Tap 'er Light on JJ

[Hell's Bells]

two worsds...Missoula Jury

[MSUcantouchus]

What ever happened with the 4 football players accused of a gang rape. That conveniently go away?

[Grizlaw]

two worsds...Missoula Jury

Assuming you actually read something about the evidence that was presented during the case, Hells - do you honestly think any jury, in any town, would have convicted JJ?

I don't.

[Grizlaw]

What ever happened with the 4 football players accused of a gang rape. That conveniently go away?

The Missoula county attorney found insufficient evidence to prosecute (based partly on the statement of the female friend of the alleged victim, who was present during the evening of the alleged crime, and who testified that in her view, the act was consensual).

Of course, I'm answering the question as if you were looking for an actual answer, which of course, you weren't.

[TomCat88]

two worsds...Missoula Jury

Assuming you actually read something about the evidence that was presented during the case, Hells - do you honestly think any jury, in any town, would have convicted JJ?

I don't.

I'm assuming this is HB's idea of ribbing Griz fans, but, like I've been saying for months, this isn't something to give Griz fans a hard time over. If you're a Cat fan and you have a serious question or comment just make it in a polite manner.

[TomCat88]

What ever happened with the 4 football players accused of a gang rape. That conveniently go away?

The Missoula county attorney found insufficient evidence to prosecute (based partly on the statement of the female friend of the alleged victim, who was present during the evening of the alleged crime, and who testified that in her view, the act was consensual).

Of course, I'm answering the question as if you were looking for an actual answer, which of course, you weren't.

I'm not sure where MSUcantouchus is going with this question. I believe the girl that made this accusation is the same one that sent the initial complaint to the DOJ, which may have played a role in starting their investiagion. I'm not positive on that. If so, then he could be implying that this is still open in terms of the DOJ investigation.

[Plainiac]

what a bunch of crap. Less than a year ago it looked like um was gonna get hammered into the last century for rape scandals, booster issues etc. The way things seem to be going now the ncaa will probably give them extra schollies, extra practice time and a three year free pass into the playoffs. As a huge Cat fan, the best i'm hoping for at this point is that Pat Williams gets appointed to the BOR. That would at least feel like a victory over these griz bastards. They seem to have re-found their teflon coating...drats!

[TomCat88]

what a bunch of crap. Less than a year ago it looked like um was gonna get hammered into the last century for rape scandals, booster issues etc. The way things seem to be going now the ncaa will probably give them extra schollies, extra practice time and a three year free pass into the playoffs. As a huge Cat fan, the best i'm hoping for at this point is that Pat Williams gets appointed to the BOR. That would at least feel like a victory over these griz bastards. They seem to have re-found their teflon coating...drats!

Is your last name Cheswick or Martini or Harding or something like that? I'm guessing Harding.

[91catAlum]

I was fine with the article until the last 2 sentences. Foley basically says that if JJ did indeed commit rape, he hopes karma gets him - but not until JJ throws 45 TDs and wins the natty next season.

Even if he did it, Bill? Thats pretty damn disgusting. I'm guessing Jane Doe isn't your little sister.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

[Grizlaw]

I'm assuming this is HB's idea of ribbing Griz fans, but, like I've been saying for months, this isn't something to give Griz fans a hard time over. If you're a Cat fan and you have a serious question or comment just make it in a polite manner.

For what it's worth, HB and I know each other pretty well in real life. I know he didn't mean anything nasty by his comment (nor did I with my response).

But, I also know there are Cat fans who truly do feel this way, so I thought my point had to be made.

[CatBlitz]

I was fine with the article until the last 2 sentences. Foley basically says that if JJ did indeed commit rape, he hopes karma gets him - but not until JJ throws 45 TDs and wins the natty next season.

Even if he did it, Bill? Thats pretty damn disgusting. I'm guessing Jane Doe isn't your little sister.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

I would tend to agree. That makes the article lose a lot of luster and credibility.

[catatac]

While I might not agree with each of Foley's individual steps of logic (and despite having been friends with him for a long time, I honestly do not know if it's true that he was ever a Cat fan), I do think the points he makes are valid, at least in a big picture way.

His basic points are:

1. Florio's coverage of the trial was biased (I agree).

2. JJ should not have been charged (I don't know if I agree, but I do think the evidence against him was weak, and that the scrutiny UM and the county attorney are under may have contributed to the decision to prosecute him).

