ISU Suspends Kramer for one game.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:44 pm

Like him or not Kramer was the ideal candidate at the time and is responsible for taking a team that had struggled for a better part of 15 years and turned them into winners. Keep in mind where we were at that time. This was not a plum job. We were not going to get a ton of great applicants. Kramer injected life and excitment and a winning tradition back into this program when we needed it most. I also am disappointed with the issues (grades, drop downs, legal troubles, double reverse pass), but he gave us what we needed at that time. Now is a new and diffferent era in Bobcat football and we are lucky to have a coach like Ash that has brought us a nationally ranked team while consistantly succeeding in the class room and in the community. It has always been great to be a Bobcat but it is especially rewarding now. Kramer gets my well deserved thanks for his part.

Attendance avg before Kramer: Approx. 7K-8K
Attendance when he left: 12K- 14K

60's Cat · Post by **60's Cat** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:15 pm

gtapp wrote:Like him or not Kramer was the ideal candidate at the time and is responsible for taking a team that had struggled for a better part of 15 years and turned them into winners. Keep in mind where we were at that time. This was not a plum job. We were not going to get a ton of great applicants. Kramer injected life and excitment and a winning tradition back into this program when we needed it most. I also am disappointed with the issues (grades, drop downs, legal troubles, double reverse pass), but he gave us what we needed at that time. Now is a new and diffferent era in Bobcat football and we are lucky to have a coach like Ash that has brought us a nationally ranked team while consistantly succeeding in the class room and in the community. It has always been great to be a Bobcat but it is especially rewarding now. Kramer gets my well deserved thanks for his part.

Attendance avg before Kramer: Approx. 7K-8K
Attendance when he left: 12K- 14K

This is all true and Kramer deserves accolades for it. The problem is he stayed about two years longer than he should have.

CapitalCityCat · Post by **CapitalCityCat** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:35 am

TrueCat wrote:A job and recruting a student athlete are completely different things! Are you kidding me?

What is your "logical response" to defending the asst. coach who sold meth?

How are they different? I asked you if your former employer (i.e. Coach Kramer) should be responsible for your actions AFTER you had left that place of employment (i.e. football team). You can't answer it, because you know it doesn't make sense.

My logical response is that Joe O'Brien was an idiot and made a terrible decision on his own merit(and he paid the price). How the hell is Kramer responsible for what Joe O'Brien did in his personal life away from the football field? What's your "logical response" to that? Actually, I don't even really care what your response is because I already know that you believe Kramer was at fault for everything that happened on his watch (wait... or is that after his watch?).

There are plenty of other teams and coaches that would love your support. Go find one that you can back unconditionally 100% of the time. Maybe Coach Delaney would be a good start?

TrueCat · Post by **TrueCat** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:52 am

HAHA! Ok, man, I hope you did not destroy your keyboard typing that last post. Some people are Kramer apologists...and some people are not. We will just agree to disagree...I am am just glad he is not our coach anymore.

CapitalCityCat · Post by **CapitalCityCat** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:59 am

TrueCat wrote:HAHA! Ok, man, I hope you did not destroy your keyboard typing that last post. Some people are Kramer apologists...and some people are not. We will just agree to disagree...I am am just glad he is not our coach anymore.

I see you just laughed it off and avoided the question... again. Nicely done!

TrueCat · Post by **TrueCat** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:05 am

I have no problem continung this conversation, but it is becoming a waste of everyone's time. You will see Kramer one way, I will see him another. We can just agree to disagree, or we can continue the conversation where you defend a sub .500 caoch who hired a meth dealer, could have cared less about graduation rates and has had issues at every school he has been at.

Let's just put and end to it, or to quote Mike McD from the movie ROUNDERS..."I can keep bustin you up all night"...

Maudlow · Post by **Maudlow** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:36 am

TrueCat wrote:I have no problem continung this conversation, but it is becoming a waste of everyone's time. You will see Kramer one way, I will see him another. We can just agree to disagree, or we can continue the conversation where you defend a sub .500 caoch who hired a meth dealer, could have cared less about graduation rates and has had issues at every school he has been at.

Let's just put and end to it, or to quote Mike McD from the movie ROUNDERS..."I can keep bustin you up all night"...

As I said in a previous post, I (and other people here) probably can never convince people like Truecat that overall Mike Kramer was a positive for the Bobcat Football program. That is perfectly fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Just recognize that the next time a topic pops up in the "College Athletics" section of Bobcatnation about Mike Kramer and someone posts a short sighted comment about how Mike Kramer is a terrible person and ruined Bobcat football people are going to disagree with that.

John K · Post by **John K** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:42 am

TrueCat wrote:I have no problem continung this conversation, but it is becoming a waste of everyone's time. You will see Kramer one way, I will see him another. We can just agree to disagree, or we can continue the conversation where you defend a sub .500 caoch who hired a meth dealer, could have cared less about graduation rates and has had issues at every school he has been at.

