NYT

[cats2506]

This situation in Missoula just keeps getting uglier and uglier. It's really not fair to the people that work hard to represent UM well. However, it just seems like an unnecessary step to try to remove a member of the Board of Regents over one comment. I remember our feelings around the time when Kramer was fired and all of the negative attention surrounding the program. However, this fanbase didn't try to have everyone from the athletic trainer to the Board of Regents fired. The only petition I remember was one to Geoff Gamble asking to reinstate Mike Kramer as head coach. (On a side note, I signed that petition yet I think our football program is so much better off now with Coach Ash...hindsight is 20/20.) It makes me cringe to think that people are so mad that someone said something bad about their football team that they lose sight of the greater issues at hand here.

The difference being that your AD who cited "lack of control" when defaming and firing Kramer was an employee of the school. While he screwed up by publicly crucifying Kramer his position as AD allowed him to be subjective with regards to his athletics program. Williams on the other hand while entitled to his opinion, is expected to remain impartial as a member of the BOR.

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PW expressed his opinion, as is his right as a citizen and a member of the BOR, I don't see where he showed bias for or against anything. The legal incidents are a long list at UM over the last several years. the same could and was said of MSU a few years back. The sooner you recognize and admit the problem the sooner you can begin to correct it.

[codecat]

This situation in Missoula just keeps getting uglier and uglier. It's really not fair to the people that work hard to represent UM well. However, it just seems like an unnecessary step to try to remove a member of the Board of Regents over one comment. I remember our feelings around the time when Kramer was fired and all of the negative attention surrounding the program. However, this fanbase didn't try to have everyone from the athletic trainer to the Board of Regents fired. The only petition I remember was one to Geoff Gamble asking to reinstate Mike Kramer as head coach. (On a side note, I signed that petition yet I think our football program is so much better off now with Coach Ash...hindsight is 20/20.) It makes me cringe to think that people are so mad that someone said something bad about their football team that they lose sight of the greater issues at hand here.

The difference being that your AD who cited "lack of control" when defaming and firing Kramer was an employee of the school. While he screwed up by publicly crucifying Kramer his position as AD allowed him to be subjective with regards to his athletics program. Williams on the other hand while entitled to his opinion, is expected to remain impartial as a member of the BOR.

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I always thought it was Geoff Gamble's remarks that Kramer sued over - as reported in this piece by the Gazette.

As with Pflugrad and O’Day, Kramer was fired after a highly publicized series of legal woes involving football players. After his firing, then-MSU president Geoff Gamble said: “We have this whole suite of criminal activities, but there are academic issues and compliance issues. They all are in the realm of leadership issues.”

Kramer sued, alleging that statement damaged his career and reputation. And, he maintained that UM’s Bobby Hauck, who preceded Pflugrad as Grizzlies head coach, was treated differently by the university system. Hauck was kept on even though several football players were arrested for violent crimes.

Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-a ... z2Kms606xI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[[cat_bracket]]

PW's comments were true, but unnecessary. It was a case of piling on and I can see UM fans being pissed, but there is no question that UM was recruiting players with previous issues (aka thugs). I'm not saying all of those players bit UM in the ass, but some of them (Coleman, Quinn, Freeman and others) did. I see some fans, led by one of the player's attorney parent, decided to take his comments literally, which is incorrect. PW wasn't stating that every single player UM brought in was a thug and his comments shouldn't cause him to be removed from the BOR.

[CARDIAC_CATS]

PW's comments were true, but unnecessary. It was a case of piling on and I can see UM fans being pissed, but there is no question that UM was recruiting players with previous issues (aka thugs). I'm not saying all of those players bit UM in the ass, but some of them (Coleman, Quinn, Freeman and others) did. I see some fans, led by one of the player's attorney parent, decided to take his comments literally, which is incorrect. PW wasn't stating that every single player UM brought in was a thug and his comments shouldn't cause him to be removed from the BOR.

So now it's not only the Missoulian's fault, it is Williams fault.

Look at UM's arrrest record over the last 2-3 years. The TRUTH hurts. Everyone in the state that follows Cat/Griz has been saying that the last 2 years (even Griz fans where I work). They are sick of the crime and THUGS.

[codecat]

As the dumpster fire burns:

http://www.kpax.com/news/some-want-pat- ... f-regents/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Irregardless of my position about Pat Williams and how he worded what he said (which I wouldn't expect much different given his political background), its my opinion that this move by some in The Montana Quarterback Club is just another sign in a series of how resistant a culture, once established, is to change - its always someone else's fault first.

