If you need a laugh.....

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:21 pm

If by star you mean "caught from behind a lot" then yes, you are correct.

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:39 pm

If he's getting caught from behind a lot, that would mean he's already well into the secondary, 12 to 15 yards down-field. I'll take it all day, personally. But that's just me. I like to see the Griz win football games.

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:49 pm

I don't see what people see in him, if I am wrong I have always been man enough to admit it publically.

To me TBF is Severin Campbell. You look at them both and think damn I bet that guy can play some football and then you watch them play like they don't want to hurt anyone.

Whatever

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:25 pm

Guy rushes for 292 yards in 3 playoff games as a RS freshman. Hard to have any qualms about that. He averaged 5.5 yds per carry during those games. No issues there. He started only 4 games but rushed for over 100 yards 3 times.

Solid numbers for anyone, let alone a freshman who was (at best) 5th on the depth chart at the beginning of the season.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:53 pm

AlphaGriz1 wrote:If we are combining both teams RB's I would take:

1. Lex
2. Coleman
3. Mason
4. Bradshaw
5. Utterback
6. Taito
7. TBF

And seventh is a generous 7th for TBF

Man are you lost on this one alpha. You put TBF behind Utterback and Taito, that is ridiculous. TBF is a stud...ask Lex, or any of the other backs for that matter. Ask the previous or current RB coach. The kid can play. Sure opinions vary, but it is hard to ignore what I've seen watching him. I saw it in him the first day I saw him practice prior to screwing up his knee. We'll see, but the kid knows how to move, and is not easy to bring down.

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:59 pm

I think Alpha had been drinking when he posted that. I know this: in three years, any posts questioning TBF's abilities will look awefully silly.

BWahlberg · Post by **BWahlberg** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:46 pm

JahGriz wrote:Alpha, TBF is far better than you give credit for. Did you watch him step up last season? He is very hard to bring down. Sure he does need to block better. But the kid is a good back with a lot of skill both running and catching. The blocking will come I hope. But he is very smart, hell get it. Lex, TBF, Coleman, and Bradshaw all belong at this level or higher. Not sure if any other RB down the list will ever be starting material, but I haven't had a chance to watch much practice this year either.

Griz WR aren't all world. If Chambers could get his head on straight and his health he would be very good. But you are selling EA short to call him average, he has just about everything but breakaway speed. Marianni is a stud too, quite fast, and good hands, and a feel for the position. I thought it was disgusting that he didn't see the field last year at WR. He is light years better than Troxel will ever be, no offense to MT. Griz are experienced and tough at WR, and do have a couple guys who have it.

I'll back Alpha up on the TBF statment, after today's practice I'd put him behind Andrew Schmidt as well, he can't catch, he can't block, he's a shifty runner but really needs to work on catching and picking up blitzes

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:22 pm

Re/Max Griz wrote:
JahGriz wrote:Alpha, TBF is far better than you give credit for. Did you watch him step up last season? He is very hard to bring down. Sure he does need to block better. But the kid is a good back with a lot of skill both running and catching. The blocking will come I hope. But he is very smart, hell get it. Lex, TBF, Coleman, and Bradshaw all belong at this level or higher. Not sure if any other RB down the list will ever be starting material, but I haven't had a chance to watch much practice this year either.

Griz WR aren't all world. If Chambers could get his head on straight and his health he would be very good. But you are selling EA short to call him average, he has just about everything but breakaway speed. Marianni is a stud too, quite fast, and good hands, and a feel for the position. I thought it was disgusting that he didn't see the field last year at WR. He is light years better than Troxel will ever be, no offense to MT. Griz are experienced and tough at WR, and do have a couple guys who have it.
I'll back Alpha up on the TBF statment, after today's practice I'd put him behind Andrew Schmidt as well, he can't catch, he can't block, he's a shifty runner but really needs to work on catching and picking up blitzes

Well, that's your sugar coated opinion, we'll have to wait to see what Ronblos opinion is.

Sorry, Remax, you seem pretty heads up on all the crapolla that goes on.

BWahlberg · Post by **BWahlberg** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:30 pm

GOKATS wrote:
Re/Max Griz wrote:
JahGriz wrote:Alpha, TBF is far better than you give credit for. Did you watch him step up last season? He is very hard to bring down. Sure he does need to block better. But the kid is a good back with a lot of skill both running and catching. The blocking will come I hope. But he is very smart, hell get it. Lex, TBF, Coleman, and Bradshaw all belong at this level or higher. Not sure if any other RB down the list will ever be starting material, but I haven't had a chance to watch much practice this year either.

