Redshirting

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:33 pm

How/why would one formally (and irreversably) "declare" a redshirt season? Would MSU have to file a form with the NCAA noting that a particular player is redshirting that season?

I have no knowledge on the topic, but my gut tells me that those arguing the "5 in 4" thing have a good case.

HelenaCat95 · Post by **HelenaCat95** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:35 pm

Lex Hilliard is the perfect example.
He did not redshirt his freshman year. He got hurt prior to his senior year/4th year of eligibility. He is redshirting this year and will play next year.....his 5th year to play 4.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:37 pm

You don't "declare" a redshirt year. The confusion comes when you hear a coach say that they are going to redshirt so-and-so, and then, so-and-so plays during the season. So-and-so can still redshirt later. In fact, so-and-so can redshirt any of the next 3 years.

I think there might be some instances where the eligibility issue gets a little cloudy. For example, a Mormon can start a program, leave on their mission, and then play again. Another example might be Chris Wenke (Florida). He was about 40 years old when he finally retired from college football.

Also, the medical redshirt clouds the issue. A long time ago, Ron Muri actually spent 6 years in the program to play 4. The medical redshirt, I believe, comes into play when the player has played less than a certain percentage of game time for the season...not sure about that, though.

So, LTown, Aaron Mason can still redshirt.

There used to be rule against just redshirting anyone simply because you wanted to. That rule was in effect for a few years around 1980. Thankfully, the NCAA re-thought their idiotic rule and now, a player can redshirt whenever. Although, it is mostly up to the coaching staff how to juggle redshirts.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:48 pm

HelenaCat95 wrote:Lex Hilliard is the perfect example.
He did not redshirt his freshman year. He got hurt prior to his senior year/4th year of eligibility. He is redshirting this year and will play next year.....his 5th year to play 4.

Not exactly the perfect example, because if Lex had redshirted earlier, he was still eligible for a medical redshirt this year because he was injured prior to the start of the season, which must be approved by the NCAA .

Still boils down to 4 years out of 5.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:59 pm

[quote="Bleedinbluengold"]You don't "declare" a redshirt year. The confusion comes when you hear a coach say that they are going to redshirt so-and-so, and then, so-and-so plays during the season. So-and-so can still redshirt later. In fact, so-and-so can redshirt any of the next 3 years.

I think there might be some instances where the eligibility issue gets a little cloudy. For example, a Mormon can start a program, leave on their mission, and then play again. Another example might be Chris Wenke (Florida). He was about 40 years old when he finally retired from college football.

Also, the medical redshirt clouds the issue. A long time ago, Ron Muri actually spent 6 years in the program to play 4. The medical redshirt, I believe, comes into play when the player has played less than a certain percentage of game time for the season...not sure about that, though.

So, LTown, Aaron Mason can still redshirt.

There used to be rule against just redshirting anyone simply because you wanted to. That rule was in effect for a few years around 1980. Thankfully, the NCAA re-thought their idiotic rule and now, a player can redshirt whenever. Although, it is mostly up to the coaching staff how to juggle redshirts.[/quote]

I don't think the situation Ron had exists anymore. You can have two reshirts if one is medical, but I think it all has to happen within five years of eligibility.

And yes, it is generally the coaching staff determining the red shirt status of players, especially HS recruits (unless there is an immediate impact player and a need at the position). Kramer is now in the position that it would be very rare for him to burn a redshirt on a 'pup'.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:29 pm

OK this thread has gone on along way and I think most of what I am to post has been posted, but to summerize. As has been said over and over the key concept is that today athletes has 5 consecutive years to use up four years of elligiblity. A "redshirt year" is a term to describe an athlete who is part of an college athletic team who did not use a year of elligiblity. At the end of each athletic year a school need to ask it self did this player use up a year of elligiblity if he did you subtract that from the number of years of elligiblity he has remaining. To "redshirt" is to NOT use a year of elligiblity. If a kid is pulled out of a redshirt with one game to play in the season, he essentially "burns one year of elligiblity" on one game. Technically by the NCAA standards he did not redshirt that year he just did not play until that season until the last year. They do not even make any kind of note about it until the entire season is over and the school reports which players used up elligiblity. If a kid used up a year of elligiblity he lable an elliglble player( by the NCAA), if he did not he is labled a non-elligle player (by the NCAA) and a redshirt by the University and by the fans. Right now the NCAA cares more about the 4 in 5 concept when it comes to elligiblity than any thing else. If you played in a game you lost one of your 4 years, of elligiblity, if you did not you used one of your 5 consecutive years.

To say someone burned his red shirt year is a double negitive. I did not, not use a year of elligiblity.

I have heard some one refer to a player as having burned his/her redshirt year, when they were "pulled of there redshirt" to play in a game(s) late in the season. What they really has happened though is that the player has burned a year of "elligiblity" not redshirt.

