We refuse to play UND as long as they are the Fighting Sioux

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:01 am

I can only speak for myself BAC, but if they did that I would buy the jersey (made in China) and wear it. (I am not a jersey wearer)

If they had the balls to do that, I would make sure it never got under my skin and showed how weak most of you really are.

Egg Salad · Post by **Egg Salad** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:04 am

I have a good logo in my head.

Think of a 300 pound guy wolfing down some McDonald's, with a mushroom cloud in the background.

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:27 am

Egg Salad wrote:I have a good logo in my head.

Think of a 300 pound guy wolfing down some McDonald's, with a mushroom cloud in the background.

Add 50-75K in credit card debt, somehow you got one hell off a mascot!

Post by **SonomaCat** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:27 am

Egg Salad wrote:I have a good logo in my head.

Think of a 300 pound guy wolfing down some McDonald's, with a mushroom cloud in the background.

Exactly. Perfect.

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:40 am

I love the idea of that logo, but lets be real here.

Just the thought of a 300 lb American guy wolfing down McDonalds may cause an uproar in the muslim community, and we certainly wouldn't want that. So this could never happen.

DriftCat · Post by **DriftCat** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:51 am

I'm sorry, but if you are offended by a college teams name you have entirely too much time on your hands. I guess since I am 1/2 Irish I should be offended by Notre Dame? Do you think that I like being depicted as an angry, fightin' leprechaun? How is the name fighting sioux deragatory? It has to do with the history of that region and nothing else. People are waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy too sensitive anymore.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:52 am

Ahh yes, the PC Police strike again!

GET OVER IT PEOPLE! The first step to getting over our racial problems in this country is to not let them offend us.

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:10 pm

grizzh8r wrote:Ahh yes, the PC Police strike again!

GET OVER IT PEOPLE! The first step to getting over our racial problems in this country is to not let them offend us.

This makes way to much sense, it will make people's heads explode so it will never take hold.

TeacherCat · Post by **TeacherCat** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:52 pm

I really don't have an opinion either way on this issue, but here is a link that talks about the history of the 'Fighting Sioux' name.

http://www.und.edu/org/bridges/annis.html

Good old Wikipedia does a nice job of telling the story of when the Ralf was being built and the threat to pull the money from that.

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:03 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:Fine ... let's go with Fighting Americans.

Then the French can create cartoon caricatures and stereotypes of us to depict us however they want to market their sports team. I'm sure that would work out well. I'm sure we'd all be very proud of the result and we'd all join hands and talk about how "complimentary" it is of our culture for the French to do this.

Pretty denegrating cartoon caracture, huh?

That looks proud, noble, and fierce. I'd say it'd be a pretty good target for many to shoot for today.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:29 am

This story is probably not representative of all Sioux. But, I went to school for undergrad at Minot State University in Minot ND. I was very good friends with a member of the Sioux tribe there and he had no problems with UND's mascot.

As Chiocat said, the mascot is the characterization of a strong proud man.

I've never understood this whole thing (and I grew up right new to the Fort Peck Indian Reservation so I have much history with Indians and there are many many good individuals out there).

Sportin' Life · Post by **Sportin' Life** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:32 am

ChiOCat wrote:

That looks proud, noble, and fierce. I'd say it'd be a pretty good target for many to shoot for today.

Isn't that a Phil Sheridan quote?

Sorry I couldn't resist.

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:15 am

Sportin' Life wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:

That looks proud, noble, and fierce. I'd say it'd be a pretty good target for many to shoot for today.
Isn't that a Phil Sheridan quote?

Sorry I couldn't resist.

That sounds about right. Or maybe it was Sherman. Or Custer, I don't know. But the historical reference is very nice indeed.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:16 am

ChiOCat wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:Fine ... let's go with Fighting Americans.

Then the French can create cartoon caricatures and stereotypes of us to depict us however they want to market their sports team. I'm sure that would work out well. I'm sure we'd all be very proud of the result and we'd all join hands and talk about how "complimentary" it is of our culture for the French to do this.
Pretty denegrating cartoon caracture, huh?

