JJ charged with rape

[catgrad05]

So here is the bigger question. Will the new coach and interim AD "let the court system work" or will JJ actually be off the team? Guess we will be finding out shortly if things have actually changed or if the names have only changed.

[ilovethecats]

i'm with you guys. which is why the texts alpha has heard about mean nothing. unless she texted that she was going to set up jj for rape and this is how she was going to do it....it doesn't matter. she could have said she was going to ****** his brains out and it wouldn't matter. she can change her point at any time.

to be clear, and i've said this many times, i'm not saying jj is guilty. i have no idea nor to i care. but it's silly to speculate because no matter what scenario you come up with, on both sides, i can counter. but i wasn't there. and either were you. and even creepy old guys who read texts of college kids don't know either.

[BigBruceBaker]

In reading the compaint, which is the girls side of things, this does not pass the smell test for me. I have been with girls that say no, but usually that meant not yet. These things are very hard to really know, but right now I'm not on the JJ's guilty bandwagon.

So "no" doesn't really mean "NO"?

No, not every time. For many people this sounds so simple, she said no. But as I said, I have been with girls where it really meant ,not now. I am not advocating that the guy is entitled or anything like that, but many times a girl will say no and if a guy keeps pressing, she will go alright. If a girl is emphatic with a no, then yes no means no. I am not an eloquent writer, so my actual thoughts are hard to convey in written form, and I am not trying to offend or to be provocative, I'm simply saying what I read in that complaint.

HOLY CRAP. Really? Not only stupid to think this but stupid to post it.

[John K]

So here is the bigger question. Will the new coach and interim AD "let the court system work" or will JJ actually be off the team? Guess we will be finding out shortly if things have actually changed or if the names have only changed.

I have to believe that he'll be suspended indefinitely, pending the outcome of the legal proceedings. I can't imagine that UM would apply the old "sit him for one quarter" punishment, withr everything that's been going on there recently. I would be shocked if JJ is on the roster for the 2012 season.

[catgrad05]

So here is the bigger question. Will the new coach and interim AD "let the court system work" or will JJ actually be off the team? Guess we will be finding out shortly if things have actually changed or if the names have only changed.

I have to believe that he'll be suspended indefinitely, pending the outcome of the legal proceedings. I can't imagine that UM would apply the old "sit him for one quarter" punishment, withr everything that's been going on there recently. I would be shocked if JJ is on the roster for the 2012 season.

Maybe we should start a pool with everyone betting on when it is announced that he has been removed

[catgrad05]

Update. My bad, Engstrom is quoted in the NBC article on the first page of this thread as saying "the code of conduct calls for an immediate suspension and it will be put into effect right away".

[bobcat99]

This is going to be a nasty, nasty trial.

[couloir1]

not sure if there will be a trial...not many defense attorneys will risk a felony conviction from a jury trial...so i am anticipating a plea bargain...whether it is a trial or plea it is going to be very damaging to both parties...jmo...

[gtapp]

not sure if there will be a trial...not many defense attorneys will risk a felony conviction from a jury trial...so i am anticipating a plea bargain...whether it is a trial or plea it is going to be very damaging to both parties...jmo...

The problem with a plea is he could be listed on the sexual predator list and if he didn't do it I would think he would want a trial to try and clear his name.

[kennethnoisewater]

And there's also the rumor that she said she'd drop charges if he just left. He might not want to take the chance of losing the case, no matter how much he thinks it's a slam dunk.

To me, the part that's actually going to hurt his case is that she admitted to taking off his jacket and shirt. She is not just making up some ridiculous story about how he came in and forced her totally against her will. She was into him and wanted to get physical, but didn't want to have sex. There's a big difference between fooling around and having sex. And I get it, it's not easy to stop once she's opened that door, but you have to. There's not a lot of gray area with rape, I wouldn't think. Either you did or you didn't.

Honestly, I feel bad for the guy. Like I said, it's hard to stop once she's given you a little bit. If a guy is drunk, she takes off her shirt and she's making out with you, it's probably hard to see that line. Definitely not saying it's OK...he absolutely should have stopped. There's a reason we've all heard of the Femme Fatale...women have an amazing power over men when they start tempting us with sex. Many, many men in history have ruined their lives and their families' lives because of one bad decision. Put JJ on a very long list of pretty good guys (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because it doesn't matter) who made a bad decision and changed everything.

[couloir1]

gt...point well taken...he would be labeled as you point out...imo...it would be preferable to be labeled than to do hard time...years of probation and being labeled...there is a huge risk turning this case over to a jury...

kennynoisewater...the issue imo is that she said no...that is a pretty definitive response even when the activity is "hot and heavy"...

[Toucat]

I agree completely that no means no. But this is a difficult case. She says she said no, he says she did not say no, and they're the only two people who know what actually was said. Circumstantial evidence will be presented by both sides to try to sway the jury as to who to believe, but it ultimately will come down to whether a jury believes beyond a reasonable doubt that she did say no.