3. UM's football team has been unfairly dragged through the mud. I think the jury is still out on that. As of now, though, we appear to only have one football player who has actually been determined to have been guilty of rape, and he was promptly dismissed from the team as soon as his guilt was clear. If, when the dust has cleared, Donaldson is still the only Griz player who is actually guilty of rape, then I might argue that all of the comparisons to Penn State that we received in the national media were a bit unfair.

4. Based on all of the above, we should all cheer for the Griz. Well, duh.

For your number 3 there... I don't know if the jury is still out on that one. I disagree that the UM football team has been UNFAIRLY dragged through the mud. Ya, it doesn't look like there's a huge rape scandal going on with half the team out there committing rape, but you definitely have had way more player issues than what should be acceptable. I think MD is doing a great job of getting things back on track but the number of player issues\arrests at UM over the past 5 years, and the coaching and administration seemingly not doing enough about it, was unacceptable. In the long run it's probably a good thing that you've been draged through the mud. Overall it was good for MSU when it happened way back when.

[lutecat]

While I might not agree with each of Foley's individual steps of logic (and despite having been friends with him for a long time, I honestly do not know if it's true that he was ever a Cat fan), I do think the points he makes are valid, at least in a big picture way.

His basic points are:

1. Florio's coverage of the trial was biased (I agree).

2. JJ should not have been charged (I don't know if I agree, but I do think the evidence against him was weak, and that the scrutiny UM and the county attorney are under may have contributed to the decision to prosecute him).

3. UM's football team has been unfairly dragged through the mud. I think the jury is still out on that. As of now, though, we appear to only have one football player who has actually been determined to have been guilty of rape, and he was promptly dismissed from the team as soon as his guilt was clear. If, when the dust has cleared, Donaldson is still the only Griz player who is actually guilty of rape, then I might argue that all of the comparisons to Penn State that we received in the national media were a bit unfair.

4. Based on all of the above, we should all cheer for the Griz. Well, duh.

For your number 3 there... I don't know if the jury is still out on that one. I disagree that the UM football team has been UNFAIRLY dragged through the mud. Ya, it doesn't look like there's a huge rape scandal going on with half the team out there committing rape, but you definitely have had way more player issues than what should be acceptable. I think MD is doing a great job of getting things back on track but the number of player issues\arrests at UM over the past 5 years, and the coaching and administration seemingly not doing enough about it, was unacceptable. In the long run it's probably a good thing that you've been draged through the mud. Overall it was good for MSU when it happened way back when.

Agree 100%. I would wager quite a bit that the average griz fan thinks Tru was a good guy. He never formally got in trouble for anything...until after the season. How many chances did he get? 3? Alot of griz fans seem to forget the things like this. They focus on the fact that one person was convicted/plead quilty of rape, so everythings ok. I'll grant you, RapeU is unfair, but lets not forget about Tru, and Kemp, and Tru before that, and Tru before that, and Nate MT, and...and..and...All colleges have issues, but when the mantra of the school was anything short of a conviction, you're good to go, that's not good.

[[cat_bracket]]

This point seems to have gotten lost in all the JJ trial hub-bub.

The DOJ is investigating UM for how it handles sexual assault claims. This includes the Saudi student that left the country, the student that was assaulted outside on campus, the two students that claimed they were drugged and assaulted by two football players (they didn't press charges), the Johnson-Doe case (went to trial), and the woman that claimed she was drugged and assaulted by four football players (investigation halted by MPD). The latter is the one that contacted DOJ. Until the DOJ gives its report, I would say this isn't over. They could still find that JJ case wasn't handled properly. It isn't only about guilty-not guilty, it's about how the claims were processed. Trials by Missoula County involving UM students and UM Honor Court findings aren't the entire scope of the DOJ investigation and may not constitute a very large percentage of what they're looking at.

[Grizlaw]

For your number 3 there... I don't know if the jury is still out on that one. I disagree that the UM football team has been UNFAIRLY dragged through the mud. Ya, it doesn't look like there's a huge rape scandal going on with half the team out there committing rape, but you definitely have had way more player issues than what should be acceptable. I think MD is doing a great job of getting things back on track but the number of player issues\arrests at UM over the past 5 years, and the coaching and administration seemingly not doing enough about it, was unacceptable. In the long run it's probably a good thing that you've been draged through the mud. Overall it was good for MSU when it happened way back when.