Let's just put and end to it, or to quote Mike McD from the movie ROUNDERS..."I can keep bustin you up all night"...

You're right. This reminds me of the conversatons/arguments I used to have with my ex-wife. Even though it would have been obvious to everyone but her that I was right

, I'd always eventually realize that she was never going to come around to my way of thinking, so I'd just smile and say "of course you're right honey...I don't know why it took me so long to see it your way"

.

TrueCat · Post by **TrueCat** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:50 am

HA! Bringing your ex wife into this is not really that funny, kind of sad.

However, it does seem apparent that we have come to a point where we are not going to agree and I am fine with that. I am just voicing my opinion, just like you.

John K · Post by **John K** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:01 pm

TrueCat wrote:HA! Bringing your ex wife into this is not really that funny, kind of sad.

However, it does seem apparent that we have come to a point where we are not going to agree and I am fine with that. I am just voicing my opinion, just like you.

I actually thought it was quite funny. Yet another topic on which we'll have to agree to disagree I guess.

TrueCat · Post by **TrueCat** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:12 pm

HA! There has to be something we agree on...hmmmm, how about the 2012 Bobcats are a great bunch of kids who are gonna make some serious noise this year???

NrthFce · Post by **NrthFce** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:15 pm

Sorry, been away for a while and just read the thread. I am going to have to agree with true at on this one. Much to many of some of your displeasures, a rather large circle of Cat fans I tend to hang with really view the Kramer era as a black cloud over Bobcat football. Just saying IMHO there is a strong contingent of fans out there that agree with true on the perception MSU was left with was due in fact to many poor decisions and turning a blind eye by our former football coach. I could get more into specifics with individual first hand knowledge and experiences, but find it unnessesary.

Unfortunately, the football coach might just be the most public figure at any college. I think the real turn around started the day he was gone. I wish every individual the best, but every time I read about him f'ing up at some other university, or getting at job after MSU caused so much "defamation of character" I feel like he owes us a piece of that settled out of court lawsuit in return.

Cheers

LongTimeCatFan · Post by **LongTimeCatFan** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:30 pm

I don't want to start a new thread, but Graves has been suspended indefinitely for continually being late to practice

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:52 pm

NrthFce wrote:Sorry, been away for a while and just read the thread. I am going to have to agree with true at on this one. Much to many of some of your displeasures, a rather large circle of Cat fans I tend to hang with really view the Kramer era as a black cloud over Bobcat football. Just saying IMHO there is a strong contingent of fans out there that agree with true on the perception MSU was left with was due in fact to many poor decisions and turning a blind eye by our former football coach. I could get more into specifics with individual first hand knowledge and experiences, but find it unnessesary.

Unfortunately, the football coach might just be the most public figure at any college. I think the real turn around started the day he was gone. I wish every individual the best, but every time I read about him f'ing up at some other university, or getting at job after MSU caused so much "defamation of character" I feel like he owes us a piece of that settled out of court lawsuit in return.

Cheers

If Kramer's tenure was a black cloud, then what was Solomonson's?!? A Black Hole? Get real...

NrthFce · Post by **NrthFce** » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:09 pm

Did Earle the Pearl have off field issues? Sure he failed putting a quality product on the field for game, disappointing me for five years. Kramer had a major role in making me ashamed of and damaging our community.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:32 pm

NrthFce wrote:Did Earle the Pearl have off field issues? Sure he failed putting a quality product on the field for game, disappointing me for five years. Kramer had a major role in making me ashamed of and damaging our community.

So you're blaming Kramer for the decisions made by 18-22 year old young men? Makes sense...

TrueCat · Post by **TrueCat** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:21 am

Kramer takes the blame for recruting those 18 to 22 year olds and bringing them into the Bobcat Family

John K · Post by **John K** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:05 am

TrueCat wrote:Kramer takes the blame for recruting those 18 to 22 year olds and bringing them into the Bobcat Family

But he gets no credit for taking a program that had been irrelevant for 15 years, and turning it into the 2nd best program in the BSC, or for doubling attendance during his tenure? In case you've forgotten, the football program pre-Kramer was like the basketball program is now. Nobody even cared about it, except for the most diehard of Babcat fans. But whatever...

Maudlow · Post by **Maudlow** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:13 am

TrueCat wrote:Kramer takes the blame for recruting those 18 to 22 year olds and bringing them into the Bobcat Family

Let me just make sure I understand what you are saying here TrueCat...In your eyes Mike Kramer can do no right, and Peter Fields can do no wrong. Mike Kramer gets all of the blame for bringing in bad apple recruits, and no credit for where the program is today. You are aware that Mr. Fields also signed off on all of those recruits right?

TrueCat · Post by **TrueCat** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:23 am

The AD signs off on the scholarship based on the coach's recommendation of the student athlete...c'mon man.

ISU Suspends Kramer for one game.

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