Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by phantom » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:15 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
phantom wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:
This is where we're at right now. I truly believe this team would struggle and probably lose to Carroll College.
This thread has officially jumped the shark.
Why? You don't think this MSU basketball team would struggle and possibly lose to a 26-5 Carroll Saints team? Look at the scores between common opponents. There's quite a few and they indicate a very competitive match up. On a neutral court I think Carroll would win.
No, I don't think this team would lose to the Carroll Saints. I think you have repeatedly shown in this thread that you don't understand the difference between what makes a kid a Division I recruit and makes a kid a good high school player who can be a good NAIA player. It doesn't mean the NAIA kids can't play or aren't good, but there is a reason they ended up where they did. Doesn't mean that a kid can't go there and develop or blossom, but in general, there is a noticeable difference between the two levels.



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 pm

phantom wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:
phantom wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:
This is where we're at right now. I truly believe this team would struggle and probably lose to Carroll College.
This thread has officially jumped the shark.
Why? You don't think this MSU basketball team would struggle and possibly lose to a 26-5 Carroll Saints team? Look at the scores between common opponents. There's quite a few and they indicate a very competitive match up. On a neutral court I think Carroll would win.
No, I don't think this team would lose to the Carroll Saints. I think you have repeatedly shown in this thread that you don't understand the difference between what makes a kid a Division I recruit and makes a kid a good high school player who can be a good NAIA player. It doesn't mean the NAIA kids can't play or aren't good, but there is a reason they ended up where they did. Doesn't mean that a kid can't go there and develop or blossom, but in general, there is a noticeable difference between the two levels.
Do you think all the players we have are legit D-1 recruits? Why are we about to finish 13-19? Why did Carrroll lose to Montana by 11 and MSU lost to Montana by almost 30? Why did our team of D-1 recruits almost lose to MSU-Northern at home? `Why does our team full of D-1 recruits routinely get blown out by 20 or more?



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by phantom » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:12 pm

First off, you're comparing scores from exhibition games which is beyond ridiculous. The kids we have, which ones aren't Division I players? Bobcats "routinely getting beaten by 20" ... if 5 times in 30 games is routinely, then sure. Remember, they are playing against other Division I players. Those guys are on scholarship also.
I'm not going to pretend the Bobcats haven't had a miserable season. But that doesn't mean they are below an NAIA level team. That is just silly.



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:27 pm

phantom wrote:First off, you're comparing scores from exhibition games which is beyond ridiculous. The kids we have, which ones aren't Division I players? Bobcats "routinely getting beaten by 20" ... if 5 times in 30 games is routinely, then sure. Remember, they are playing against other Division I players. Those guys are on scholarship also.
I'm not going to pretend the Bobcats haven't had a miserable season. But that doesn't mean they are below an NAIA level team. That is just silly.
Let's see them play Kentucky again. See how much progess has been made and hope Calipari shows the same compassion he showed Fish his first year. Me thinks you don't understand what the record says the coach is...



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by phantom » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:19 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Let's see them play Kentucky again. See how much progess has been made and hope Calipari shows the same compassion he showed Fish his first year. Me thinks you don't understand what the record says the coach is...
Me thinks you don't understand how bad the program was when the coach took over the first year. After three years which everyone was in agreement there was progress, this has been a miserable year. If you're going to judge progress by a game against Kentucky, me thinks there's a lot you don't understand about college basketball. Which Big Sky program do you think is going to measure up to Kentucky???



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:21 pm

phantom wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
Let's see them play Kentucky again. See how much progess has been made and hope Calipari shows the same compassion he showed Fish his first year. Me thinks you don't understand what the record says the coach is...
Me thinks you don't understand how bad the program was when the coach took over the first year. After three years which everyone was in agreement there was progress, this has been a miserable year. If you're going to judge progress by a game against Kentucky, me thinks there's a lot you don't understand about college basketball. Which Big Sky program do you think is going to measure up to Kentucky???
You. Are. An. Apologist. Our school misses those like Lou. Great Bobcats as players and went into adminstration. Then off to Wazzu and Fresno. You suck the hind tit.