That looks proud, noble, and fierce. I'd say it'd be a pretty good target for many to shoot for today.

If you are interested in finding out why people don't like it, you should do some research into the specific complaints that the Sioux tribes that (a majority of the members voting) voted against it have expressed. There may well be implications of the mascot that run deeper than the one picture you posted. It's not merely a matter of an emblem -- it is also impacted by the entire treatment of the icon/image by everyone at UND.

Again, it's impossible for anybody who isn't a member of the group being depicted by a sport's teams marketing icon (mascot) to say that it is or is not complimentary or respectful with any degree of credibility.

When it comes to things like this, we have to defer to those people who are actually affected by it one way or another.

And when I say "affected," I'm not referring to those people at UND who would have to change their marketing icon for their sports teams. I am speaking of the people whose cultural identity is being used as that marketing icon for an institution's sports teams.

theblackgecko · Post by **theblackgecko** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:27 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:Fine ... let's go with Fighting Americans.

Then the French can create cartoon caricatures and stereotypes of us to depict us however they want to market their sports team. I'm sure that would work out well. I'm sure we'd all be very proud of the result and we'd all join hands and talk about how "complimentary" it is of our culture for the French to do this.
Pretty denegrating cartoon caracture, huh?

That looks proud, noble, and fierce. I'd say it'd be a pretty good target for many to shoot for today.
If you are interested in finding out why people don't like it, you should do some research into the specific complaints that the Sioux tribes that (a majority of the members voting) voted against it have expressed. There may well be implications of the mascot that run deeper than the one picture you posted. It's not merely a matter of an emblem -- it is also impacted by the entire treatment of the icon/image by everyone at UND.

Again, it's impossible for anybody who isn't a member of the group being depicted by a sport's teams marketing icon (mascot) to say that it is or is not complimentary or respectful with any degree of credibility.

When it comes to things like this, we have to defer to those people who are actually affected by it one way or another.

And when I say "affected," I'm not referring to those people at UND who would have to change their marketing icon for their sports teams. I am speaking of the people whose cultural identity is being used as that marketing icon for an institution's sports teams.

The problem is that the Sioux were not always offended by UND. From what I heard from my UND alum friend, the whole brew ha-ha concerns payments that UND refused to make to the Sioux tribe. Like many things, it really boils down to money.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:13 pm

That may or may not be true ... but I think we'd be wise to hold out for something more of hearsay from a guy who is probably already inclined to be cynical about the Native American position to decide if it's true or not.

If you can find me a published and reliable reference that shows this to be the case, then it would indeed be damning. Absent that, it could also well be a rumor floated by UND folks to try to discredit the Sioux.

ChiOCat · Post by **ChiOCat** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:53 pm

We should all just go the way of the Moorhead Spuds and the Concordia Cobbers

Hmmm, do you think anyone would be offended by the Lincoln County tobacco leaves?

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:48 pm

If the Fighting Sioux played the Fighting Irish would we find out who won the game or would there just be a lot of drinking going on until everyone forgot there was a game?

Straight up who wins that fight?

urcrackinmeup · Post by **urcrackinmeup** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:59 pm

On a related note, I want to protest the name of the Turtle Mountains. I have seen them and they are not mountains... hills at best. Can I file a lawsuit?

WetWaderMT · Post by **WetWaderMT** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:41 pm

I also want to file a suit against the Yankees as that term originated w/ the British during the Revolutionary War and had nothing but negative connotations associated with its origin. I also want to sue every southerner who has ever used the "Y" word because they don't use it in a positive manner and they aren't a "Y" so they can't call me one. BTW, I was born and raised in the northern part of the US and my wife and family are from the south, so not only am I "affected" by this words use (to satisfy BAC's criteria) but I also experience it first hand on a regular basis and I'm offended!

WHERE'S MY MONEY?!?

p.s. If you can't sense the sarcasm in this post you might need to check your pulse!