Ask an official

[catamaran]

I hear you about midgets.........I was a coach for a long time before I put on stripes

[Billings Cat]

for anyone who has been moved by my impassioned plea to become football officials (or the sport of your choice), there will be a meeting in Bozeman 6pm at willson school

I believe I heard that in the Billings football pool they have 20 new 1st year apprentice officials which is over 3 times the number that they lost from last season. That's not too bad...

[catamaran]

for anyone who has been moved by my impassioned plea to become football officials (or the sport of your choice), there will be a meeting in Bozeman 6pm at willson school

I believe I heard that in the Billings football pool they have 20 new 1st year apprentice officials which is over 3 times the number that they lost from last season. That's not too bad...

that really is a dream scenario for any pool, especially for one as wide reaching as Billings. we picked up, roughly, ten new guys and that's the most I've seen in a single year

[tetoncat]

I have a couple of questions from last weeks Carroll/Northern game. Two calls that i did not understand the mark off. First one Carroll gets called for player going out of bounds then coming back in to catch the ball. It was I think 3rd and 3 or so. They did not mark off any yards Is this just a loss of down penalty. The second one the signaled a defensive holding. Carroll had the ball on 30, the play went to about the 15. They marked the penalty off 1/2 distance to goal from end of the play and Carroll ended up with ball on about the 7. I have never seen a holding penalty added to the end of the run. The flag was away from the ball carrier and they did not signal any kind of personal foul. wouldn't they have to either take the play or a 10 or 15 yard penalty from the previous spot.

[catamaran]

I have a couple of questions from last weeks Carroll/Northern game. Two calls that i did not understand the mark off. First one Carroll gets called for player going out of bounds then coming back in to catch the ball. It was I think 3rd and 3 or so. They did not mark off any yards Is this just a loss of down penalty. The second one the signaled a defensive holding. Carroll had the ball on 30, the play went to about the 15. They marked the penalty off 1/2 distance to goal from end of the play and Carroll ended up with ball on about the 7. I have never seen a holding penalty added to the end of the run. The flag was away from the ball carrier and they did not signal any kind of personal foul. wouldn't they have to either take the play or a 10 or 15 yard penalty from the previous spot.

(disclaimer) I'm not completely thorough in my college rule knowledge but will try in general(disclaimer)
1. In the first penalty, it is illegal touching once the player goes out of bounds on their own and then makes a play. I don't know if there is a LOD in college
2. Holding, either offensive or defensive is a spot foul...........the hold must have been in an area that would have the enforcement spot a "half the distance" measurement

[GrizinWashington]

I have a question from last week's Griz/Western game. The Griz threw a pass, which was touched, but not caught, but a legal receiver. The ball was then caught by an offensive linemen. At first, the officials marked the ball as though the catch was legal. They then huddled (for what seemed like the better part of the afternoon), and threw a flag for illegal touching. I assumed the play wasn't legal, but wasn't certain since it touched a legal receiver first. Thoughts?

[catamaran]

they must have missed the tip

[GrizinWashington]

they must have missed the tip

Oh, they couldn't have. I mean, it wasn't just a tip. It was a deal where it hit the receiver right in the numbers and bounced high into the air before the O-lineman caught it. They huddled for sometime, so I know they saw the ball hit the eligible receiver first.

[catamaran]

they must have missed the tip

Oh, they couldn't have. I mean, it wasn't just a tip. It was a deal where it hit the receiver right in the numbers and bounced high into the air before the O-lineman caught it. They huddled for sometime, so I know they saw the ball hit the eligible receiver first.

like ive stated, im not a master of the college rules by any sort but apparently a forward pass has to touch a b (defensive)player for any a player to become eligible.

[GrizinWashington]

they must have missed the tip

Oh, they couldn't have. I mean, it wasn't just a tip. It was a deal where it hit the receiver right in the numbers and bounced high into the air before the O-lineman caught it. They huddled for sometime, so I know they saw the ball hit the eligible receiver first.

like ive stated, im not a master of the college rules by any sort but apparently a forward pass has to touch a b (defensive)player for any a player to become eligible.

