How can WE help solve these problems?

[BleedsBlue&Gold]

coach hysell was pretty strict with apperance, dress code, facial hair etc. he also wouldn't tolerate any of the "little stuff." I don't think there were many problems with players legally or academically on his watch.

[tetoncat]

Cledus, I don't buy that they can't afford a shirt and tie. Look at the prices they pay for sneakers these days, having to have the right brand or colors. Also, I have purchased the baggy shorts and shirts for my own kids and believe me I can get a shirt and tie for myself cheaper than what they purchase to have the in thing.

[SonomaCat]

I'm really not all that convinced that looking like an extra from "Leave it to Beaver" has that big of an impact on people in a positive way. I work in an area and an industry where nobody bats an eye at people wearing shorts and flip flops (and having long hair and sporting tattoos) to work on a warm day ... yet Silicon Valley and its tech offshoots around the country have created more wealth than any other industry in the last century -- because of the creativity and outside-the-box thinking shown by exactly those types of non-conforming types.

Individuality is not the problem ... and it's often a good thing. We do want these kids to learn how to think for themselves and, ideally, to be creative and forward-thinking so they can be the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm not saying that one can't do that while dressing like a circa 1985 "professional," but I am also not a big believer in the idea of conformity for the sake of conformity.

Let these guys be who they want to be in terms of their dress and appearance in their daily lives, but certainly judge them on their behavior, regardless of what they look like.

Dressing up for game days and for press photos? Certainly. I think that's a good idea. But beyond that, let them find their own way.

[tampa_griz]

I'm really not all that convinced that looking like an extra from "Leave it to Beaver" has that big of an impact on people in a positive way. I work in an area and an industry where nobody bats an eye at people wearing shorts and flip flops (and having long hair and sporting tattoos) to work on a warm day ... yet Silicon Valley and its tech offshoots around the country have created more wealth than any other industry in the last century -- because of the creativity and outside-the-box thinking shown by exactly those types of non-conforming types.

Individuality is not the problem ... and it's often a good thing. We do want these kids to learn how to think for themselves and, ideally, to be creative and forward-thinking so they can be the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm not saying that one can't do that while dressing like a circa 1985 "professional," but I am also not a big believer in the idea of conformity for the sake of conformity.

Let these guys be who they want to be in terms of their dress and appearance in their daily lives, but certainly judge them on their behavior, regardless of what they look like.

Dressing up for game days and for press photos? Certainly. I think that's a good idea. But beyond that, let them find their own way.

Keep in mind that the tech bubble of the Silicon Valley was exactly that....a bubble. I've worked as a techie for a few companies that didn't care for a professional look on most days. But when interviewing,meeting with a client, or representing the company publicly you had to spruce it up. First impressions are huge.

But I agree that you can't control what people wear on their own time. But come game day or press appearance, figure out a way to make yourself presentable.

[SonomaCat]

Keep in mind that the tech bubble of the Silicon Valley was exactly that....a bubble.

There was a tech bubble. There still has been (and will continue to be) a huge net creation of wealth made by the better tech companies. It wasn't a passing fad ... as Google's share price reminds us on a daily basis (and mocks those of us who thought it was too pricey at its IPO).

Stupid-high valuations for .com companies that we knew were pointless at the time (lipstick.com always leaps to mind) are a thing of the past, but the value of innovations in the tech field made mostly by people who don't accept the conformity shirt and tie approach are just as high today as they were during the bubble ... even moreso now, actually (since the ideas actually have to make sense and work to make money now).

But aside from our off-topic discussion, I agree with the rest of your post. You have to clean up well when necessary ... but not to the point of requiring haircuts, etc.

[tetoncat]

I believe however that what we all would support is the discipline that comes along with the dress codes, haircuts, etc. The Yankees can't have facial hair yet guys long to play for them. NBA now requires its players to wear suits to the games for a more professional image.

We cannot ask the coaches to clean up our image academically and legally yet not support them or expect them to clean up appearance first. Can you imagine the uproar if the first game next year the players appear on TV announcing themselves the way it was described earlier in this post.

[SonomaCat]

I agree ... if we start paying even our second-tier players $10M per year to play for MSU, they probably won't mind getting rid of their facial hair and cutting their hair high and tight.

Until then, I don't think it's an idea we need to ponder.

Notice that the Royals, Devil Rays, and other low-budget teams don't have those sorts of rules....

I do agree, though, that press conference and photo op attire should be monitored and enforced.

[tampa_griz]

I agree ... if we start paying even our second-tier players $10M per year to play for MSU, they probably won't mind getting rid of their facial hair and cutting their hair high and tight.

Until then, I don't think it's an idea we need to ponder.

