Time for Fish to go!

Discuss anything and everything relating to Bobcat Basketball here.

Moderators: rtb, kmax, SonomaCat

Post Reply
jimb
New Recruit
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:59 pm

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by jimb » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:21 pm

We need a new coach!!! Have seen enough of Fish coaching to see he can't change dynamics/momentum of a game besides yell at his players constantly.... move, Move, MOVE. The kids played hard and you have to love their effort. They deserve better than Fish!



Cat Grad
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7463
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:05 am

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by Cat Grad » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:45 pm

Get over it. We do not want to compete with the best. All "we" want is to field a team that does not embarrass us. Mediocrity is all "we" collectively aspire to achieve. Why do you expect our athletes or coaches to be driven to excellence? Seriously.



ilovethecats
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 6509
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:50 pm

Cat Grad wrote:Get over it. We do not want to compete with the best. All "we" want is to field a team that does not embarrass us. Mediocrity is all "we" collectively aspire to achieve. Why do you expect our athletes or coaches to be driven to excellence? Seriously.
:-k



User avatar
The Butcher
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4172
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:51 am

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by The Butcher » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:46 am

I was a very big fan in the late 90s and early 00s (missed very few games), but the mediocre/terrible seasons have made me lose almost all interest (I just check the scores on my phone and look for analysis on the basketball threads). I unfortunately have hit the "whatever" stage on MBB, like A LOT of fans.
Will Fish fix that issue? I doubt it.
Will keeping Fish for another season make my interest level change? Absolutely not.
Would a new coach make me excited for MBB next year? Unfortunately, probably not.
The mishandling of MBB for 15+ years has been pretty damaging. The real question is; how/will the AD fix the issue(s) with the MBB team? It will be an uphill battle to re-energize the fan base, but that is Costello's job. There is no easy answer to this dilemma.



msu_agfan
Honorable Mention All-BobcatNation
Posts: 986
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Central Montana

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by msu_agfan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:49 am

The Butcher wrote:I was a very big fan in the late 90s and early 00s (missed very few games), but the mediocre/terrible seasons have made me lose almost all interest (I just check the scores on my phone and look for analysis on the basketball threads). I unfortunately have hit the "whatever" stage on MBB, like A LOT of fans.
Will Fish fix that issue? I doubt it.
Will keeping Fish for another season make my interest level change? Absolutely not.
Would a new coach make me excited for MBB next year? Unfortunately, probably not.
The mishandling of MBB for 15+ years has been pretty damaging. The real question is; how/will the AD fix the issue(s) with the MBB team? It will be an uphill battle to re-energize the fan base, but that is Costello's job. There is no easy answer to this dilemma.
It seems we/they/He needs to think outside the box (based on the past 20 years). Does anyone know of any serious available coaches that would actually make a difference to our culture and end results? I'm asking to see if there even is another coach out there who would want us..... good grief, yeah I just said that. How about someone have any hypothetical candidates, ideal, yet not real candidates to get the conversation going?


Animal Science/ Ag Business '96

Cataholic
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 6690
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by Cataholic » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:44 am

msu_agfan wrote:
The Butcher wrote:I was a very big fan in the late 90s and early 00s (missed very few games), but the mediocre/terrible seasons have made me lose almost all interest (I just check the scores on my phone and look for analysis on the basketball threads). I unfortunately have hit the "whatever" stage on MBB, like A LOT of fans.
Will Fish fix that issue? I doubt it.
Will keeping Fish for another season make my interest level change? Absolutely not.
Would a new coach make me excited for MBB next year? Unfortunately, probably not.
The mishandling of MBB for 15+ years has been pretty damaging. The real question is; how/will the AD fix the issue(s) with the MBB team? It will be an uphill battle to re-energize the fan base, but that is Costello's job. There is no easy answer to this dilemma.
It seems we/they/He needs to think outside the box (based on the past 20 years). Does anyone know of any serious available coaches that would actually make a difference to our culture and end results? I'm asking to see if there even is another coach out there who would want us..... good grief, yeah I just said that. How about someone have any hypothetical candidates, ideal, yet not real candidates to get the conversation going?
There are only a limited number of D1 head coaching slots available. An opening will easily generate over 100 applicants. For a young assistant coach at a D1 school, MSU is an attractive option. Does a Mountain West or West Coast Conference school have a hot shot young assistant who is killing it in recruiting? I am sure Costello has a short list ready when the time is needed.