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by BobcatDel » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:04 am

PapaG wrote: We have video in this thread of a 5'10" Class C PG with a routine spin move finishing a layup 2' under the rim and people think that's a D1 player that is going to improve either the Cats or the Griz. I could dunk and so could half of my HS team and none of us were athletic enough or had the size for anything above NAIA, which 3 of our AA team eventually played and two of those went to a JC first.

OK... I will bite. Have you seen the kid play in person? Or are your comments solely based on a clip outtake? Did you see the game? If you have seen him play multiple times through the last couple years... well I will accept your comments are well founded but otherwise I will disagree. Not much "routine" about this kids play.

What's dunking got to do with athletic ability? I have seen and played with big guys that can dunk but couldn't tie their shoes and sure the hell weren't college material. Dunking is the last thing I would judge a 6' point guard on. And he may indeed be able to dunk it but I have never even seen him try.... and I am now asking why would he? I guess to get an oooh and aaaah from the fans... fun to try in a game isn't it but meaningless in recruiting a point guard. Is your point on the spin move that he should have "slammed it home" to impress you to get that D1 rating?

Where do you get 5'10"? State program lists him at 6'. So for kicks and giggles, lets just say he will reach 6' or 6'1" as he "finishes out". You do know 3 of top 5 scorers in NCAA this year are under 6'. And 3 of the top 5 assist leaders are only 6'1". 6'1" Harding from Weber did OK against the Cats last week. 6'1" Rorie from UM seems to do OK in the Big Sky. 5'11" Colbert was a contributor for the cats. 6'1" Stockton seemed to have a "rather nice" NBA career. So yeah I would take a shot at a small point guard.

How many double doubles did you get while dunking the ball? That is the norm for Malatare in his non-dunking mode. Triple doubles and a quadruple double have been recorded this year by the kid. Did you get any of those while dunking away? While busy dunking were you able to press the full court the full game... and how many steals did you record? I don't recall ever seeing less than 3 steals in a game from Malatare and he applies a constant intense intense pressure on the guards bringing up the ball such that they will move across the court away from him (at least the better coaches quickly pick that up and switch to the side opposite him). Watch a video of his steals and the quickness of his hands... his reactions and quickness are impressive.

Not much on height myself, but I do know that he was the leader on two State championship teams. Last year (2017) Arlee started one kid that was 6' tall (the rest shorter) and Manhattan Christian started everyone over 6' including three kids at 6'3", 6'5", 6'5" (and they could dunk too!). Do you think there is something to the game like intense defense, rebounding, quickness, shooting ability, play making ability, screening out, passing, team play, fast pace, etc.? Malatare was the field general on the 2017 and 2018 team.

Hard to measure a heart. But the kid eats, sleeps, breaths and lives BB. His work ethic is harder than I can recall any high school kid I have seen. One of the best team players I have seen as he really lifts the rest of the team up with his play... which is something "hotshots" often don't do. Yet when the game starts getting on the line he seems to have another gear. How do you measure that grit and fight and desire in selecting a recruit... sometime you don't find that out until you get him in house for awhile. I don't think that is a risk with Malatare.

Go watch him if they have the all classes all star game this year. I suspect he will stack up against any guard in B, A, AA but I will wait and see.

Always a risk on a small school, small kid but I would take a shot at him. With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, I dang sure would have taken the kid over Bonton and Lassi. The Cats trouble is that their most important needs are the inside big guys and the guard position is less of a concern right at this moment.

Wouldn't it be fun if he really does get to walk on with the Griz, as currently reported on the radio and other sources, and the whole community of Arlee shows up for the Cat-Griz game (as if they need more fans to fill the stadium).

Just my opinion and I have been known to be wrong before, just ask the wife.



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by phantom » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:43 am

Cat Grad wrote:
phantom wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
Let's see them play Kentucky again. See how much progess has been made and hope Calipari shows the same compassion he showed Fish his first year. Me thinks you don't understand what the record says the coach is...
Me thinks you don't understand how bad the program was when the coach took over the first year. After three years which everyone was in agreement there was progress, this has been a miserable year. If you're going to judge progress by a game against Kentucky, me thinks there's a lot you don't understand about college basketball. Which Big Sky program do you think is going to measure up to Kentucky???
You. Are. An. Apologist. Our school misses those like Lou. Great Bobcats as players and went into adminstration. Then off to Wazzu and Fresno. You suck the hind tit.
I'm not apologizing for anything. This year has been miserable. You are clueless about college basketball. You were the one that brought up Kentucky for goodness sakes. I'm sure there have been Bobcat greats that have gone and done good things. 10-15 years from now, you'll be talking about Hall and Frey as Bobcat greats. You can talk about this year and say you don't think Fish can turn it around ... okay, I don't agree at this point, if he comes back and things aren't better, then I'd agree. But, when your argument is to play Kentucky to judge progress, that's just plain basketball stupid.