Notice that the Royals, Devil Rays, and other low-budget teams don't have those sorts of rules....

I do agree, though, that press conference and photo op attire should be monitored and enforced.

The get to play football in front of thousands of adoring fans. A lot of them get their education paid for. A player that refuses to clean himself up while representing the team on the field, at a press conference, etc. sends a pretty strong message where his priorities are.

[SonomaCat]

Just to cut to the chase -- I don't consider long hair or facial hair to be something that is unprofessional or needs to be discouraged.

Dressing nice for public appearances on behalf of the team, yes, that's reasonable.

Asking them to look like they are in the army? No.

[tampa_griz]

Just to cut to the chase -- I don't consider long hair or facial hair to be something that is unprofessional or needs to be discouraged.

Dressing nice for public appearances on behalf of the team, yes, that's reasonable.

Asking them to look like they are in the army? No.

High and Tight is the way to go. That was the rule when I was in high school. It was a good rule. It's a choice. Look like a professional and play ball or look like you just got off the Motley Crue reunion tour and don't.

[SonomaCat]

Just to cut to the chase -- I don't consider long hair or facial hair to be something that is unprofessional or needs to be discouraged.

Dressing nice for public appearances on behalf of the team, yes, that's reasonable.

Asking them to look like they are in the army? No.

High and Tight is the way to go. That was the rule when I was in high school. It was a good rule. It's a choice. Look like a professional and play ball or look like you just got off the Motley Crue reunion tour and don't.

Well, when I was in school we were all shaving designs into our hair ... but I don't do that anymore.

[tampa_griz]

Just to cut to the chase -- I don't consider long hair or facial hair to be something that is unprofessional or needs to be discouraged.

Dressing nice for public appearances on behalf of the team, yes, that's reasonable.

Asking them to look like they are in the army? No.

High and Tight is the way to go. That was the rule when I was in high school. It was a good rule. It's a choice. Look like a professional and play ball or look like you just got off the Motley Crue reunion tour and don't.

Well, when I was in school we were all shaving designs into our hair ... but I don't do that anymore.

And when I was in high school I wore my hair long. But I didn't play sports (for many more reasons than my hair for sure).

A strict, no-exception attitude regarding length of hair, facial hair, tattoos, etc. is a good test to weed out undesirables. Not that men with long hair are inherently of questionable character....but those that refuse to adhere obviously have other interests.

[tetoncat]

That was the point i was trying to make earlier. It is not about the long hair, or facial hair or whatever. It just seems like an easy rule for a coach to put in to see who listens and does what the coaches as and who doesn't and is playing for themselves. Simple discipline to weed out those who think they are above the rules. It could be curfew, hair length, practice times, etc. I don't even care about the dress clothes. Maybe all public appearances they have to have on Bobcat clothing.

[SonomaCat]

A strict, no-exception attitude regarding length of hair, facial hair, tattoos, etc. is a good test to weed out undesirables. Not that men with long hair are inherently of questionable character....but those that refuse to adhere obviously have other interests.

This is actually exactly the kind of thing I don't go for at all ....

I am all for requirements that are practical have a specific advantage to the program if a player is willing to adhere to it (lifting weights, abstaining from unhealthy activities, attending study tables, etc., etc.).

But when a coach puts rules into place that have zero bearing on the player's performance, that's just a dick move in my mind. If you are testing a guy by seeing if he would be willing to cut his hair or wear a pink shirt around campus, or whatever ... that's just hazing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for hazing in certain circumstances (and to limited degree). If a frat wants to make pledge dress funny or shave his head, I have no problem with that. But I don't think it's the kind of thing that I would like to see coaches pull.

Not to mention that it would cost them a lot of recruits.

[Cat Grad]

A strict, no-exception attitude regarding length of hair, facial hair, tattoos, etc. is a good test to weed out undesirables. Not that men with long hair are inherently of questionable character....but those that refuse to adhere obviously have other interests.

This is actually exactly the kind of thing I don't go for at all ....

I am all for requirements that are practical have a specific advantage to the program if a player is willing to adhere to it (lifting weights, abstaining from unhealthy activities, attending study tables, etc., etc.).

But when a coach puts rules into place that have zero bearing on the player's performance, that's just a dick move in my mind. If you are testing a guy by seeing if he would be willing to cut his hair or wear a pink shirt around campus, or whatever ... that's just hazing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for hazing in certain circumstances (and to limited degree). If a frat wants to make pledge dress funny or shave his head, I have no problem with that. But I don't think it's the kind of thing that I would like to see coaches pull.

Not to mention that it would cost them a lot of recruits.

...I don't see a thing wrong with making someone who misses easy tackles wear pink panties during the next weeks practices...

