J.D quinn to Montana?

DriftCat · Post by **DriftCat** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:41 am

I agree. You would figure that because they violated NCAA rules that they wouldn't be able to play at any NCAA school.

LTown Cat · Post by **LTown Cat** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:41 am

El_Gato wrote:I'd be concerned about ANY kid who drops down because his former team kicked him off for violating TEAM rules but what I don't understand is when a kid is booted for NCAA violations, how can he then just walk right on to a lower-division team and play right away? I'm pretty sure that both Quinn and his former teammate at OU knew they were crossing NCAA lines with their "jobs"; that being the case, it doesn't seem right to me that they can just move down & keep right on playing.

And yes, griz fans, I'd feel the same way & wonder the same things if Quinn had gone to MSU.

I believe they could have applied for re-instatement and played again at OU, but Stoops kicked them off-rightfully so. Therefore, their only shot to play right away was to drop down and apply for re-instatement. If they are that good, I'm surprised they didn't just sit out a year and go to another I-A school. Thing is that it remains to be seen, but they might end up sitting half the year anyway.

Post by **kmax** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:42 am

Did they ever actually get any action taken against them by the NCAA? Every article I have read just said that Oklahoma kicked those two out after their own investigation. I don't really know, just kind of wondering.

catatac · Post by **catatac** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:56 am

El_Gato wrote:I'd be concerned about ANY kid who drops down because his former team kicked him off for violating TEAM rules but what I don't understand is when a kid is booted for NCAA violations, how can he then just walk right on to a lower-division team and play right away? I'm pretty sure that both Quinn and his former teammate at OU knew they were crossing NCAA lines with their "jobs"; that being the case, it doesn't seem right to me that they can just move down & keep right on playing.

And yes, griz fans, I'd feel the same way & wonder the same things if Quinn had gone to MSU.

I know - that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard if true. "Well, you screwed up son - so you can't play for Oklahoma anymore. But tell you what - we'll let you play for another Division I school, Montana, because they're 1AA, not 1A... but we're going to penalize you and only let you play half the season. How's that sound?"

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:33 am

Who says they get to drop down and play right away. Seems to me they are both going to have to serve some type of suspension from games.

I think 5 games is a just suspension.

But as long as we are on the topic, what about a guy like Henderson who, if you go by info from some Buff fans, may have stole some stuff. Sure it is rumor, but Kramer surely knows what exactly he did. Whether he had sticky finger in the locker room or whatever, Henderson will serve no suspension at all. In fact, he was punished by Hawkins, and the punishment was pretty severe, so the offence must have been pretty severe. Yet he will play the first game of the year.

I get that one violated team rules, and one NCAA. But the one who violated team rules very likely violated more than just rules set by the team. I know I'll be blasted for speculating, but the fact remains Hawkings thought it was serious enough to kick the kid off of the team, and he'll be playing in the first game for the cats even though Kramer knows what the kid did.

I'm not critisizing Kramer, but pointing out that people are applying two sets of morals here.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:38 am

In addition, as is usually the case, MSU may be put into the same situation with a player at some point. We'll see how they handle it and what fans say.
I'm sure Griz fans critisized Kramer for taking the kid with some problems with the law, I forget his name with this pounding headache I have, but then the Griz picked up a kid with prior problems with the law. And cat fans critisized the Griz.
And on and on. And it will continue. MSU WILL take a kid in the future who has had some kind of problems with the law, the NCAA, or the school he was at. And so will the Griz, ISU, PSU, NAU, etc.
Where the line is drawn in the sand for each school/coach will be different, but all will be in a position to decide and all will give kids a second even third chance, and all will turn kids away.
Bet on it.

HelenaCat95 · Post by **HelenaCat95** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:50 am

JahGriz wrote:In addition, as is usually the case, MSU may be put into the same situation with a player at some point. We'll see how they handle it and what fans say.
I'm sure Griz fans critisized Kramer for taking the kid with some problems with the law, I forget his name with this pounding headache I have, but then the Griz picked up a kid with prior problems with the law. And cat fans critisized the Griz.
And on and on. And it will continue. MSU WILL take a kid in the future who has had some kind of problems with the law, the NCAA, or the school he was at. And so will the Griz, ISU, PSU, NAU, etc.
Where the line is drawn in the sand for each school/coach will be different, but all will be in a position to decide and all will give kids a second even third chance, and all will turn kids away.
Bet on it.

Jahgriz,
I think you make some very valid points. The "Cat/Griz" rivalry probably clouds all of our comments.
I guess some of the frustration from the Cat side is that for years, many Griz fans criticized the Cats for (among others):
1) taking kids with a past history (academic and other);
2) taking out-of-state kids; and
3) taking JC's and drop-downs.

Now it seems that the Griz are doing the same things. Unfortunately, due to Lex's injury, your entire backfield, and probably #1 receiver are all kids that fall into 1 or 2 of the above categories.

