They don't lie. But people put too much emphasis on them a lot. For instance Henry Ellard had more TDs, catches and yards than Jerry Rice in 1988. Rice, despite what the stats say, was a better WR that year. Every year. He was also more valuable as his Super Bowl MVP that year would say.catdaddy7 wrote:The term "stats don't lie" comes to mind.[cat_bracket] wrote:I think you're putting too much emphasis on stats. A player can be equally valuable without the eye-popping numbers.Colter_Nuanez wrote:I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.ilovethecats wrote:no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...
Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.
I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.
Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.
Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Moderators: rtb, kmax, SonomaCat
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:56 am
- Location: Bozeman
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.[cat_bracket] wrote:I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.
Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.
Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
No one is comparing him to Kupp. People are saying he has that kind of potential as a WR. Athletically there is no comparison. TRod is a better athlete.Silenoz wrote:Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.[cat_bracket] wrote:I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.
Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.
Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp
Almost across the board in every sport at every level when a player has a season like Kupp just had its followed by a drop off. AP just had one last year. McGhee (the two-time BSC MVP) did from from frosh to soph years.
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:56 am
- Location: Bozeman
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing him to Kupp.
I'd say most of this thread is doing exactly that... including your posts
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
No one is comparing TRod's production as a college player to Kupp, which is what you were framing your comments around and therefore what I'm responding to. There have comparisons, but those were limited to athletic ability with an example of their HS careers.Silenoz wrote:[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing him to Kupp.
I'd say most of this thread is doing exactly that... including your posts
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 4415
- Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
To use your Jerry Rice comparison again, there were a lot of WR's that were much better athletes than he was. What set him above was his precision and work-ethic.[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing him to Kupp. People are saying he has that kind of potential as a WR. Athletically there is no comparison. TRod is a better athlete.Silenoz wrote:Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.[cat_bracket] wrote:I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.
Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.
Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp
Almost across the board in every sport at every level when a player has a season like Kupp just had its followed by a drop off. AP just had one last year. McGhee (the two-time BSC MVP) did from from frosh to soph years.
Sound familiar? And even if Kupp does has a drop-off, he'll still be incredibly productive. Hell, if his TD catches decrease by 50%, he would still have 10 TD's…that's still very, very good.
Essentially what I'm saying is that just because you're more talented physically does not mean that you have more potential.
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:56 am
- Location: Bozeman
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Dude, most of this thread is comparing (among other things) their:[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing TRod's production as a college player to Kupp, which is what you were framing your comments around and therefore what I'm responding to. There have comparisons, but those were limited to athletic ability with an example of their HS careers.Silenoz wrote:[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing him to Kupp.
I'd say most of this thread is doing exactly that... including your posts
- work ethic
- other ethics/issues
- production
- speed
- athleticism
...but whatever, moving on. My answer would be Kupp or Adams. Hard to argue with the guy who finishes 2nd in the Payton voting, or the guy who climbs to the top of the WR heap as a frosh
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Cool. I'm glad to see you agree with me.bobcat99 wrote:To use your Jerry Rice comparison again, there were a lot of WR's that were much better athletes than he was. What set him above was his precision and work-ethic.[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing him to Kupp. People are saying he has that kind of potential as a WR. Athletically there is no comparison. TRod is a better athlete.Silenoz wrote:Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.[cat_bracket] wrote:I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.
Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.
Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp
Almost across the board in every sport at every level when a player has a season like Kupp just had its followed by a drop off. AP just had one last year. McGhee (the two-time BSC MVP) did from from frosh to soph years.
Sound familiar? And even if Kupp does has a drop-off, he'll still be incredibly productive. Hell, if his TD catches decrease by 50%, he would still have 10 TD's…that's still very, very good.
Essentially what I'm saying is that just because you're more talented physically does not mean that you have more potential.
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Whatever indeed.Silenoz wrote:Dude, most of this thread is comparing (among other things) their:[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing TRod's production as a college player to Kupp, which is what you were framing your comments around and therefore what I'm responding to. There have comparisons, but those were limited to athletic ability with an example of their HS careers.Silenoz wrote:[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing him to Kupp.
I'd say most of this thread is doing exactly that... including your posts
- work ethic
- other ethics/issues
- production
- speed
- athleticism
...but whatever, moving on. My answer would be Kupp or Adams. Hard to argue with the guy who finishes 2nd in the Payton voting, or the guy who climbs to the top of the WR heap as a frosh
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 19285
- Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:16 am
- Location: An endless run of moguls
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Good deal. I'm back on my Roderick could be a Kupp-esque-type player horse. We hang on your every word, Colter, so have a heart next time.Colter_Nuanez wrote:I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.ilovethecats wrote:no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...
Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.
I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.
Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.
MSU - 15 team National Champions (most recent 2021); 57 individual National Champions (most recent 2023).
toM StUber
toM StUber
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:57 pm
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
I think those comparisons are some what unfair as Kupp had a lot more catch attempts and I hate to say better passes to catch, Which encompasses the whole offense,I think we will do a lot better this year.TomCat88 wrote:Good deal. I'm back on my Roderick could be a Kupp-esque-type player horse. We hang on your every word, Colter, so have a heart next time.Colter_Nuanez wrote:I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.ilovethecats wrote:no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...
Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.
I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.
Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.
- catsrback76
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 8746
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:18 am
- Location: Sitting on the hill looking at the Adriatic!
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Well yea, but 21 TD's in one year don't "accidentally" happen! So, if given a chance to draft Kupp, do you take him now, or do you pass?[cat_bracket] wrote:They don't lie. But people put too much emphasis on them a lot. For instance Henry Ellard had more TDs, catches and yards than Jerry Rice in 1988. Rice, despite what the stats say, was a better WR that year. Every year. He was also more valuable as his Super Bowl MVP that year would say.catdaddy7 wrote:The term "stats don't lie" comes to mind.[cat_bracket] wrote:I think you're putting too much emphasis on stats. A player can be equally valuable without the eye-popping numbers.Colter_Nuanez wrote:I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.ilovethecats wrote:no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...
Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.
I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.
Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Pass. If he did that in the SEC or Big Ten, etc. I'd take him, but not the BSC. If he has another year like 2013, I'd change my mind.catsrback76 wrote:Well yea, but 21 TD's in one year don't "accidentally" happen! So, if given a chance to draft Kupp, do you take him now, or do you pass?[cat_bracket] wrote:They don't lie. But people put too much emphasis on them a lot. For instance Henry Ellard had more TDs, catches and yards than Jerry Rice in 1988. Rice, despite what the stats say, was a better WR that year. Every year. He was also more valuable as his Super Bowl MVP that year would say.catdaddy7 wrote:The term "stats don't lie" comes to mind.[cat_bracket] wrote:I think you're putting too much emphasis on stats. A player can be equally valuable without the eye-popping numbers.Colter_Nuanez wrote:I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.ilovethecats wrote:no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...
Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.
I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.
Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.
- catsrback76
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 8746
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:18 am
- Location: Sitting on the hill looking at the Adriatic!
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
[cat_bracket] wrote:Pass. If he did that in the SEC or Big Ten, etc. I'd take him, but not the BSC. If he has another year like 2013, I'd change my mind.catsrback76 wrote:Well yea, but 21 TD's in one year don't "accidentally" happen! So, if given a chance to draft Kupp, do you take him now, or do you pass?[cat_bracket] wrote:They don't lie. But people put too much emphasis on them a lot. For instance Henry Ellard had more TDs, catches and yards than Jerry Rice in 1988. Rice, despite what the stats say, was a better WR that year. Every year. He was also more valuable as his Super Bowl MVP that year would say.catdaddy7 wrote:The term "stats don't lie" comes to mind.[cat_bracket] wrote:I think you're putting too much emphasis on stats. A player can be equally valuable without the eye-popping numbers.Colter_Nuanez wrote:I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.ilovethecats wrote:no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...
Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.
I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.
Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.
Ok, well, you'd probably have passed on Randy Moss too, so I think that works.
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:35 pm
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 214
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:35 pm
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
Your dislike towards EWU is strong...[cat_bracket] wrote:No one is comparing him to Kupp. People are saying he has that kind of potential as a WR. Athletically there is no comparison. TRod is a better athlete.Silenoz wrote:Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.[cat_bracket] wrote:I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.
Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.
Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp
Almost across the board in every sport at every level when a player has a season like Kupp just had its followed by a drop off. AP just had one last year. McGhee (the two-time BSC MVP) did from from frosh to soph years.
- catgrad05
- Member # Retired
- Posts: 2394
- Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: North Central Montna
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
marceag wrote:Shawn Johnson should be on that list...
Interesting point. Should we be arguing best player that is retuning for 2014? That would be Kupp in a lot of peoples eyes. Best chance to have a huge production increase? A great case could be made for Johnson. Is it safe to say that Shawn Johnson was the most under utilized home run hitter in the BSC last year? I would say yes
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 19285
- Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:16 am
- Location: An endless run of moguls
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
I don't know if he was the most under utilized in the BSC, but he was definitely under utilized. He needed 15-18 touches per game, not counting returns. He had about 10. That would've not only given him the chance to hit the HR, but also saved on the wear-n-tear on Kirk.catgrad05 wrote:marceag wrote:Shawn Johnson should be on that list...
Interesting point. Should we be arguing best player that is retuning for 2014? That would be Kupp in a lot of peoples eyes. Best chance to have a huge production increase? A great case could be made for Johnson. Is it safe to say that Shawn Johnson was the most under utilized home run hitter in the BSC last year? I would say yes
MSU - 15 team National Champions (most recent 2021); 57 individual National Champions (most recent 2023).
toM StUber
toM StUber
- Clinton T
- BobcatNation Team Captain
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:30 pm
- Location: Great Falls
-
- BobcatNation Hall of Famer
- Posts: 3015
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:43 pm
Re: Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...
I'll grant you that Vernon Adams is the odds on favorite but I will go out on the thinnest of limbs here and say that Vernon Adams won't even be close to being the best player in the BSC in 2014.Clinton T wrote:Vernon Adams. Won't even be close.
If you're looking for someone with a little authority, I'm your man. I have as little as anyone!