User avatar
Cledus
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 5468
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:18 pm
Location: Billings Heights

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by Cledus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:47 am

Cataholic wrote:
msu_agfan wrote:
The Butcher wrote:I was a very big fan in the late 90s and early 00s (missed very few games), but the mediocre/terrible seasons have made me lose almost all interest (I just check the scores on my phone and look for analysis on the basketball threads). I unfortunately have hit the "whatever" stage on MBB, like A LOT of fans.
Will Fish fix that issue? I doubt it.
Will keeping Fish for another season make my interest level change? Absolutely not.
Would a new coach make me excited for MBB next year? Unfortunately, probably not.
The mishandling of MBB for 15+ years has been pretty damaging. The real question is; how/will the AD fix the issue(s) with the MBB team? It will be an uphill battle to re-energize the fan base, but that is Costello's job. There is no easy answer to this dilemma.
It seems we/they/He needs to think outside the box (based on the past 20 years). Does anyone know of any serious available coaches that would actually make a difference to our culture and end results? I'm asking to see if there even is another coach out there who would want us..... good grief, yeah I just said that. How about someone have any hypothetical candidates, ideal, yet not real candidates to get the conversation going?
There are only a limited number of D1 head coaching slots available. An opening will easily generate over 100 applicants. For a young assistant coach at a D1 school, MSU is an attractive option. Does a Mountain West or West Coast Conference school have a hot shot young assistant who is killing it in recruiting? I am sure Costello has a short list ready when the time is needed.
The current head coach and the previous one were both assistants when Fields hired them. If we're committed to thinking outside the box, then we need to consider other options.


UM is the university equivalent of Axe Body Spray and essential oils.

Cataholic
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 6690
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by Cataholic » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:57 am

Cledus wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
msu_agfan wrote:
The Butcher wrote:I was a very big fan in the late 90s and early 00s (missed very few games), but the mediocre/terrible seasons have made me lose almost all interest (I just check the scores on my phone and look for analysis on the basketball threads). I unfortunately have hit the "whatever" stage on MBB, like A LOT of fans.
Will Fish fix that issue? I doubt it.
Will keeping Fish for another season make my interest level change? Absolutely not.
Would a new coach make me excited for MBB next year? Unfortunately, probably not.
The mishandling of MBB for 15+ years has been pretty damaging. The real question is; how/will the AD fix the issue(s) with the MBB team? It will be an uphill battle to re-energize the fan base, but that is Costello's job. There is no easy answer to this dilemma.
It seems we/they/He needs to think outside the box (based on the past 20 years). Does anyone know of any serious available coaches that would actually make a difference to our culture and end results? I'm asking to see if there even is another coach out there who would want us..... good grief, yeah I just said that. How about someone have any hypothetical candidates, ideal, yet not real candidates to get the conversation going?
There are only a limited number of D1 head coaching slots available. An opening will easily generate over 100 applicants. For a young assistant coach at a D1 school, MSU is an attractive option. Does a Mountain West or West Coast Conference school have a hot shot young assistant who is killing it in recruiting? I am sure Costello has a short list ready when the time is needed.
The current head coach and the previous one were both assistants when Fields hired them. If we're committed to thinking outside the box, then we need to consider other options.
I am not saying that is where we need to focus. I am just saying that there are a lot of good coaches wanting to be a D1 head coach. Costello would have a lot to choose from.



PHAT CAT
2nd Team All-BobcatNation
Posts: 1315
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:04 pm

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by PHAT CAT » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:49 pm

I think we should let Brain finish his contract. But that's not my call to make. If we end up going in a different direction, we damn better be getting input from my boy Nico Harrison. The vice president of basketball operations for Nike, knows who we should be talking to for the job. Peter didn't listen to him last time. That needs to change.