[SonomaCat]

A strict, no-exception attitude regarding length of hair, facial hair, tattoos, etc. is a good test to weed out undesirables. Not that men with long hair are inherently of questionable character....but those that refuse to adhere obviously have other interests.

This is actually exactly the kind of thing I don't go for at all ....

I am all for requirements that are practical have a specific advantage to the program if a player is willing to adhere to it (lifting weights, abstaining from unhealthy activities, attending study tables, etc., etc.).

But when a coach puts rules into place that have zero bearing on the player's performance, that's just a dick move in my mind. If you are testing a guy by seeing if he would be willing to cut his hair or wear a pink shirt around campus, or whatever ... that's just hazing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for hazing in certain circumstances (and to limited degree). If a frat wants to make pledge dress funny or shave his head, I have no problem with that. But I don't think it's the kind of thing that I would like to see coaches pull.

Not to mention that it would cost them a lot of recruits.

...I don't see a thing wrong with making someone who misses easy tackles wear pink panties during the next weeks practices...

Now that's something different altogether ... that's negative reinforcement and arguably DOES have a practical and specific impact on a player's performance.

[Cat Grad]

A strict, no-exception attitude regarding length of hair, facial hair, tattoos, etc. is a good test to weed out undesirables. Not that men with long hair are inherently of questionable character....but those that refuse to adhere obviously have other interests.

This is actually exactly the kind of thing I don't go for at all ....

I am all for requirements that are practical have a specific advantage to the program if a player is willing to adhere to it (lifting weights, abstaining from unhealthy activities, attending study tables, etc., etc.).

But when a coach puts rules into place that have zero bearing on the player's performance, that's just a dick move in my mind. If you are testing a guy by seeing if he would be willing to cut his hair or wear a pink shirt around campus, or whatever ... that's just hazing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for hazing in certain circumstances (and to limited degree). If a frat wants to make pledge dress funny or shave his head, I have no problem with that. But I don't think it's the kind of thing that I would like to see coaches pull.

Not to mention that it would cost them a lot of recruits.

...I don't see a thing wrong with making someone who misses easy tackles wear pink panties during the next weeks practices...

Now that's something different altogether ... that's negative reinforcement and arguably DOES have a practical and specific impact on a player's performance.

...especially if they're women and wrestle--as long as there's mud or jello involved and it's a spectator sport...geeezzzz, it gets to me, watching guys grabbing each other in the name of sport...

[Cledus]

Cledus, I don't buy that they can't afford a shirt and tie. Look at the prices they pay for sneakers these days, having to have the right brand or colors. Also, I have purchased the baggy shorts and shirts for my own kids and believe me I can get a shirt and tie for myself cheaper than what they purchase to have the in thing.

I was only trying to say you can still manufacture a crisp, professional appearance without having to spend a ton of $$. A buck fifty can of starch and $10 iron can do wonders.

Hell, even washing your clothes can make you look good.

Some people can afford expensive, new outfits. Some can't.

[GOKATS]

With all the bad events going around MSU athletics I remember something from a couple of years ago. At the last Cat/Griz football game in Bozeman (2005) the starting lineup introductions kind of bothered me. Let me explain.... As a member of the media working for the Montana stations that cover Griz F-ball and the Cat/Griz game I was working the game in Bozeman. The team introductions are pre-produced and run off of tape or hard disk. UM provided professional looking players in their uniforms and no "attitude". The tape that was provided of the MSU players were embarassing to say the least. Some of the players were dressed in "ghetto" type clothing, doo-rags and the such. Talking "ghetto" talk and using "ganster" type names. Not all of the players did this but some did and it looked really bad. I was, to say the least, a little embarassed as a Bobcat fan. I don't recall which players did this but it could have included some of the players that are now looking at legal charges. I know that a lot of times players do this for intimidation or to have some fun. I understand that. But looking back now in hindsight (which is always 20/20) maybe there needs to be more discipline on how to act and present ones self as a member of the athletic program. Not that this would 100% prevent players getting in trouble but it could be a red flag. Just my 2 cents worth...

I have to admit I was a bit embarrassed by that whole situation. I guess I kind of wrote it off as part of the whole Cat/griz game hype- we'll kick your ass type stuff, but in retrospect I think it was a poor representation of Bobcat Athletics. JMHO

[grizzh8r]

Programs need to be recruiting the person, not just the player. These days, you can't just look at the talent, you need to look into the person's character. Recruiters need to take a few minutes and ask around about the potential recuit's off-the-field behavior when they are in the hometown.

If only that were a fool-proof method...

From what I have read, Jimmy Wilson was a good student, came from a good family, etc. Just like Andre Fuller.

Allegedly, one is a murderer, and the other is a coke dealer...

I hate our society....