he was. Doesn't make sense to use the name as much as they did when you're still gathering evidence for a arrest.

it's not the same guy.

Bay Area Cat wrote:

crazycat wrote:

Bay Area Cat wrote:

crazycat wrote:He was here longer than John Lebrum. Does that make him more of a "former" player than Lebrum and therefore more of a bad reflection on MSU? How is he any different than any other ex-MSU player that has found himself in trouble.

Well, I guess when you spin it that way (a way I hadn't thought of until you mentioned it), we did recruit him and bring him to Bozeman. We just got lucky that he decided to leave.

Fine ... mark it up as another mistake by Kramer in terms of recruiting guys that apparently had violence issues.

Make up your mind BAC. Did WE recruit him or did Kramer recruit him?

You could also spin it to say that it was a good thing we/Kramer/Durham got rid of Lebrum and Miller.

Fine. Kramer recruited him. I was being too generous in my community-minded wording.

I think it IS a good thing that we got rid of those players ... but that doesn't erase the fact that we recruited them and brought them here in the first place. So it's all true.

Just messin' with ya.

Wasn't there a Demetrius Williams that played receiver for the Cats in 2003? I seem to remember that he may have even started a game or two, including the playoff game against Northern Iowa, due to injuries in our receiving corps late that season. Does anyone else remember him?

Also, the news about DeAngelo Wall reinforces what I have been saying all along....that if the "infamous 6" athletes had all left Bozeman and moved to the east coast upon leaving the football/basketball programs, and then started their "drug cartel" in New York or Miami, this whole thing would have been a total non-story. Most Montanans would not have even known about it, and even fewer would have cared. It was just our (and Kramer's) bad luck that they chose to continue living in Bozeman. And that is precisely the reason why this was so unfair to Kramer....like he could have forced them to leave the area even he wanted to. I would amost guarantee you that he would still have his job if Fuller, Gatewood, et al. had become involved in these activities far away from Montana. That is also the reason I believe Hauck will survive the Wilson/Freeman episode....because it just will not seem as terrible to the good folks of Montana, since it happened in SoCal rather than Bozeman or Missoula.

John K wrote:that if the "infamous 6" athletes had all left Bozeman and moved to the east coast upon leaving the football/basketball programs, and then started their "drug cartel" in New York or Miami, this whole thing would have been a total non-story.

Well ... yeah, of course. Had they moved to Cuba to commit felonies and murder, it would have been even better. But unfortunately, it didn't work out that way.

Unfortunately, when one recruits dangerous people to a school in a certain location, those dangerous people are more likely to commit crimes in the location of that school than they are elsewhere in the country.

That's why most people get upset when you recruit dangerous people into a community.

Bay Area Cat....I have been meaning to ask if you are related to Greg Bergum, from Winifred? He was a friend of mine when I was at MSU in the late 70's....early 80's?

John K wrote:Bay Area Cat....I have been meaning to ask if you are related to Greg Bergum, from Winifred? He was a friend of mine when I was at MSU in the late 70's....early 80's?

Aye ... he's my second cousin. Good guy.

Do you ever seen him during homecoming in Bozeman? That's one of the constants in my life now, seeing those guys downtown in Bozeman during homecoming. Always much fun had by all.

Bay Area Cat wrote:

John K wrote:that if the "infamous 6" athletes had all left Bozeman and moved to the east coast upon leaving the football/basketball programs, and then started their "drug cartel" in New York or Miami, this whole thing would have been a total non-story.

Well ... yeah, of course. Had they moved to Cuba to commit felonies and murder, it would have been even better. But unfortunately, it didn't work out that way.

Unfortunately, when one recruits dangerous people to a school in a certain location, those dangerous people are more likely to commit crimes in the location of that school than they are elsewhere in the country.

That's why most people get upset when you recruit dangerous people into a community.

How do you know they were "dangerous people" before they came here? Maybe they got that way after they came to Bozeman and had they just stayed closer to home none of this ever would've happened to them.

I think if you look back through the court record books for Gallatin Co. and Bozeman, you might just as easily come to the conclusion that this kind of thing has been going on for a long, long time.

I know I don't consider Andre Fuller to have been a dangerous person. He graduated at or near the top of his class and both parents are educators.

Your posts sound suspiciously like you're trying to divert attention away from the real source of the problem.

John K wrote:Wasn't there a Demetrius Williams that played receiver for the Cats in 2003? I seem to remember that he may have even started a game or two, including the playoff game against Northern Iowa, due to injuries in our receiving corps late that season. Does anyone else remember him?

Also, the news about DeAngelo Wall reinforces what I have been saying all along....that if the "infamous 6" athletes had all left Bozeman and moved to the east coast upon leaving the football/basketball programs, and then started their "drug cartel" in New York or Miami, this whole thing would have been a total non-story. Most Montanans would not have even known about it, and even fewer would have cared. It was just our (and Kramer's) bad luck that they chose to continue living in Bozeman. And that is precisely the reason why this was so unfair to Kramer....like he could have forced them to leave the area even he wanted to. I would amost guarantee you that he would still have his job if Fuller, Gatewood, et al. had become involved in these activities far away from Montana. That is also the reason I believe Hauck will survive the Wilson/Freeman episode....because it just will not seem as terrible to the good folks of Montana, since it happened in SoCal rather than Bozeman or Missoula.

The sooner everyone can come to grips with the fact that Kramer was fired for more than legal problems, the better off we will be as a Bobcat Nation. Trust me people, the lack of educational control by Kramer was a major factor in the firing.

crazycat wrote: Your posts sound suspiciously like you're trying to divert attention away from the real source of the problem.

Plausible deniability generally doesn't help out people in leadership positions (except Presidents of the United States, apparently). I wasn't talking about whether anybody "should have known" that anyone was dangerous, but rather the reality that they did turn out to be dangerous (or at least reckless and selfish).

And the "real source of the problem" is?

Bay Area Cat wrote:

crazycat wrote: Your posts sound suspiciously like you're trying to divert attention away from the real source of the problem.

Plausible deniability generally doesn't help out people in leadership positions (except Presidents of the United States, apparently). I wasn't talking about whether anybody "should have known" that anyone was dangerous, but rather the reality that they did turn out to be dangerous (or at least reckless and selfish).

And the "real source of the problem" is?

I said that tongue in cheek, as if to implicate you in some way. Nyuk-nyuk.

I figured as much, but thanks for clarifying your 'dangerous' statements.