[kennethnoisewater]

gt...point well taken...he would be labeled as you point out...imo...it would be preferable to be labeled than to do hard time...years of probation and being labeled...there is a huge risk turning this case over to a jury...

kennynoisewater...the issue imo is that she said no...that is a pretty definitive response even when the activity is "hot and heavy"...

I get it. That's why I said multiple times in my post that he should have stopped or that what he did was wrong. I'm not saying no means maybe.

[PapaG]

Can somebody explain to me why "not tonight" matters at all when the charging affidavit also says she claims to have said "no"?

It's completely irrelevant to the case, and reading those charges, and if the actions taken by the alleged victim after the incident are accurate, I would not want to be in Jordan Johnson's shoes right now.

I did go to egriz to get their take on it, and as usual, the typical suspects over there have already cleared poor Jordy's soiled name, and have even gone as far to say that the alleged victim slept with the entire football and basketball teams, which again, would not matter a bit, and would be very difficult to prove unless the players themselves collected proof of sleeping with the young woman.

[bobcat99]

Can somebody explain to me why "not tonight" matters at all when the charging affidavit also says she claims to have said "no"?

It's completely irrelevant to the case, and reading those charges, and if the actions taken by the alleged victim after the incident are accurate, I would not want to be in Jordan Johnson's shoes right now.

I did go to egriz to get their take on it, and as usual, the typical suspects over there have already cleared poor Jordy's soiled name, and have even gone as far to say that the alleged victim slept with the entire football and basketball teams, which again, would not matter a bit, and would be very difficult to prove unless the players themselves collected proof of sleeping with the young woman.

There have been maybe 2-3 posters on EGriz that have acted like that. Don't act like everybody on there is doing that, c'mon Papa.

[CapitalCityCat]

Can somebody explain to me why "not tonight" matters at all when the charging affidavit also says she claims to have said "no"?

It's completely irrelevant to the case, and reading those charges, and if the actions taken by the alleged victim after the incident are accurate, I would not want to be in Jordan Johnson's shoes right now.

I did go to egriz to get their take on it, and as usual, the typical suspects over there have already cleared poor Jordy's soiled name, and have even gone as far to say that the alleged victim slept with the entire football and basketball teams, which again, would not matter a bit, and would be very difficult to prove unless the players themselves collected proof of sleeping with the young woman.

There have been maybe 2-3 posters on EGriz that have acted like that. Don't act like everybody on there is doing that, c'mon Papa.

He didn't imply everybody is doing that. He said "the typical suspects", and I can probably name the 2 or 3 guilty of doing that without even reading the posts.

[MSUcardshark]

If he wasn't a football player who happens to have Grizzlies on the front of his jersey, none of the people defending him would give 2 ****** about whether or not she technically said no or said maybe or not tonight. I don't understand how people can't see that it's bigger than a football issue. If there was any other allegation of rape against some college student i'm sure 99% of people would take the victim's side and want justice but just because there's college athletics involved everybody will fight to the death for or against it, even attacking the alleged victim. If it was your daughter I don't think you'd care if it was a football player or a computer geek, you'd just want justice one way or the other.

[bobcatfan15]

I agree completely that no means no. But this is a difficult case. She says she said no, he says she did not say no, and they're the only two people who know what actually was said. Circumstantial evidence will be presented by both sides to try to sway the jury as to who to believe, but it ultimately will come down to whether a jury believes beyond a reasonable doubt that she did say no.

Am I the only one who noticed that she had an exam and there were signs of an assault... I don't think that is he said she said stuff...

[TomCat88]

I agree completely that no means no. But this is a difficult case. She says she said no, he says she did not say no, and they're the only two people who know what actually was said. Circumstantial evidence will be presented by both sides to try to sway the jury as to who to believe, but it ultimately will come down to whether a jury believes beyond a reasonable doubt that she did say no.

Am I the only one who noticed that she had an exam and there were signs of an assault... I don't think that is he said she said stuff...

You're right, if it gets that far, the physical evidence will carry the day over their stories despite her story sounding stronger than his at this point. Her side will present all the information from the examination along with expert testimony and his side, which doesn't have the burden of proof, will apparently present some text messages and counter arguments with expert testimony primarily about her examination evidence. Since there are no witnesses I think it will boil down to the expert testimony. There will probably be expert testimony from both sides regarding her post-incident behavior, but I don't think that will be the key factor. If the defense can reasonably explain away the examination evidence, then he will probably win the case.

[CPrice91]

A majority of the comments following the article in the Missoulian are pretty pathetic....talk about denial...

Hell, even if JJ's completely innocent, many of those comments are sickening. "Poor whiney females." "You're too spoiled." "Most women view any sex as rape." "Women get away with legal rape when they lie."

Even something like "At its worst, Johnson committed rape" indicates a nonchalance about this issue that is unacceptable. Must these people be raped before they finally understand the extreme psychological trauma it causes? Good grief!