User avatar
PapaG
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 8549
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:44 am
Location: The Magic City, MT

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by PapaG » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:14 pm

PHAT CAT wrote:I think we should let Brain finish his contract. But that's not my call to make. If we end up going in a different direction, we damn better be getting input from my boy Nico Harrison. The vice president of basketball operations for Nike, knows who we should be talking to for the job. Peter didn't listen to him last time. That needs to change.
I'd be interested to know who Nico recommended, if he was mentioning names. I mean, Fish came to Bozeman with extremely close ties to Nike, about as close as possible in collegiate sports.


Seattle to Billings to Missoula to Bozeman to Portland to Billings

What a ride

mslacat
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 6069
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by mslacat » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:34 pm

This is a post where I will try not to make a argument whether Fish should go Just to try do an honest comparison between Fish and Huse, because I have seen it mentioned quite a few times in this tread. Here are both of their records through the first four years.

Brad first 4 year record was as following
1st year 11-19 Overall 8-8 Conf (tied 5th) - You can not say he had more to work with than Fish
2nd year 15-15 Overall 7-9 Conf (6th)
3rd year 14-17 Overall 6-10 Conf (6th) (2 wins in conference tourney)
4th year 15-14 Overall 10-6 Conf (3rd)

Brian first 4 year record was as following
1st year 7-23 Overall 4-14 Conf (tied 10th)
2nd year 14-17 Overall 9-9 Conf (7th)
3rd year 16-16 Overall 11-7 Conf (5th)
4th year 13-19 Overall 6-12 Conf (3rd)

Now the thing to remember it is tough to compare the two coaches based on their back ground before being hired as the Bobcat head coach. Brad had an extensive record as a college head coach, with a winning record, Fish had no head coaching experience. Fish though had an extensive back ground in the D-1 ranks as an assistant coach in quite a few, successful programs, while Huse had only a single year in D-1 at Montana. Each of these negatives would come back to harm each coach in my opinion. I think this helped Huse come out of the gate strong. He took a team that was devastated by graduation, players leaving and player being arrested for murder and scrapped together that featured a seldom used, by Durham, native Montanan small forward who started at center. They were picked last in the league and did so much better than anyone had expected. I know after that first year, my thoughts were, if he did this with no talent imagine what he could do when he recruit real D-1 players. It was exciting! use improved his 2nd year stayed about the same in his second year and improved to himself again in his 4th year. The bloom was off his rose a little but things were still somewhat positive. His fourth year is the best he ever finished in Conference. The thing I always remember about Huse, and he told me this in person and Fields also mentioned it to Boosters, at one point in his career here Huse held the record in Conference as the program with the most consecutive appearances in the Big Sky Championship Tourney.

Fish started out win / loss roughly, but he was new and we ALL gave him a pass that year. Fish though improved his 2nd year and 3rd year in regular fashion it looked pretty darn solid. Fish also earned a reputation as a great recruiter, landing the freshman of the year both his first and second full year of recruiting. The very first time that has been accomplished in the Big Sky Conference. Furthermore his third class while small looked spectacular again with a recruit who many thought could compete for Freshman of the year again. There were some who did grow a little tiered of his on court antics and concerned about even a whiff of a true Big man in his recruiting, and JC transfer leaving in droves, but heading into 2017-18 most fans and booster were extremely excited to see what this team could do. It is true we did not have a true big man but it seemed that we were loaded. All the players were back, plus 2 transfer, a great (but small) freshman Hall and 2 Frey. The team fell apart (describe it as you may) and expectation fell to pissed off fans feeling we were wasting what talent we had. That crankiness caused many fans to look at some faults (some mentioned above) they were willing to forget when we were in constant improvement phase but were no longer willing to overlook.

Huse was on what appeared to be an upward trajectory after his fourth year and never had a record worse than 12-17 after that. Stuck in mediocrity. Fish built the program and then blew up badly (percentage wise Huse never did as bad in conference as this year's 6-12) in a year that everyone expected to be his championship contending year. When you build up expectation (intentionally or not) and you flame out you are going to take some heat. In simple terms Brad still was generating a lot of Optimism at the end of his 4th year. Fish has done a great job of extinguishing it. I truly believe college sports is is about optimism.