Griz WR aren't all world. If Chambers could get his head on straight and his health he would be very good. But you are selling EA short to call him average, he has just about everything but breakaway speed. Marianni is a stud too, quite fast, and good hands, and a feel for the position. I thought it was disgusting that he didn't see the field last year at WR. He is light years better than Troxel will ever be, no offense to MT. Griz are experienced and tough at WR, and do have a couple guys who have it.
I'll back Alpha up on the TBF statment, after today's practice I'd put him behind Andrew Schmidt as well, he can't catch, he can't block, he's a shifty runner but really needs to work on catching and picking up blitzes
Well, that's your sugar coated opinion, we'll have to wait to see what Ronblos opinion is.

Sorry, Remax, you seem pretty heads up on all the crapolla that goes on.

Ha, yeah, its what I've seen. I'll give TBF props for what he accomplished last year, how he emerged and helped push this team through the playoffs. His effort and hard work is great, but that doesn't make him an automatic "stud" RB. I think he will become one maybe even next year, but he's got a ways to go to become the #1 RB.

And he's going to be behind Greg Coleman next year, presumably, so he'll be waiting until 2009 to get a real shot at being #1.

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:41 pm

Like I said earlier, if i am wrong I will admit it. I just don't see the guy being a very polished all around back.

GinW I don't know your football background but I am willing to say that if you never even tried to block a DE coming at the QB you would be twice as good as TBF. He is the worst pass protecting back I have seen in quite awhile. I will give you shifty, but he isn't a game breaker IMO and his cons outweigh his pros.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:41 am

JahGriz wrote:I'm sure this guys provides a tad of confidence in one position, along with about 3 other guys helping out at the same position.

http://www.egriz.com/GrizBoard/topic25043.php

The article about Lex Hilliard was actually kinda cool, but after reading the “if you can shake a Shepard, you can shake anybody.” and the “If you can make cuts running downhill, you can make cuts on a football field.” quotes, I couldn't help thinking of a "Dodgeball" quote:

"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!"

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:19 pm

TBF did a great job last year, and didn't miss too many blocking assignments. Granted, I didn't watch a lot of practice this pre-season, but TBF was a all purpose back in H.S. and did catch a lot of balls.

I've also seen him catch in practice and he seemed to have pretty soft hands, though I don't doubt he could have had an off day or two.

The fact remains, he had the most yards per carry of any back last year. He had a lot of broken tackles and did a great job of finding holes to run to/thru.

To say he "can't catch" or "can't block" is obserd, and a terrible generalization, that just flat isn't accurate. Then you guys throw out names of other backs who are supposedly better than him. Yet most of those backs have yet to do as much as TBF did for the Griz last year. You put Schmidt in front of TBF re-max? Now Schmidt has gotten the most out of what ability he has, but he isn't the athlete TBF is, nor is he the RB TBF is. I like Andrew, hes a good kid, and has surprised me.

TBF didn't just get lucky last year, he had over 100 yards in 3 games, and was the only back to get anything going against UMass. Stats don't tell everything, but the combination of his stats, most yards per carry, and actually seeing how he moved, broke tackles, and fought, I don't know how people can come down so hard on him.

Whatever, to each their own. I just don't get it, unless some how TBF lost a bunch of his talent between the last game last year and practices this season.

meow-meow · Post by **meow-meow** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:47 pm

grizzh8r wrote:
JahGriz wrote:I'm sure this guys provides a tad of confidence in one position, along with about 3 other guys helping out at the same position.

http://www.egriz.com/GrizBoard/topic25043.php
The article about Lex Hilliard was actually kinda cool, but after reading the “if you can shake a Shepard, you can shake anybody.” and the “If you can make cuts running downhill, you can make cuts on a football field.” quotes, I couldn't help thinking of a "Dodgeball" quote:

"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!"

All I can think about now is a dude named "Elvis" throwing wrenches at Lex while he's being chased by a german shephard. hahahaha. On a serious note though, Lex is a stud glad to hear he's healthy again. Can't wait for Daly vs. Hilliard.

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:08 pm

JahGriz wrote:TBF did a great job last year, and didn't miss too many blocking assignments. Granted, I didn't watch a lot of practice this pre-season, but TBF was a all purpose back in H.S. and did catch a lot of balls.

I've also seen him catch in practice and he seemed to have pretty soft hands, though I don't doubt he could have had an off day or two.

The fact remains, he had the most yards per carry of any back last year. He had a lot of broken tackles and did a great job of finding holes to run to/thru.

To say he "can't catch" or "can't block" is obserd, and a terrible generalization, that just flat isn't accurate. Then you guys throw out names of other backs who are supposedly better than him. Yet most of those backs have yet to do as much as TBF did for the Griz last year. You put Schmidt in front of TBF re-max? Now Schmidt has gotten the most out of what ability he has, but he isn't the athlete TBF is, nor is he the RB TBF is. I like Andrew, hes a good kid, and has surprised me.

