Tribe not going to settle, recommend new Fighting Sioux name

[College Recruiter]

but rather that this is a matter of a people's culture and heritage being misrepresented by a caricature mascot.

You mean this horrible, awful, and terribly "cartoonish" and "caricature" mascot????:



What a proud and handsome and realistic rendition of the "Fighting Sioux". We all would wish we were so finely portrayed by those that want to honor us.

But it is cool...for those that want to ethnically cleanse our country and our educational system of the proud history and culture of the Sioux.

No skin off my nose. It is just very sad.

Something tells me there are other "caricatures" that might be worth your effort other than this one.

[SonomaCat]

The primary battleground for name changing in the Midwest is the University of North Dakota, where the sports teams proudly call themselves the Fighting Sioux. Unfortunately, they're also a college, full of college students who wear shirts to games depicting scenes like an obese cartoon man with long braided hair, a headdress and buggy eyes screwing a bison from behind, both tongues waggling. The caption reads, "Buck the Bison Under." Some of rival school NDSU's game-day apparel has been even worse.

http://media.www.volanteonline.com/medi ... 7826.shtml

Surely but one example among thousands.

Yeah, it's shocking that a group of people would not want their culture represented by others in such a way.

[SonomaCat]

More insight to chew on:

The University of North Dakota (UND) logo & Nickname

This issue will not go away. It has been on the scene at UND since the late 1980’s and throughout the 1990’s, when students and faculty first brought this specific matter forward. Specifically, it involves the terminology “Fighting Sioux” and the moniker which engenders prejudicial and racist remarks, graffiti, and negative behavior. This is degrading to society and particularly stereotypes American Indians—the tribe being depicted and others, as well.

I am an alumnus of UND who does not believe that the logo and the terminology honor me or my people, the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota. Sioux of course is a modified French word combined with a possible Ojibwa word that ends up meaning “snake or little snake,” or “cutthroat.” Alone, it is not a word in any language, nor does it exist in the Lakota or other dialects of our language. Unfortunately, the U. S. Government has used it in various official references, documents, treaties and law.

But it is the combined use of “Fighting Sioux” along with the graphic moniker, which when used together at sporting events has promoted inappropriate, negative, racist behavior and obscene graphics and remarks. In some cases, it has led to threats and harassment of American Indians and others at sporting events and in everyday life at UND.

I should add that the term Lakota is quite the opposite of Sioux. It means a “friend or ally” and refers to “The People.” This is who we are, not a stereotype called the “Fighting Sioux.” We are human beings who have had to fight for our rights.

The continued UND use is derogatory, at minimum. News reports records how offensive this usage is in the not so distant past in games with the NDSU Bison.

Moreover, the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools accrediting site evaluation team has announced this past week, October 22, 2003, the recommendation that UND reconsider its use of “Fighting Sioux” nickname and the Indian-head logo.

Cited was the fact that “this issue diminishes the good stature” of UND. Even though it is now the North Dakota State Board of Education which decided that UND would continue the use of the name and logo, perhaps this will strike lightning in the right places. It is at least a wake-up call from the real world!

Mascots and the dangers of such usage

Why be upset about the use of tribal mascots? To me and many other American Indian and Alaska Natives, mascots are a form of cultural violence. The use of tribal mascots is a form of racism that according to Dr. Cornel Pewewardy, Professor of Teaching and Leadership at the University of Kansas, “accepts dominant white norms and privileges.”

The use of mascots does many things, almost all of them harmful to indigenous people.

Some feel shame, as I will discuss later, about who they are as a person, and as a cultural being. Nothing in our culture suggests that we somehow should feel honored because we are seemingly displayed as a reference to a sports activity. We did not ask that our image be put on a football helmet or on the structure of a hockey arena. It has been done at the behest—demand—of moneyed interests!