User avatar
BelgradeBobcat
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 8131
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Belgrade, Montana

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:02 pm

Huse had some really rotten luck when super promising post Tre Johnson, who was really coming on as a player, got booted out of school for breaking into cars, and Mohammed Fall, who was a solid Big Sky center, had to leave because of a recruiting technicality. Then at the end of his tenure was the whole Kavell Bigby-Williams mess. Huse had him signed, but being from England he didn't get through the NCAA clearinghouse and had to go to a JC. Had he gotten Bigby-Williams who knows what would have happened. That guy would have been a load in the Big Sky-but probably wouldn't have stayed here more than one season.



phantom
BobcatNation Letterman
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:58 pm

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by phantom » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:08 pm

I thought Huse sign Bigby-Williams, but Fish took over before he would have started as a freshman and then went JUCO.



User avatar
BelgradeBobcat
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 8131
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Belgrade, Montana

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:22 pm

msu_agfan wrote:It seems we/they/He needs to think outside the box (based on the past 20 years). Does anyone know of any serious available coaches that would actually make a difference to our culture and end results? I'm asking to see if there even is another coach out there who would want us..... good grief, yeah I just said that. How about someone have any hypothetical candidates, ideal, yet not real candidates to get the conversation going?
If Fish is let go. Any speculation on my part is just for entertainment purposes only. Chances are, it will be someone we've never heard of and someone Costello knows. Here's a few names-again for entertainment purposes only:

Carson Cunningham, Carroll College. His record at Carroll is extremely impressive and he turned that program around. Granted, Carroll is probably the easiest program in the Frontier Conference to turn around. He played at Oregon State for one year and then at Purdue for Gene Keady before having a modest pro career. http://carrollathletics.com/coaches.asp ... 9&path=mbb

Danny Sprinkle, Cal State Fullerton assistant. Sprinkle will be mentioned every time the MSU job is open until he dies. He's an assistant at Cal State Fullerton now. I kind of have the feeling he likes being in California and won't have any interest in the job.

Mick Durham, Alaska Fairbanks. Probably not in a million years, but his kids are still in Bozeman and seem to be really successful. His family may want him to come home. He's turned around that Alaska Fairbanks program. He is MSU's winningest head coach and was the Big Sky's winningest head coach until a few weeks ago when Randy Rahe took over. Of course Durham also has the most losses in those categories too.



User avatar
BelgradeBobcat
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 8131
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:52 pm
Location: Belgrade, Montana

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:27 pm

phantom wrote:I thought Huse sign Bigby-Williams, but Fish took over before he would have started as a freshman and then went JUCO.
Yeah that may have been how it played out. So Bigby-Williams might not have saved Huse.



MSU01
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7565
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:21 pm

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by MSU01 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:05 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
Mick Durham, Alaska Fairbanks. Probably not in a million years, but his kids are still in Bozeman and seem to be really successful. His family may want him to come home. He's turned around that Alaska Fairbanks program. He is MSU's winningest head coach and was the Big Sky's winningest head coach until a few weeks ago when Randy Rahe took over. Of course Durham also has the most losses in those categories too.
I doubt this will happen, but it would be pretty funny if both UM and MSU were to bring back former coaches in major sports within a year of each other. I tend to agree on Sprinkle too, he only stayed for one year as an assistant under Huse before heading back to California and appears to like it there. Perhaps a head coaching job would entice him to make the move though.



mslacat
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 6069
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:12 am
Contact:

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by mslacat » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Bigby-Williams signed with Huse after assistant coach Haslam spotted him in England. Huse was fired that spring, Haslam was retained by Fish, Bigby honored scholarship with MSU (he had no other offers) when Fish got the job. He showed up at MSU, but was ruled ineligible by the NCAA. Haslam placed him at Gillette with the idea of him bouncing back to MSU. He did not. Whether Huse was here or Fish the result would have been the same as far as Bigby-Williams goes.



bobcat99
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4415
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by bobcat99 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:06 am

MSU is one of the few teams in the Big Sky that has a player with a legitimate shot at the NBA. And we still suck. Fish has obviously recruited some good players, but by and large, he's been bad.