Gotcha! Thanks catamaran!

[catamaran]

under rule 7-3-3 any b player and any eligible a player is allowed to touch a forward pass

[Scrogger]

Let me take a shot at the holding.

I believe the rule is something like what hurts the offending team the most. So in this case since the "D" holding happened behind the end of the run, the enforcement of the penalty will occur at the end of the run.

An example of an offensive holding call. Say the runner ran for 10 yards and there was a hold or illegal block 8 yard beyond the line of gain. The enforcement of the penalty would be from the spot of the foul, making it First and Twelve.

[WSSMommyCat]

they must have missed the tip

Oh, they couldn't have. I mean, it wasn't just a tip. It was a deal where it hit the receiver right in the numbers and bounced high into the air before the O-lineman caught it. They huddled for sometime, so I know they saw the ball hit the eligible receiver first.

I was at a party this weekend with an official who does the NAIA (Carroll, Northern) circuit. They asked him this same question. He said since the lineman was the first person to officially have possession of the ball, it was illegal, since he was not an eligible receiver, even though it had been tipped by an eligible receiver. Clear as mud?

[GrizinWashington]

they must have missed the tip

Oh, they couldn't have. I mean, it wasn't just a tip. It was a deal where it hit the receiver right in the numbers and bounced high into the air before the O-lineman caught it. They huddled for sometime, so I know they saw the ball hit the eligible receiver first.

I was at a party this weekend with an official who does the NAIA (Carroll, Northern) circuit. They asked him this same question. He said since the lineman was the first person to officially have possession of the ball, it was illegal, since he was not an eligible receiver, even though it had been tipped by an eligible receiver. Clear as mud?

Thanks WSSMC. And believe it or not, VERY clear!!

[catamaran]

Let me take a shot at the holding.

I believe the rule is something like what hurts the offending team the most. So in this case since the "D" holding happened behind the end of the run, the enforcement of the penalty will occur at the end of the run.

An example of an offensive holding call. Say the runner ran for 10 yards and there was a hold or illegal block 8 yard beyond the line of gain. The enforcement of the penalty would be from the spot of the foul, making it First and Twelve.

holding is always a spot foul

[tetoncat]

So they could call illegal contact, or pass interference and those would not be, but holding is a spot foul. Does not some times seem to be much difference other than judgement as to which could be called then.

[catamaran]

So they could call illegal contact, or pass interference and those would not be, but holding is a spot foul. Does not some times seem to be much difference other than judgement as to which could be called then.

that's kind of tricky to explain......it falls under the "all but one" principle. If there was defensive holding downfield, it would be taken from the LOS on an incomplete and declined (normally) on a completion. Once the ball's in the air is when DPI comes into play

[tetoncat]

That is where my question was. Ball was caught when flag came in in an area farther down field than receiver. He gained about 15 yards on play, they called holding, but marked penalty from end of the play. Even by your latest explanation it seems that it would have been declined since he caught the ball. No biggy, I just had not seen that called that way before , or marked off that way I guess.

[cats2506]

I have a question.

What is the protocol that refs use when a player cataches a ball near the sideline and none of them saw if the player was inbounds or not. I have seen the big sky refs have a conference, when none of them knows what happened how do they decide what the call should be?

[coachouert]

I also have a question on holding calls: when is it from the original spot and when is it a "spot" foul? Against South Dakota, the Cats had a series with a hold which ended up being a 10 yard penalty from the original line of scrimmage. South Dakota had a hold call a series or two later that ended up being from the spot. Both penalities were while they were on offense, but the cats ended up being penalized 10 yards and repeat the down (I don't remember what the result of the play actually was, but I'm pretty sure it was positive yardage) whereas South Dakota ended up being penalized only like 4-5 yards and repeat the down. The result of their play was close to a first down or a first down. I was confused...and a little drunk...