The use of such images about us depicts us as being a fantasy to many Americans—eighteenth and nineteenth century images, at best. We are real, living human beings. We are not manufactured images, and we are not fantasies. We are not myths as some have portrayed us in history books and novels. We are not Leprechauns as in the case of the mascot for the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame or like the Giants of football and baseball. We are not animals, like the Orioles, or Bears, or Cardinals, or Panthers. We are not historically, glorified people like the Vikings or the Trojans or even the more recent historical figures such as the 49ers. No team in the U. S. is called the Cleveland Whiteboys, or the Atlanta Negroes, or the New York Jews. So why is calling a team—from nation’s capitol, no less—the Washington Redskins considered acceptable. In many cases, it is about monetary gain.

Frankly, if the use of mascots engenders negative behavior that is offensive or does harm to even one human being, it is wrong—morally and ethically, at minimum. It is not acceptable, not ever!

As and educator, I see how these false images demean and hurt the self-image of our Native American Indian students, and the perception they have of themselves. Many Indian people simply tune this argument out in order to avoid any feelings of dismay, thanking that nothing can be done to solve the problem. Too often, we remain products of colonial subjugation and we have not thrown off those chains. Yet, we know we can create and make change. Past mind sets can be challenged and can be changed. Understanding history, and how prejudice, bias and how power works is necessary.

I will spend some time talking to you about one recent event and how we worked to make some changes within a 48 hour period of time.

http://www.ndhrc.org/Events/2003%20NDHR ... ddress.htm

[Au Blue]

Just for thought, here's a list of other (non-Indian) mascot names that the NCAA and NAIA should list as objectionable because they could offend a certain subset of our populous.

Quakers - University of Pennsylvania
Lumberjacks - Nothern Arizona
Mountaineers - Appalachian State
Vixens - Sweet Briar College
Vikings - Portland State (offensive to my Norwegian ancestors)
Saints - Carroll College (and others)
Spartans - Michigan State (and others)
Pirates - Seton Hall and East Carolina University
49ers - Long Beach State
(or Miners or Prospectors)
Commodores - Vanderbilt
Fighting Irish - Notre Dame
Crusaders - Valparaiso

should I go on?

[College Recruiter]

I am chewing away......and when chewing on the icey reality of the PC culture.....my teeth hurt so bad!!!!!!!!

*****************************************

New police mascot more 'diverse' A police mascot criticised for being too male and white will be replaced by more "ethnically diverse" models.
PSCO Steve was created by the Metropolitan Police to visit primary schools but drew criticism for failing to represent London's communities.

The Met will spend £15,000 in making three new characters.

The new costumes, expected to be ready early next year, include a woman PCSO, named Sunita, and a man and a woman police constable.

In a written response to questions from the London Assembly, Sir Ian Blair said: "These characters will be more representative of London's population and the diverse range of police personnel."


We seem to be taking the issue to the extreme, and pandering to every whim and gripe
Pc Geoff Parker

The original PCSO Steve costume was based on real-life Sutton borough police community support officer Stephen King.

Paid for by a £1,000 sponsorship deal with a local plumbing firm, the character proved a huge hit at schools and other public events.

In a letter to police in-house magazine The Job published today, one officer said the row could damage relations between the police and the public.

Pc Geoff Parker, who works in Islington, said: "One of the things that is damaging our job and our relations with the community is this constant overbearing political correctness.

"We seem to be taking the issue to the extreme, and pandering to every whim and gripe. We need to take a sensible approach to this and stop over-reacting."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/e ... 101942.stm

Published: 2007/11/19 13:58:48 GMT


The original mascot was based on a real officer

[tampa_griz]

Just for thought, here's a list of other (non-Indian) mascot names that the NCAA and NAIA should list as objectionable because they could offend a certain subset of our populous.

Quakers - University of Pennsylvania
Lumberjacks - Nothern Arizona
Mountaineers - Appalachian State
Vixens - Sweet Briar College
Vikings - Portland State (offensive to my Norwegian ancestors)
Saints - Carroll College (and others)
Spartans - Michigan State (and others)
Pirates - Seton Hall and East Carolina University
49ers - Long Beach State
(or Miners or Prospectors)
Commodores - Vanderbilt
Fighting Irish - Notre Dame
Crusaders - Valparaiso

should I go on?