Clear as mud. Redshirt is just a term meaning they did not use up elligiblity. The NCAA does not care how many years you do not use elligiblity, they only care about how many you do!

Now ............. There are a handful of ways to apply for a "hardship" to either extend the 5 years to 6, or to have a year of elligiblity not charged / counted against a player, essential reclaim a year of elligiblity, but I am not going their.

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:04 pm

mslacat wrote:OK this thread has gone on along way and I think most of what I am to post has been posted, but to summerize. As has been said over and over the key concept is that today athletes has 5 consecutive years to use up four years of elligiblity. A "redshirt year" is a term to describe an athlete who is part of an college athletic team who did not use a year of elligiblity. At the end of each athletic year a school need to ask it self did this player use up a year of elligiblity if he did you subtract that from the number of years of elligiblity he has remaining. To "redshirt" is to NOT use a year of elligiblity. If a kid is pulled out of a redshirt with one game to play in the season, he essentially "burns one year of elligiblity" on one game. Technically by the NCAA standards he did not redshirt that year he just did not play until that season until the last year. They do not even make any kind of note about it until the entire season is over and the school reports which players used up elligiblity. If a kid used up a year of elligiblity he lable an elliglble player( by the NCAA), if he did not he is labled a non-elligle player (by the NCAA) and a redshirt by the University and by the fans. Right now the NCAA cares more about the 4 in 5 concept when it comes to elligiblity than any thing else. If you played in a game you lost one of your 4 years, of elligiblity, if you did not you used one of your 5 consecutive years.

To say someone burned his red shirt year is a double negitive. I did not, not use a year of elligiblity.

I have heard some one refer to a player as having burned his/her redshirt year, when they were "pulled of there redshirt" to play in a game(s) late in the season. What they really has happened though is that the player has burned a year of "elligiblity" not redshirt.

Clear as mud. Redshirt is just a term meaning they did not use up elligiblity. The NCAA does not care how many years you do not use elligiblity, they only care about how many you do!

Now ............. There are a handful of ways to apply for a "hardship" to either extend the 5 years to 6, or to have a year of elligiblity not charged / counted against a player, essential reclaim a year of elligiblity, but I am not going their.

This is where I get confused.

I know there are some new rules as far as DI FB transfers with the new rules that say no more 1 year wonders and some rule that the five years can be extended if a transfer athlete will graduate and meets the requirements for post-grad, etc.

My immediate question goes back to Lex Hilliards situation( and the previously mentioned Ron Muri situation) . Senior- never redshirted- hurt pre-season & takes a redshirt so is eligible next year. Several posters on egriz at the time said that if he was still determined 'unhealed' next year that he could seek a 'medical' since he'd never had one. My interpretation is that he plays next year or he is done.

twentythreeOh4 · Post by **twentythreeOh4** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:30 pm

GOKATS wrote:
HelenaCat95 wrote:Lex Hilliard is the perfect example.
He did not redshirt his freshman year. He got hurt prior to his senior year/4th year of eligibility. He is redshirting this year and will play next year.....his 5th year to play 4.
Not exactly the perfect example, because if Lex had redshirted earlier, he was still eligible for a medical redshirt this year because he was injured prior to the start of the season, which must be approved by the NCAA .

Still boils down to 4 years out of 5.

Nope, not true. If Lex had red-shirted his freshman year he would have lost his senior year. The NCAA only grants a 6th year to players who miss TWO years due to injury. Look at Griz BB center John Seyfert just last year. He was injured before the season began (played in ZERO games ) he missed his entire senior season. He did not get a medical red shirt because he already used his red-shirt when he transfered.

Robcat · Post by **Robcat** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:48 pm

One of the posters stated that you could get a redshirt + a medical redshirt. I had a disscussion with Kramer about this very same scenairo. The ONLY way you can get 2 redshirts is they BOTH have to be medical redshirts. Not a developmental redshirt and a medical redshirt.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:10 am

Robcat wrote:One of the posters stated that you could get a redshirt + a medical redshirt. I had a disscussion with Kramer about this very same scenairo. The ONLY way you can get 2 redshirts is they BOTH have to be medical redshirts. Not a developmental redshirt and a medical redshirt.

What about a Redshirt and a Hardship one? I know Laurence Figueroa got something (hardship or medical) when he was injured in '04, but then again, he may not have used his Redshirt at the JC he went to.

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:21 am

I don't know what the exact rule is but I do no that special circumstances have been granted. Ron Powlus, the Notre Dame QB in the mid 90's was one of these cases. I don't recall the exact situation but I know that there was something very unusual with his case.

LTown Cat · Post by **LTown Cat** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:39 pm

bcats wrote:I don't know what the exact rule is but I do no that special circumstances have been granted. Ron Powlus, the Notre Dame QB in the mid 90's was one of these cases. I don't recall the exact situation but I know that there was something very unusual with his case.

Who was the QB for Ohio State---maybe Krenzel. Wasn't he a 6 year guy?

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:14 pm

I have a headache