I think you're making more out of my post than is actually there. First -- I'm only talking about the attention the Griz have received for sex crimes here; I'm not talking about all of the loud parties / assaults / other petty crimes that players have been getting arrested for. I agree that all of those things are problematic, but they're not the reason why the NYT, the WSJ, ESPN, the Huffington Post, Jezebel, etc. have been writing about us for the past year. When I say UM has been "dragged through the mud," I'm only talking about the negative publicity relating to sex crimes.

With that in mind -- when I say "the jury is still out," I mean exactly that. I don't mean UM is innocent of any wrongdoing; I mean we don't know yet.

What we know is that UM has one former player who is guilty of rape, and one current player who is not guilty. The DOJ and DOE are reviewing several other cases, and we'll find out at some point what the results of their investigations are. They may conclude that those cases were mis-handled, or not. They may also conclude that other cases (not involving football players) were mis-handled. At the end of the day, though, if they do not find real evidence of wrongdoing at UM (or if there is wrongdoing, but not involving the football team), then I think we should be able to agree, at that point, that UM's football team was probably undeserving of all of the attention it received regarding sex crimes.

In other words...the jury is still out.

[catatac]

Agree - specifically for how they're handling sex crimes the jury is still out. I was just talking generally about the program problems the past few years, UM Football deserved to get dragged through the mud and it's probably going to be good for the program in the long run that all the investigations are going on and there will be no stones un-turned. Pat Williams was right. These are just my opinions of course.

[Hell's Bells]

two worsds...Missoula Jury

Assuming you actually read something about the evidence that was presented during the case, Hells - do you honestly think any jury, in any town, would have convicted JJ?

I don't.

to soon for a joke...

[TomCat88]

I'm assuming this is HB's idea of ribbing Griz fans, but, like I've been saying for months, this isn't something to give Griz fans a hard time over. If you're a Cat fan and you have a serious question or comment just make it in a polite manner.

For what it's worth, HB and I know each other pretty well in real life. I know he didn't mean anything nasty by his comment (nor did I with my response).

But, I also know there are Cat fans who truly do feel this way, so I thought my point had to be made.

Thanks for letting me know you two are friends. Yes, there are some Cat fans that are like this, so like you I was just making a point that most aren't that way.

[PapaG]

No case is exactly like OJ's. To the relevant point, I also still have no idea if JJ crossed a criminal line that simply could not be proven to the legal standards necessary. I'm far more certain that OJ killed his wife. But I'm perfectly comfortable with the JJ verdict and hope he moves on with his life and is very successful. I just can't buy into the idea of him being a victim (or worthy of any special praise) as I think we all realize there's a chance that maybe he did commit a crime, so that's why I don't really understand the whole tone of the article.

Does the Duke lacrosse case prove JJ is the victim of a political witch hunt?[/quote}


There was literally no physical evidence in the Duke case, let alone the accused admitting to having sex with Crystal Mangum. Mike Nifong maliciously prosecuted the Duke players for political reasons. Three white Dookies "rape" a "young black mother" in a city that is predominantly black, outside of the university.

What is the political benefit to a "witch hunt" involving the star QB, who is white, in a city that is 95% white, and 99% full of Grizzly fans?

[tampa_griz]

Does the Duke lacrosse case prove JJ is the victim of a political witch hunt?

There was literally no physical evidence in the Duke case, let alone the accused admitting to having sex with Crystal Mangum. Mike Nifong maliciously prosecuted the Duke players for political reasons. Three white Dookies "rape" a "young black mother" in a city that is predominantly black, outside of the university.

What is the political benefit to a "witch hunt" involving the star QB, who is white, in a city that is 95% white, and 99% full of Grizzly fans?

There are way many more overlaps between the Duke Lacrosse scandal and JJ's case than OJ's. Rodney King wasn't from Missoula and to my knowledge was never rouged up by Missoula law enforcement. I think you have him confused with Trumaine Johnson. But Fred Van Valkenburg is a prosecutor who, very similar to Nifong, needed some political cover and found a convenient target. During "deliberations" the jury ate lunch, discussed and reviewed the cake at Bernice's Bakery, and then took about three minutes to declare JJ innocent. In criminal trials, that's an absolute beat-down.