The big difference there is that not one of those populations have a recent history of victimization in America to any real extent (with the small exception maybe of the Irish).

[College Recruiter]

but of course the English police mascot dude does not count...cuz he is just a dumb white guy.

DOH>>>>>>>>

[College Recruiter]

this one


or this one


but who am I?? Some putz white dude........

[College Recruiter]

victimization in America

Thats is so vogue these days!

[tampa_griz]

victimization in America

Thats is so vogue these days!

Do you honestly think it's a coincidence that Native Americans and blacks have it harder today because of the extremely disturbing treatment they received here? Do you find it hard to imagine that a class of people who had a 400-year head start are doing better? Do you feel better to say "play me a violin" toward a race of people that were murdered and butchered beyond comprehension?

Just because you were yanked out of a white snatch doesn't give you the right to look down your nose at a group of people who have a history of serious injustice handed to them.

[Au Blue]

Just for thought, here's a list of other (non-Indian) mascot names that the NCAA and NAIA should list as objectionable because they could offend a certain subset of our populous.

Quakers - University of Pennsylvania
Lumberjacks - Nothern Arizona
Mountaineers - Appalachian State
Vixens - Sweet Briar College
Vikings - Portland State (offensive to my Norwegian ancestors)
Saints - Carroll College (and others)
Spartans - Michigan State (and others)
Pirates - Seton Hall and East Carolina University
49ers - Long Beach State
(or Miners or Prospectors)
Commodores - Vanderbilt
Fighting Irish - Notre Dame
Crusaders - Valparaiso

should I go on?

The big difference there is that not one of those populations have a recent history of victimization in America to any real extent (with the small exception maybe of the Irish).

so what? The issue is more about demoralizing a certain subculture of our population. Any person or group that feels offended by the "caricature"ization of the above-listed mascots should write to the NCAA and demand that these mascots stop being used immediately. We can't be more sensitive to one group than any other.

[tampa_griz]

Just for thought, here's a list of other (non-Indian) mascot names that the NCAA and NAIA should list as objectionable because they could offend a certain subset of our populous.

Quakers - University of Pennsylvania
Lumberjacks - Nothern Arizona
Mountaineers - Appalachian State
Vixens - Sweet Briar College
Vikings - Portland State (offensive to my Norwegian ancestors)
Saints - Carroll College (and others)
Spartans - Michigan State (and others)
Pirates - Seton Hall and East Carolina University
49ers - Long Beach State
(or Miners or Prospectors)
Commodores - Vanderbilt
Fighting Irish - Notre Dame
Crusaders - Valparaiso

should I go on?

The big difference there is that not one of those populations have a recent history of victimization in America to any real extent (with the small exception maybe of the Irish).

so what? The issue is more about demoralizing a certain subculture of our population. Any person or group that feels offended by the "caricature"ization of the above-listed mascots should write to the NCAA and demand that these mascots stop being used immediately. We can't be more sensitive to one group than any other.

What subculture of our population identifies themselves as pirates?

[Au Blue]

Just for thought, here's a list of other (non-Indian) mascot names that the NCAA and NAIA should list as objectionable because they could offend a certain subset of our populous.

Quakers - University of Pennsylvania
Lumberjacks - Nothern Arizona
Mountaineers - Appalachian State
Vixens - Sweet Briar College
Vikings - Portland State (offensive to my Norwegian ancestors)
Saints - Carroll College (and others)
Spartans - Michigan State (and others)
Pirates - Seton Hall and East Carolina University
49ers - Long Beach State
(or Miners or Prospectors)
Commodores - Vanderbilt
Fighting Irish - Notre Dame
Crusaders - Valparaiso

should I go on?