I mean, we signed a guy who was shooting under 40% from the field in JUCO! That's terrible. We don't have any post play. None. I get that it's hard to find good posts, but I don't want excuses, I want results. His coaching style also isn't conducive to getting big guys. We just run around and chuck up 3's...and I like 3's! I understand that basketball is changing, but at the very least we need a rim protector. Sam battles his ass off, but he's not a rim protector. Teams can score at will inside on us. It's awful.

Fish will either be fired this year or won't be extended next year. Dude is done. Fin. Over.



wapiti
BobcatNation Team Captain
Posts: 728
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:04 am

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by wapiti » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:43 am

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
msu_agfan wrote:It seems we/they/He needs to think outside the box (based on the past 20 years). Does anyone know of any serious available coaches that would actually make a difference to our culture and end results? I'm asking to see if there even is another coach out there who would want us..... good grief, yeah I just said that. How about someone have any hypothetical candidates, ideal, yet not real candidates to get the conversation going?
If Fish is let go. Any speculation on my part is just for entertainment purposes only. Chances are, it will be someone we've never heard of and someone Costello knows. Here's a few names-again for entertainment purposes only:

Carson Cunningham, Carroll College. His record at Carroll is extremely impressive and he turned that program around. Granted, Carroll is probably the easiest program in the Frontier Conference to turn around. He played at Oregon State for one year and then at Purdue for Gene Keady before having a modest pro career. http://carrollathletics.com/coaches.asp ... 9&path=mbb

Danny Sprinkle, Cal State Fullerton assistant. Sprinkle will be mentioned every time the MSU job is open until he dies. He's an assistant at Cal State Fullerton now. I kind of have the feeling he likes being in California and won't have any interest in the job.

Mick Durham, Alaska Fairbanks. Probably not in a million years, but his kids are still in Bozeman and seem to be really successful. His family may want him to come home. He's turned around that Alaska Fairbanks program. He is MSU's winningest head coach and was the Big Sky's winningest head coach until a few weeks ago when Randy Rahe took over. Of course Durham also has the most losses in those categories too.
Would John Stockton be interested????
Just his name alone would attract good recruits.



bobcat99
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 4415
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:11 am

Re: Time for Fish to go!

Post by bobcat99 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:55 am

wapiti wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:
msu_agfan wrote:It seems we/they/He needs to think outside the box (based on the past 20 years). Does anyone know of any serious available coaches that would actually make a difference to our culture and end results? I'm asking to see if there even is another coach out there who would want us..... good grief, yeah I just said that. How about someone have any hypothetical candidates, ideal, yet not real candidates to get the conversation going?
If Fish is let go. Any speculation on my part is just for entertainment purposes only. Chances are, it will be someone we've never heard of and someone Costello knows. Here's a few names-again for entertainment purposes only:

Carson Cunningham, Carroll College. His record at Carroll is extremely impressive and he turned that program around. Granted, Carroll is probably the easiest program in the Frontier Conference to turn around. He played at Oregon State for one year and then at Purdue for Gene Keady before having a modest pro career. http://carrollathletics.com/coaches.asp ... 9&path=mbb

Danny Sprinkle, Cal State Fullerton assistant. Sprinkle will be mentioned every time the MSU job is open until he dies. He's an assistant at Cal State Fullerton now. I kind of have the feeling he likes being in California and won't have any interest in the job.

Mick Durham, Alaska Fairbanks. Probably not in a million years, but his kids are still in Bozeman and seem to be really successful. His family may want him to come home. He's turned around that Alaska Fairbanks program. He is MSU's winningest head coach and was the Big Sky's winningest head coach until a few weeks ago when Randy Rahe took over. Of course Durham also has the most losses in those categories too.
Would John Stockton be interested????
Just his name alone would attract good recruits.
I can't imagine many things he would hate more than being a collegiate HC.



Post Reply