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by PapaG » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:29 am

BobcatDel wrote:
PapaG wrote: We have video in this thread of a 5'10" Class C PG with a routine spin move finishing a layup 2' under the rim and people think that's a D1 player that is going to improve either the Cats or the Griz. I could dunk and so could half of my HS team and none of us were athletic enough or had the size for anything above NAIA, which 3 of our AA team eventually played and two of those went to a JC first.

OK... I will bite. Have you seen the kid play in person? Or are your comments solely based on a clip outtake? Did you see the game? If you have seen him play multiple times through the last couple years... well I will accept your comments are well founded but otherwise I will disagree. Not much "routine" about this kids play.

What's dunking got to do with athletic ability? I have seen and played with big guys that can dunk but couldn't tie their shoes and sure the hell weren't college material. Dunking is the last thing I would judge a 6' point guard on. And he may indeed be able to dunk it but I have never even seen him try.... and I am now asking why would he? I guess to get an oooh and aaaah from the fans... fun to try in a game isn't it but meaningless in recruiting a point guard. Is your point on the spin move that he should have "slammed it home" to impress you to get that D1 rating?

Where do you get 5'10"? State program lists him at 6'. So for kicks and giggles, lets just say he will reach 6' or 6'1" as he "finishes out". You do know 3 of top 5 scorers in NCAA this year are under 6'. And 3 of the top 5 assist leaders are only 6'1". 6'1" Harding from Weber did OK against the Cats last week. 6'1" Rorie from UM seems to do OK in the Big Sky. 5'11" Colbert was a contributor for the cats. 6'1" Stockton seemed to have a "rather nice" NBA career. So yeah I would take a shot at a small point guard.

How many double doubles did you get while dunking the ball? That is the norm for Malatare in his non-dunking mode. Triple doubles and a quadruple double have been recorded this year by the kid. Did you get any of those while dunking away? While busy dunking were you able to press the full court the full game... and how many steals did you record? I don't recall ever seeing less than 3 steals in a game from Malatare and he applies a constant intense intense pressure on the guards bringing up the ball such that they will move across the court away from him (at least the better coaches quickly pick that up and switch to the side opposite him). Watch a video of his steals and the quickness of his hands... his reactions and quickness are impressive.

Not much on height myself, but I do know that he was the leader on two State championship teams. Last year (2017) Arlee started one kid that was 6' tall (the rest shorter) and Manhattan Christian started everyone over 6' including three kids at 6'3", 6'5", 6'5" (and they could dunk too!). Do you think there is something to the game like intense defense, rebounding, quickness, shooting ability, play making ability, screening out, passing, team play, fast pace, etc.? Malatare was the field general on the 2017 and 2018 team.

Hard to measure a heart. But the kid eats, sleeps, breaths and lives BB. His work ethic is harder than I can recall any high school kid I have seen. One of the best team players I have seen as he really lifts the rest of the team up with his play... which is something "hotshots" often don't do. Yet when the game starts getting on the line he seems to have another gear. How do you measure that grit and fight and desire in selecting a recruit... sometime you don't find that out until you get him in house for awhile. I don't think that is a risk with Malatare.

Go watch him if they have the all classes all star game this year. I suspect he will stack up against any guard in B, A, AA but I will wait and see.

Always a risk on a small school, small kid but I would take a shot at him. With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, I dang sure would have taken the kid over Bonton and Lassi. The Cats trouble is that their most important needs are the inside big guys and the guard position is less of a concern right at this moment.

Wouldn't it be fun if he really does get to walk on with the Griz, as currently reported on the radio and other sources, and the whole community of Arlee shows up for the Cat-Griz game (as if they need more fans to fill the stadium).