The big difference there is that not one of those populations have a recent history of victimization in America to any real extent (with the small exception maybe of the Irish).

so what? The issue is more about demoralizing a certain subculture of our population. Any person or group that feels offended by the "caricature"ization of the above-listed mascots should write to the NCAA and demand that these mascots stop being used immediately. We can't be more sensitive to one group than any other.

What subculture of our population identifies themselves as pirates?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... rates.html

I'm sure none of them wear goofy hats, wear a patch on one eye, and say "ARRRRRRRRR matey!" So, my semi-sarcastic point is that ANY subculture of people who is unfairly "caricature"-ized has a right to request that those mascots be banned. Silly, isn't it? But I honestly don't see why there's a difference. Do you suppose the New York Yankees or UNLV Runnin Rebels will be required to change their name any time soon? I doubt it.

Edit: I think there would be a bigger push by ALL tribes to force the Washington Redskins to drop their racial moniker than one tribe whom originally endorsed and blessed UND to use their name, albeit 100 years ago. C'mon.... Redskins? That is WAY more offensive than Fighting Sioux.

I didn't see these links posted previously so forgive me if they were. One is a letter from the UND President to the NCAA, and the other is a link that highlights the Native American artist that designed the current UND logo, and the artist's interpretation of what the feathers and colors represent.

http://www.universityrelations.und.edu/ ... _logo.html

http://www.und.edu/president/html/state ... etter.html

[griztasteslikechicken]

I think ALL the colleges in the country should change their mascot to the Grizzlies so we can all be a part of the "best University and fans" on the planet - at least that's what we keep hearing from UM fans on Bobcat Nation.

[BelgradeBobcat]

Isn't the whole idea of a mascot a little silly and childish anyway. Maybe we should do away with them all together. Lots of sports teams around the world (probably most of them) don't have officially adopted mascots. Some of them just evolve out of the club's name i.e. the English Football Club Arsenal is known as the Gunners, or Machester United is the Red Devils due to their primary shirt color.

[Au Blue]

Isn't the whole idea of a mascot a little silly and childish anyway. Maybe we should do away with them all together. Lots of sports teams around the world (probably most of them) don't have officially adopted mascots. Some of them just evolve out of the club's name i.e. the English Football Club Arsenal is known as the Gunners, or Machester United is the Red Devils due to their primary shirt color.

and do away with the two-time National Mascot of the year? How dare you....

[Siouxfan]

http://nc.startribune.com/blogs/kersten/?p=44



Those Fighting Sioux Nickname Lose Sight of Most Indian Views
November 13th, 2006 – 8:27 AM

Imagine being a fan of a football team known as the Flickertails — named for a small, wide-eyed ground squirrel. That’s what the University of North Dakota sports teams were called back in the 1920s. “It must have been hard to rally people around the Flickertails,” says Peter Johnson, UND’s associate director of university relations. UND’s archrival was the North Dakota State University Bison. A bison, of course, is a hulking creature that can squash a ground squirrel in one step.

In 1930, UND adopted a more formidable name — the Sioux — and its teams later became the Fighting Sioux. In 1968, says Johnson, the Grand Forks Herald reported that a delegation from the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation traveled to UND to “adopt” its president into the tribe and to give UND the right to use the name for its athletic teams.

In 2005, however, the NCAA banned schools from using nicknames and images it deems “hostile and abusive” in postseason play. UND was on the list. Last week, the school sought a temporary injunction, which was granted Saturday night, ahead of the upcoming Division II football playoffs. Without it, the UND team wouldn’t be able to host playoff games or use the nickname or logo on uniforms or in associated athletic program activities.

Never mind that a well-known Indian artist designed the UND logo of a proud Sioux warrior. Never mind that this image resembles the stately Indian on U.S. “buffalo” nickels, and on North Dakota’s highway patrol cars and highway signs. Never mind that sports teams choose names that symbolize what they honor — courage on the battlefield — not what they mock or despise. The forces of political correctness have embraced this latest victim-creating issue and won’t let it go.

