UM - NCAA investigation

[John K]

So what's up with the NCAA investigaton at UM? Wasn't it originally supposed to wrapped up more than xix months ago? What do you think it means that it seems to be dragging on much longer than originally planned? Or are they already done, but just haven't released any findings yet, for whatever reason? Has anyone heard anything about what's going on in Missoula? It seems like that would be a big cloud hanging over their head during recruiting season.

[GRIZFNZ]

You haven't heard?? The NCAA is going to ban post season play for 10 years, reduce the number if scholarships to 4 per year so we can only play 8 man football and fine the university 1 billion dollars. Just ask Papa G.....he knows what's going on.

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[[cat_bracket]]

If I may speculate:
The fact that they should've been done by July and aren't is concerning. That tells me they either can't find anything to put any serious sanctions on them or that they keep finding more problems or that they aren't being cooperated with or they're waiting for the DOJ and DOE to get done.

The first one seems unreasonable. I really don't think they would just keep the investigation going, because they basically have a vendetta against UM. The second one is iffy, too. I doubt they're turning up more stuff. The third seems somewhat reasonable. I imagine with all the players that have left since last season there is a lot of interviewing to do, but it just seems like if they were avoiding the investigators, the investigators would give them the ultimatum of either cooperating or they're going to assume they're guilty. The fourth one is the most likely. I think, like the did with the Freeh report at PSU, they'll wait for the DOE and DOJ to get done and base much of what they do on those investigations. I think they'll use those reports along with the Barz report and their own findings to determine what action to take on UM. That's what they did at PSU. They said the Freeh report was more thorough than anything they would've done.

The Barz report is already somewhat damning in that it points out gaps in reporting among staff. If the DOE and DOJ find similar issues, it could cement UM's fate in a negative way. I've heard a rumor that Engstrom offered to take a two-year playoff penalty and was turned down, so take that for what it's worth.

I do get a kick out of UM fans saying the biggest thing they've found so far is fans giving players water and hot dogs after a game. That may be one of their findings, but I'd be amazed if its the only one.

[[cat_bracket]]

You haven't heard?? The NCAA is going to ban post season play for 10 years, reduce the number if scholarships to 4 per year so we can only play 8 man football and fine the university 1 billion dollars. Just ask Papa G.....he knows what's going on.

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I don't recall him saying anything like that, but he has been correct on a lot of what he's posted here. Don't let that change your tune though.

[PapaG]

You haven't heard?? The NCAA is going to ban post season play for 10 years, reduce the number if scholarships to 4 per year so we can only play 8 man football and fine the university 1 billion dollars. Just ask Papa G.....he knows what's going on.
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I never once said that, and not once did I even pretend to know how the NCAA would punish UM, if they do at all. I said the the NCAA is a mystery, and that the entire AD has clammed up. I did get some more inside information from a very good source, but only RTB and BAC know about it, and it really wasn't newsworthy in terms of what the NCAA may do, but rather on how little those involved even know about the process.

Oregon has been under an NCAA investigation since March of 2011, if that is an indicator of who slowly the NCAA can move. USC's case took 4 years until the NCAA gave their findings. On the flip side, the NCAA ruled in 2 days that Cam Newton was eligible, even after his dad was caught on tape negotiating money to deliver him to a school, and regardless of he got the money, that in itself is an NCAA violation..

Seems as if public information is right there in terms of how long this can take if anybody wants to find it.

[bobcat99]

As the Cam Newton thing proved, the NCAA doesn't really need facts to do anything, they aren't a court of law, and they can basically just do what they want. To say they're corrupt is an understatement.

[Walk-on]

Their drinks were probably spiked and now they are on Denny Washington's Florida yacht wondering what the heck happened and how they got there and why they got season tickets for Christmas.

[CapitalCityCat]

Their drinks were probably spiked and now they are on Denny Washington's Florida yacht wondering what the heck happened and how they got there and why they got season tickets for Christmas.

Either that or they ended up in Uncle Milt's timeshare in Cancun.

[SonomaCat]

If this investigation ultimately wraps up, and nothing of substance is found, I think UM would have every right to be livid. The very fact that an investigation is on-going has to be horrible for their recruiting right now, and casts a shadow over the entire program.

But at the same time, I would assume that the NCAA would be aware of that, and wouldn't drag out an investigation unless there was something there. I'm not sure about precedents for lawsuits, but I would think that UM would have some kind of legal recourse against the NCAA if the NCAA was being negligent by dragging out an investigation that was without merit (and thereby causing harm to the program).

[Toucat]

I don't think we will see anything until the DOJ finishes their investigation. I don't know how much DOJ is sharing their findings with the NCAA, but I would think that some of the DOJ violations would also be NCAA violations, and vice versa. I think the NCAA will wait to see what DOJ finds to try to minimize the chance that the DOJ findings may contradict what the NCAA determines.