Just my opinion and I have been known to be wrong before, just ask the wife.
I have no doubt he will stack up well against AA/A/B players this late spring in the All-Star tournaments, and it would be awesome if he gets a walk-on spot at UM and eventually some minutes. I always pull for Montana HS players. I was one myself, and had a dad who played for the Griz for two years in the 60s and an uncle who was a 3-year starter at PG for MSU in the 70s. I grew up around Montana HS basketball, I just happened to be better at baseball and liked it more, so I only played basketball during basketball season and after I stopped playing football, the fall too in pick-up games. That's not the point of this thread, though. There are posters here making the case that Montana players, or at least this is how I read it, are being intentionally ignored by both UM and MSU in favor of out-of-state players, and I find that line of thinking ridiculous. As if Fish and even DeCuire are going to pass up local players, on cheaper scholarships, who will make their teams better, and instead give those scholarships to out-of-state players who are worse than the Montana HS players? That makes no sense.

As for watching the clips, yes, that's all I've seen, but looking at the Arlee kid's game compared to say, JR Camel's or even Skyview's Kendal Manuel's coming out of HS, it's not even close in terms of what it required to be an impact player in the Big Sky, let alone a player who can help elevate a program to higher levels. I don't want it to seem like I'm crapping on the Arlee kid, I'm not, but I've seen this same thing over and over again with undersized Montana PGs, and then you get them in the gym at even Shroyer and they are just another good but not great dude. Ty Elkin from Red Lodge is another good example of this, and he was an all-time great Montana HS PG from a B school who was a defensive liability in the Big Sky and ended up playing at MSU-B. He used to play with us in Shroyer and was very, very good player, but D2 was his ceiling and he couldn't see the court for what were decent MSU Bobcat teams. I also like that Malatare is a winner, and hope he does get to walk-on at UM, but in-state walk-ons aren't elevating the MSU program, and UM is already an elite Big Sky program.


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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by KIX » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:44 am

Why the infatuation with Malatare? Yes, he is a good player with a tremendous amount of desire and BB IQ but there are several point guards in the state that are on the same level as he, if not better. You have to look at the system as well. Arlee (and any native reservation team, for that matter) tend to be very unorganized, undisciplined and turnover prone. That is what next level college coaches don't want to deal with...having to change the mentality from a random system to more disciplined style of play. How many of the great native American players have/have not succeeded at the college level, is another question? Other than JR Camel and possibly Johnathan Takes Enemy how many have actually enrolled in college and played? For instance, the good point guard from, I believe Box Elder - Brandon The Boy , a couple years back signed with Rocky but never saw the court...they literally disappear into nowhere...that's a historical risk on a college program's part. Malatare's stats are so blown out of proportion as well. Arlee spends the whole year playing cupcake's in their district and division that are the equivalent of an 8th grade/JV squad - often blowing them out by 20, 30, 40 points. Surely he could function at any high school level just on his talent but, realistically, he is no more talented than any other First Team point guard at any other level. His motor and IQ are no different than other top guards throughout the state.



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by allcat » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:57 pm

KIX wrote:Why the infatuation with Malatare? Yes, he is a good player with a tremendous amount of desire and BB IQ but there are several point guards in the state that are on the same level as he, if not better. You have to look at the system as well. Arlee (and any native reservation team, for that matter) tend to be very unorganized, undisciplined and turnover prone. That is what next level college coaches don't want to deal with...having to change the mentality from a random system to more disciplined style of play. How many of the great native American players have/have not succeeded at the college level, is another question? Other than JR Camel and possibly Johnathan Takes Enemy how many have actually enrolled in college and played? For instance, the good point guard from, I believe Box Elder - Brandon The Boy , a couple years back signed with Rocky but never saw the court...they literally disappear into nowhere...that's a historical risk on a college program's part. Malatare's stats are so blown out of proportion as well. Arlee spends the whole year playing cupcake's in their district and division that are the equivalent of an 8th grade/JV squad - often blowing them out by 20, 30, 40 points. Surely he could function at any high school level just on his talent but, realistically, he is no more talented than any other First Team point guard at any other level. His motor and IQ are no different than other top guards throughout the state.
Your type of statement is what buried Mick Durham. He said essentially the same thing and got crucified.