Today some folks insist, with tortured logic, that the Fighting Sioux name is racist and derogatory. More than 100 faculty members (who else?) have expressed their righteous indignation by signing a petition, and many won’t even enter UND’s Ralph Engelstad Arena, where the team logo is prominently displayed. Although North Dakota’s Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe has approved UND’s use of the name, Indian bodies such as the Standing Rock Tribal Council have passed resolutions asking UND to reject it.

But Archie Fool Bear, chair of the Standing Rock judicial committee, says his tribe’s leadership doesn’t represent the vast majority of tribal members.

Fool Bear himself voted for such a resolution in 2005. “They told us just negative things — that UND was a racist place,” he explains. Now, he says, he believes that he and others were fed a bill of goods.

“When I went around to my constituents on the reservation,” says Fool Bear, “a majority of people said, ‘Why can’t we vote on it?’ “Most tribal members would support the name if they got the chance,” adds Joe White Mountain, another committee member.

That would be consistent with Indians’ views nationally. In a 2002 Sports Illustrated poll, 81 percent of Native American respondents said no when asked whether high school and college teams should stop using Indian nicknames.

Members of the Standing Rock judicial committee visited UND early in 2006 to assess the situation for themselves. “We spoke to everyone, from students on the street to people at the gas station,” says Fool Bear. “Not one gave us any evidence of racism. We went to a hockey game, and they talked about the courage and integrity of the Sioux people. We looked at each other like, ‘Wow, we don’t even honor our Sioux warriors or veterans like this on the reservation.’ ”

White Mountain recalls the committee’s meeting with a UND group that opposes the name. “I asked them, ‘What tribe do you belong to?’ ” he says. “Not one was a Sioux Indian.”This group insisted that the name promotes racism on campus,” adds Fool Bear. “I told them, ‘Put any instances of abuse in writing.’ Today, I’m still waiting — I haven’t gotten one complaint.”

If anything is “hostile and abusive” at UND, it’s the way that some activists treat Indian students who take a different view.

“Our young people go there to get an education,” says Fool Bear. “When they arrive, they’re asked, ‘What do you think of the logo?’ If they have no problem with it, they are badgered and harassed for four years.”

Fool Bear and others are now trying to get the Tribal Council resolution rescinded. They point out that UND has a zero-tolerance policy on racism, and that it makes Indian education a top priority, with more than 30 programs to support its Indian students. The “Indians into Medicine” program, for example, has generated 20 percent of all the American Indian doctors in the United States, according to school officials.

Marc Ranfranz, a 2004 UND grad who played goalie for the hockey team and who is Sioux, says he strongly supports the team name. “You feel so good being Sioux — the energy that goes through your body when you walk in the rink and see the logo all over,” he recalls. “I think of it every day, how good it was to throw on the jersey and play for the Fighting Sioux. It made you want to strive even harder to reach your goal — to make everybody with a stake in the logo proud.”

[Siouxfan]

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles ... 143288.txt

Archie Fool Bear: Chair of the Standing Rock Sioux judicial committee

University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux - that's a nice sounding name. The Standing Rock Warriors, also a nice sounding name,and the Solen Sioux and the Eagle Butte Braves and so forth. Like all race issues, this one is centered on a unstable platform. There are those who disagree with the name, and on the other side, those who do not, and somewhere in between, those who could not care less. We use ourselves as a mascot when we see fit but disagree when others do the same, the first contradiction.

Being a member of the Great Sioux Nation is no different to me than being a citizen of the United States. Those who would call me a sell-out or by any other derogatory name, I call lost - lost, in the sense that although their opinion is their own, it contradicts their everyday lifestyles. Unless they're still living in a tipi and hunting and gathering their food year around, then their opinion means as much to me as the UND Fighting Sioux name does.

Have we all not become Westernized, do we not go to the grocery store to get food, go to Wal-Mart to buy all sorts of stuff, and do we not hope our children go off to college and get good jobs? If they answer yes to any of these questions, then they've become westernized. Do we not honor our veterans, "our Akicita," those who keep us safe from harm? They're fighting for western society in a white man's army. I haven't heard of Al-Qaida attacking any reservations yet.