Keep in mind, I'm not criticizing. Each has to decide what is best for their school and their football program. But it all begs the question, "Are you proud of the direction your program is headed?". That is the question that we have all had to ask. I'm curious what others think.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:28 pm

True Hcat. Each person thinks differently. I'm just very surprised at how some I-AA fans in general are reacting to taking a kid who broke this particular rule. Maybe it is the amount of money, I don't know. But the fact is this rule is broken to some extent by many, many players and universities.

One recent example is a kid who was short on money, or possibly just short on money in his pocket at the time. His coach gave him $6 to hit up a fast food joint. Well it turns out the kid paid the coach back, but didn't pay interest on the $6.

Granted, there was more ignorance involved with this case than intentional breaking of the rules. But NCAA rules were broken none the less.

I like the rule in general because if it wasn't in place the rich schools with rich boosters would take over college football even more than they already have. But this rule is in place to protect equity in college football (ha ha, protect equity, while the BCS is still in place) and to keep it as an amateur sport. It isn't in place to keep kids from getting money, it is in place to keep schools and boosters from enticing recruits with money.

I fauld the players who take the money, they should know better, but you can bet the boosters who give them the money sell them on the idea and make it sound as if it is no big deal. Some kids just don't get the gravity of it, some know exactly what is going on. But to me, the majority of the fault rests on those dishing out the money. Again, just my opinion. I'm not trying to make excuses for the kids and you won't find me siding with those who bring suits against others because they were stupid. I'm all for personal responsibility, but am also for fair just treatment, especially of players in college football who make a lot of money for a lot of people, and don't get a whole lot out of it. A college education they do usually get, but they are pawns in a much bigger business, and treated as such in most cases.

tetoncat · Post by **tetoncat** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:19 pm

I agree and was discussing this last night. So many times you see a player do something wrong and the school does not catch him or do anything about it. Later, it is discovered and the school is penalized, by lost scholarships or being held out of bowl games. This hurts the current group of players who may not have done anything wrong. In this case, they find out, kick the kids off, and what happens, they go to another school and may be able to play. Just seems like there needs to be some suspension penalty when you violate NCAA rules that hit the players first then the university. And it should follow the player.

Catmandoo · Post by **Catmandoo** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:40 pm

HelenaCat, I totally agree with you. I am so sick of listening to the Griz fan hypocrites who have criticized us for years. Now, you should go over to egriz.com and read how they are trying to justify the infractions which these IA dropdown players have had to cause them to be kicked off their teams.

What is more funny is they are having a big war between their own fans about this. Several fans have expressed concern about the direction of the program under Hauck, because of taking these kids. A large group of Griz fans is slamming them for being bad fans, and not sticking by Bobby, right or wrong. It is quite humorous over there, you should check it out for a good laugh.

One guy said that Quinn could play on the O-line right next to Russum. Then they could run the "prison break" sweep play! LOL

VictorG · Post by **VictorG** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:49 pm

gtapp wrote:
info197176 wrote:Yes Bomar wanted to transfer to Montana, but Dennison nixed it because of the publicity that would follow...
MSU would probably have done the same with our recent issues. Better to keep the low profile I guess.

I'm glad we turned the QB away and kept the OLmen. I'm sure the QB (if he plays and stays out of trouble) will be great, but in the Griz's situation, one more xfer QB could very well be one to many. At what point do you risk the attitudes of the current good prospects (and I think the Griz have a couple) and the chemistry of the QB unit and team as a whole? Besides, only 1 QB can play at a time and no matter what, he wouldn't be much good to us until he learned the offense which means next year anyway.

On the other hand, you can NEVER have to many OLmen, no matter how they came to you. 5 lineman play at at time and injuries of various levels are a weekly occurrence.

This is all above and beyond the bad press that would happen. I can only imagine eGriz and Bobcatnation had we taken him!

twentythreeOh4 · Post by **twentythreeOh4** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:01 pm

El_Gato wrote:I'd be concerned about ANY kid who drops down because his former team kicked him off for violating TEAM rules but what I don't understand is when a kid is booted for NCAA violations, how can he then just walk right on to a lower-division team and play right away? I'm pretty sure that both Quinn and his former teammate at OU knew they were crossing NCAA lines with their "jobs"; that being the case, it doesn't seem right to me that they can just move down & keep right on playing.

And yes, griz fans, I'd feel the same way & wonder the same things if Quinn had gone to MSU.

I wonder why you didn't express all this concern when MSU picked up Henderson from Colorado? After all he was suspended from the Buffs, not just once, but twice -- missed the entire 2003 season. With all the wild things that went on at CU one wonders what does it take to be suspended by Gary Barnett? He didn't learn his lesson, because he got suspended again by Hawkins.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:45 am

2304,

I thought I made myself pretty clear: I AM concerned about Henderson or any other player who gets himself booted off his team for violating their rules. Obviously you hope he's learned his lesson and does not cause problems for the Cats.

My issue was whether or not the NCAA levies any sanctions against players who violate THEIR rules; I was not/am not aware that Quinn was suspended for 5 games. Is that the straight skinny on him? If so, that seems at least somewhat appropriate.