[[cat_bracket]]

I'm just baffled that a fan base can be so vocal about what PW said and barely say a word about Milt Datsopolous's comment about Beau Donaldson. Milt is on some kind of UM Booster board and he's calling a confessed rapist a "quality" guy. How does he get a pass on that? I know that if we had a booster saying something like that I'd be freaked out that our entire athletic program was corrupt. If you want to taint the success you've had over the years, this is a good way to do it. The good UM fans (and there are a lot of them out there) better stand up and let it be known that they won't stand for this kind of thing. Otherwise everyone is just going to lump them all together in with that win-at-all-cost crew. Datsopolous is very entrenched in the UM inner circles. At least he was when O'Day and Foley were there, but its time for UM and fans to distance themselves from that guy. You have to wonder what the NCAA thinks when they see his comment and little to no reaction from UM or its fans.

[allcat]

People can say that they recruited guys without regard to their character, but so have we. What Connor did was bad, that is why he is on a short leash. We should give kids a second chance. My problem with what Pat Williams said, was that you are totally blaming the kids. If the program were to dismiss some of those kids, and explain to new recruits, we don't put up with this stuff, then they institutional attitude becomes something where kids will strive to become better people. I am blaming the program and the school for the problems, yes the individuals did the deeds, but the attitude was that's ok you are a football player, you're special.

[tampa_griz]

Dumpster Fire!

[Bobcat Sig]

The dumpster fire continues to burn ...

http://buttesports.com/down-with-montana-boys/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read that article and while it was well reasoned, it just screams of butthurt.

Also, this:

[CARDIAC_CATS]

Dumpster Fire!

Yes, I believe it has ignited again.

[John K]

The dumpster fire continues to burn ...

http://buttesports.com/down-with-montana-boys/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read that article and while it was well reasoned, it just screams of butthurt.

Also, this:

It also screams of Butte parochialism (although anyone who is familiar with Butte shouldn't be stunned by this), since the only coaches and players that he defended specifically by name were those with Butte ties. I wonder if he would have been so "butthurt" if the UM program had no coaches or players from Butte? And Foley asks why Pat Williams didn't speak out against MSU when we were similarly being branded as a team of thugs by such people as Ashley Croom. But then I might ask Foley why he didn't feel compelled to defend MSU when we were the ones whose image was being tarnished in a national publication? I believe we had a couple of Butte players-to-be on the roster at that time (I think Casey Dennehy and Willie Sullivan were both incoming recruits at the time SI published their story about MSU).

[tampa_griz]

The dumpster fire continues to burn ...

http://buttesports.com/down-with-montana-boys/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read that article and while it was well reasoned, it just screams of butthurt.

Also, this:

Dumpster Fire!

[[cat_bracket]]

The dumpster fire continues to burn ...

http://buttesports.com/down-with-montana-boys/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read that article and while it was well reasoned, it just screams of butthurt.

Also, this:

It also screams of Butte parochialism (although anyone who is familiar with Butte shouldn't be stunned by this), since the only coaches and players that he defended specifically by name were those with Butte ties. I wonder if he would have been so "butthurt" if the UM program had no coaches or players from Butte? And Foley asks why Pat Williams didn't speak out against MSU when we were similarly being branded as a team of thugs by such people as Ashley Croom. But then I might ask Foley why he didn't feel compelled to defend MSU when we were the ones whose image was being tarnished in a national publication? I believe we had a couple of Butte players-to-be on the roster at that time (I think Casey Dennehy and Willie Sullivan were both incoming recruits at the time SI published their story about MSU).

Good post. I'm glad I'm not the only one that remembers this. Foley is a big time Griz homer and Cat hater by his own admission. As you can see, he'll do anything to try to sugarcoat this or divert attention away from the real issue. I guarantee you he won't write a column about booster/lawyer Datsopolous and his quality guy comment about Donaldson. Tap 'er Light, Tap 'er Hard, anyway you wanna Tap 'er is OK with Datso and Foles as long as Griz football keeps rockin'.

[SonomaCat]

This situation in Missoula just keeps getting uglier and uglier. It's really not fair to the people that work hard to represent UM well. However, it just seems like an unnecessary step to try to remove a member of the Board of Regents over one comment. I remember our feelings around the time when Kramer was fired and all of the negative attention surrounding the program. However, this fanbase didn't try to have everyone from the athletic trainer to the Board of Regents fired. The only petition I remember was one to Geoff Gamble asking to reinstate Mike Kramer as head coach. (On a side note, I signed that petition yet I think our football program is so much better off now with Coach Ash...hindsight is 20/20.) It makes me cringe to think that people are so mad that someone said something bad about their football team that they lose sight of the greater issues at hand here.

The difference being that your AD who cited "lack of control" when defaming and firing Kramer was an employee of the school. While he screwed up by publicly crucifying Kramer his position as AD allowed him to be subjective with regards to his athletics program. Williams on the other hand while entitled to his opinion, is expected to remain impartial as a member of the BOR.

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There's nothing that Williams said that would give the appearance that he's not being impartial. Were any of the other units of the University system having the same issues, he may well have grandstanded with them as the subject just as easily.