I am a United States Marine Corps veteran and am proud to say I served my country. I am also proud to say that I am a Native American, but to hear so many people making this Fighting Sioux nickname an issue makes me wonder what's really going on. Is this issue really as life-altering as some of them make it, or something else? Maybe it's a political crutch, or a reason to drop out of school because their grades aren't up to par, or maybe they've been victimized by racism sometime in their life - what better way to get some revenge? Or maybe it's as simple as they don't even know why.

I've been to the UND campus many times; I have several friends who have graduated from and are still attending UND, and we all have similar opinions. The name isn't an issue to us. We are secure in our lives and circumstances and we understand that people are just people, and no matter where we go, there's always going to be those few bad apples.

A recent meeting on the topic at the UND campus attracted 40 natives, four of whom where Sioux, so how many of us are really offended by it? Six of eight districts on our reservation voted for UND to keep the name, but our chairman choose to ignore this fact, so what does this say about his opinion of people? The name Sioux is a shortened phase of Nadouessioux, a French word meaning, "Snakes in the Grass," however interpreted by the people it represents "us," "the Sioux"; the name's usage in itself is disputable and could be considered offensive. Now if UND's name was the "Fighting Lakotas," then I could see all the fuss over the issue, and in reality, the logo actually means "the fighting snakes in the grass", but that's beside the point.

Racism is not going to end in North Dakota; it's been a part of every society around the world since time began. In every society, race, religion, and culture, there's going to be those few bad apples that make everyone look bad.

It's the same in our society on the reservation. We have racism that exists between our own people, against each other, and yet this issue seems to supersede our real tangible problems: Jobs, suicides, alcoholism, gangs, methamphetamines, law enforcement shortages, violence against women and children and so on. The university has no more control of those few bad apples in Grand Forks than we do here on the reservation.

In 1969, our former chairman, Aljoe "A.J." Agard concurred with university President Thatcher for the university to use the name. The chairman, with a district building named after him, gave our blessing, and he did it in the midst of a civil rights movement. It could it have been an attempt to bridge relations between our two races, but once again we contradict ourselves. Just one more reason to hold on to that old reputation as "Indian givers": we say one thing and do another.

In the end, even if people win their battle and the name is discarded, what will they have accomplished? Maybe all the whites will leave North America and emigrate back to Europe, maybe racism will end and we'll never again be discriminated against; maybe this will fix all our people's problems. Or maybe it would be just a small personal victory for a few politically and individually motivated agendas, which could push back race relations for generations to come. Whether they like it or not, white society is not leaving, and we are part of it. So maybe they should ask themselves: Is winning this battle really a goal for the people or is it for more personal reasons?

I do not intend to offend or presume that I am a wiser or better man than the next. The contradictions that are a part of our everyday lives on our reservation are reflected in this UND "Fighting Sioux" issue. If the majority of people in Standing Rock are not offended by the logo, then we should stand by our former leader's wishes and allow UND to keep the name. It is not the choice of a few politicians to discard the people's wishes for their own personal beliefs.

(Fool Bear, of Fort Yates, is named Mato Iyotaka. - Editor)

[College Recruiter]

If anything is “hostile and abusive” at UND, it’s the way that some activists treat Indian students who take a different view.

This Indian better watch out...the liberal elite may put a hit out on them for being "anti-politically correct" on the subject.

Excellent articles....I notice none of the defenders of the "anti-UND mascot" crowd has piped up yet on these new posts.

It is humorous really........but more so...it is SAD!

[College Recruiter]

It's the same in our society on the reservation. We have racism that exists between our own people, against each other, and yet this issue seems to supersede our real tangible problems: Jobs, suicides, alcoholism, gangs, methamphetamines, law enforcement shortages, violence against women and children and so on. The university has no more control of those few bad apples in Grand Forks than we do here on the reservation.

WOW...this quote says it all.