TBF didn't just get lucky last year, he had over 100 yards in 3 games, and was the only back to get anything going against UMass. Stats don't tell everything, but the combination of his stats, most yards per carry, and actually seeing how he moved, broke tackles, and fought, I don't know how people can come down so hard on him.

Whatever, to each their own. I just don't get it, unless some how TBF lost a bunch of his talent between the last game last year and practices this season.

TBF is the worst pass blocker I have ever seen PERIOD.

Jah if you think he does this well then I will not call you the name I am thinking of. He gets worked time and time again in games and in practice. The drill in practice they run where a coach plays the QB and the RB is supposed to protect him until the whistle blows, eats him up everytime. He is owned by everyone that rushes at him Utterback and Joyce absolutely blow him up.

You and I will never see the same on this one.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:36 am

I admit he's weak in pass pro. But he not at the level of "CAN'T Block, CAN'T Catch". And there is no arguing that he does some nice things when he has the ball.
He need to have the past RB coach, Killer, who knows a lot about OL and blocking, and did a great job teaching Green, Lex, and Brady Green pass protection.

Plus, it is realitively easy to get better at blocking and pass pro, so he can improve, and will. But it's not so easy to learn how to become a better runner. Most of running the ball is athletic ability, and having good field vision. It comes second nature. Blocking takes a lot more work. Lets see how he does against other teams, he wasn't bad last year.

We can agree to disagree, I'm not a sugar coater. In fact I've got differing opions than most regarding some other players, and have had those opinions since early on.

Doesn't matter much this year, unless someone gets hurt, because Lex, and Coleman will be tearing it up. Especially Lex...can't wait to see him get the ball and mow someone down.

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:41 am

Thats cool Jah, and I think your right when you say he has some nice running skills. I just don't get lathered up masterbating over him like he is the greatest back we have ever had.

He is very incomplete and IMO I would rather have a back that is a little more complete than a guy that only has speed. Defenses can figure out what your running if you have a guy like that.

We are cool.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:20 pm

Ha ha, you have a way with words Alpha. Being that I was an RB and CB, and loved the RB position, I like guys with that little extra "it" when running the ball. TBF has something.

I'm baffled that he is such a weak blocker. He's athletic, played all sorts of positions in H.S., he is very smart, I'm told both football and school smarts. He's had some great mentors in Lex, Brady Green, etc.

There is an art to blocking from the RB position, but experience for those who aren't naturals, is crutial. I think the Jury is out on how well he'll block this season. Sure practice is a pretty darn good indicator, but playing against other opponents who don't know your tendencies, could help get him on the right track.

I just like the way he runs, and his field vision, for finding holes, and making that one or two cuts and getting up field...He's got some power and fight in him.

You are absolutely correct in wanting a complete back. I'm saving any negative judgements until I get a look at TBF in some live action this season.

I'm not one to just blindly think a guy is stud, simply because he puts on a Griz uni. I was one of only a few saying Troxel didn't have the speed to be a huge threat at WR, and that his overall package might be more fitting for a step below I-AA. I hear he is making progress, but IMO, as I've said long ago, Marianni should be ahead of him, and looks more like he belongs.

Not to trash on Troxel, he was something in H.S. and is a good athlete in general terms, just wanted to relay and example proving I'm not one to call anyone in a Griz uni, and automatic playmaking stud.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:25 pm

Re/Max Griz wrote:
JahGriz wrote:Alpha, TBF is far better than you give credit for. Did you watch him step up last season? He is very hard to bring down. Sure he does need to block better. But the kid is a good back with a lot of skill both running and catching. The blocking will come I hope. But he is very smart, hell get it. Lex, TBF, Coleman, and Bradshaw all belong at this level or higher. Not sure if any other RB down the list will ever be starting material, but I haven't had a chance to watch much practice this year either.

Griz WR aren't all world. If Chambers could get his head on straight and his health he would be very good. But you are selling EA short to call him average, he has just about everything but breakaway speed. Marianni is a stud too, quite fast, and good hands, and a feel for the position. I thought it was disgusting that he didn't see the field last year at WR. He is light years better than Troxel will ever be, no offense to MT. Griz are experienced and tough at WR, and do have a couple guys who have it.
I'll back Alpha up on the TBF statment, after today's practice I'd put him behind Andrew Schmidt as well, he can't catch, he can't block, he's a shifty runner but really needs to work on catching and picking up blitzes

Yep there is a lot more to just running to be a stud RB if you want to have a balance offense. It takes time though but I think TBF is going to be a good one in the near future.