[PapaG]

I'm not sure about precedents for lawsuits, but I would think that UM would have some kind of legal recourse against the NCAA if the NCAA was being negligent by dragging out an investigation that was without merit (and thereby causing harm to the program).

The only case to be made is unfair treatment by the NCAA compared to other schools, but not even USC has filed that lawsuit against the NCAA, when the 'evidence' that USC knew about Bush's parents was flimsy at best, and that investigation dragged on for four years.

Oregon is almost 2 years into an investigation over a single 'recruiting service', and all parties involved, including the player, are on record saying no money was ever given to him, and that Will Lyles never steered him to Oregon, or any player to any school.

The NCAA's membership is voluntary, so it's tough to sue an organization that you're a willing member of, and agree to their rules. The only case would seem to be to go after the NCAA's anti-trust status, but that would actually hurt most schools and give the NCAA even more power over them, if it existed after the lawsuit and the plaintiff won the case.

[SonomaCat]

I'm not sure about precedents for lawsuits, but I would think that UM would have some kind of legal recourse against the NCAA if the NCAA was being negligent by dragging out an investigation that was without merit (and thereby causing harm to the program).

The only case to be made is unfair treatment by the NCAA compared to other schools, but not even USC has filed that lawsuit against the NCAA, when the 'evidence' that USC knew about Bush's parents was flimsy at best, and that investigation dragged on for four years.

Oregon is almost 2 years into an investigation over a single 'recruiting service', and all parties involved, including the player, are on record saying no money was ever given to him, and that Will Lyles never steered him to Oregon, or any player to any school.

The NCAA's membership is voluntary, so it's tough to sue an organization that you're a willing member of, and agree to their rules. The only case would seem to be to go after the NCAA's anti-trust status, but that would actually hurt most schools and give the NCAA even more power over them, if it existed after the lawsuit and the plaintiff won the case.

Maybe this would be the only precedent then (brand new):

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... tany-lions

[[cat_bracket]]

Whenever I start thinking that maybe the NCAA was a too harsh on Penn State I remember Joe Paterno when he came out of his house during the middle of the whole ordeal and started to do the "We Are. Penn State" chant with a bunch of fans.

Talk about reinforcing the thought that you have a win at all cost culture. "Yeah, we're being investigated for not reporting an assistant coach for raping boys, but screw that, We Are! Penn State!" At that moment it was like the NCAA said, "Uhh, Penn State, we need to have a little talk."

[John K]

I sort of have mixed emotions about this. On the one hand, I do believe the NCAA sanctions were a bit too harsh, considering that no one who is still affiliated with their program had anything to do with the atrocities that occurred there. On the other hand though, I think they'll take an unbelievable PR beating, for choosing to fight the NCAA on this, rather than accepting whatever the NCAA doled out, regardless of whether or not it was unfair.

[PapaG]

I'm not sure about precedents for lawsuits, but I would think that UM would have some kind of legal recourse against the NCAA if the NCAA was being negligent by dragging out an investigation that was without merit (and thereby causing harm to the program).

The only case to be made is unfair treatment by the NCAA compared to other schools, but not even USC has filed that lawsuit against the NCAA, when the 'evidence' that USC knew about Bush's parents was flimsy at best, and that investigation dragged on for four years.

Oregon is almost 2 years into an investigation over a single 'recruiting service', and all parties involved, including the player, are on record saying no money was ever given to him, and that Will Lyles never steered him to Oregon, or any player to any school.

The NCAA's membership is voluntary, so it's tough to sue an organization that you're a willing member of, and agree to their rules. The only case would seem to be to go after the NCAA's anti-trust status, but that would actually hurt most schools and give the NCAA even more power over them, if it existed after the lawsuit and the plaintiff won the case.

Maybe this would be the only precedent then (brand new):

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... tany-lions

As I understand the Pennsylvania v. NCAA case, it is about the NCAA using PA state funds from the PSU general fund, and then spending it out of state. Seems as if PA is saying that 100% of the $60m should stay within the state of PA, unless I am reading it wrong.

[Grizlaw]

As I understand the Pennsylvania v. NCAA case, it is about the NCAA using PA state funds from the PSU general fund, and then spending it out of state. Seems as if PA is saying that 100% of the $60m should stay within the state of PA, unless I am reading it wrong.

I'll be curious to read the actual complaint when it becomes available. From my reading of the article, I suspect that the argument you're referring to (i.e., that the NCAA should be required to spend the funds in PA) is a secondary argument that the state is making. Their primary argument seems to be that the NCAA doesn't have the authority to impose a fine on Penn State at all.

I have no idea how this case will turn out, but there are some pretty interesting procedural legal issues here (such as whether Penn State's agreement with the NCAA is binding on the state, whether the state has standing to sue, etc.) Since the complaint isn't public yet, I suspect the author of this article didn't really have all the information necessary to spell the issues out properly, but I'll be interested to read more about this as it moves forward.