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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by catsack » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:29 pm

KIX wrote:Why the infatuation with Malatare? Yes, he is a good player with a tremendous amount of desire and BB IQ but there are several point guards in the state that are on the same level as he, if not better. You have to look at the system as well. Arlee (and any native reservation team, for that matter) tend to be very unorganized, undisciplined and turnover prone. That is what next level college coaches don't want to deal with...having to change the mentality from a random system to more disciplined style of play. How many of the great native American players have/have not succeeded at the college level, is another question? Other than JR Camel and possibly Johnathan Takes Enemy how many have actually enrolled in college and played? For instance, the good point guard from, I believe Box Elder - Brandon The Boy , a couple years back signed with Rocky but never saw the court...they literally disappear into nowhere...that's a historical risk on a college program's part. Malatare's stats are so blown out of proportion as well. Arlee spends the whole year playing cupcake's in their district and division that are the equivalent of an 8th grade/JV squad - often blowing them out by 20, 30, 40 points. Surely he could function at any high school level just on his talent but, realistically, he is no more talented than any other First Team point guard at any other level. His motor and IQ are no different than other top guards throughout the state.
Arlee and Plains played for the divisional championship, they are from the same district. The last two years have been Arlee and Manhattan Christian playing for the state championship, they are from the same division. I’m guessing you must have a kid in AA that’s not getting recruited. Most people didn’t know who J R Camel was , before he went to Hellgate. No doubt in my mind Phillip could put up the same numbers at any one of the AA schools in Missoula . Shoot if you can get him to walk on what do you have to loose ?



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by PapaG » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:28 pm

catsack wrote: Most people didn’t know who J R Camel was , before he went to Hellgate. No doubt in my mind Phillip could put up the same numbers at any one of the AA schools in Missoula . Shoot if you can get him to walk on what do you have to loose ?
100% false on "nobody knew who JR Camel was before he went to Hellgate." He went to Hellgate to play against better competition than he was getting in Ronan and did so to play for Eric Hayes and get the stamp of approval from Hayes that he was worthy of a UM scholarship from Blaine Taylor. He was already well-known when he was at Ronan.

As for Malatare getting the same numbers in AA, that's easy to say and impossible to prove. I don't see anyone saying the kid can't play, but it's Class C ball, any decent Montana HS players is going to dominate it, and as previously posted, it was in a system that allows for individual play.

By the way, if Fish and DeCuire are intentionally ignoring these D1 Montana HS players who are better than the out-of-state guys, why aren't programs from other states swooping up these guys and instead making them play in the Frontier Conference or walking on at UM or MSU?


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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by catsack » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:36 pm

PapaG wrote:
catsack wrote: Most people didn’t know who J R Camel was , before he went to Hellgate. No doubt in my mind Phillip could put up the same numbers at any one of the AA schools in Missoula . Shoot if you can get him to walk on what do you have to loose ?
100% false on "nobody knew who JR Camel was before he went to Hellgate." He went to Hellgate to play against better competition than he was getting in Ronan and did so to play for Eric Hayes and get the stamp of approval from Hayes that he was worthy of a UM scholarship from Blaine Taylor. He was already well-known when he was at Ronan.

As for Malatare getting the same numbers in AA, that's easy to say and impossible to prove. I don't see anyone saying the kid can't play, but it's Class C ball, any decent Montana HS players is going to dominate it, and as previously posted, it was in a system that allows for individual play.

By the way, if Fish and DeCuire are intentionally ignoring these D1 Montana HS players who are better than the out-of-state guys, why aren't programs from other states swooping up these guys and instead making them play in the Frontier Conference or walking on at UM or MSU?
Camel played at Mission class B if I remember correctly! As of right now I believe there’s more Mt kids in pac 12 than the big sky! Eastern and Gonzaga both showed interest in him how far that went I don’t know! The price you’re getting him for is worth the chance. I’ve watched him play against J R pretty dam good game!



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by PapaG » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:07 pm

catsack wrote: Camel played at Mission class B if I remember correctly! As of right now I believe there’s more Mt kids in pac 12 than the big sky! Eastern and Gonzaga both showed interest in him how far that went I don’t know! The price you’re getting him for is worth the chance. I’ve watched him play against J R pretty dam good game!
St. Ignatius was where Camel played but he lived in Ronan. Odd. Then he moved to Hellgate for his senior season so he could play AA ball.

I'll just have to disagree and stick to my belief that this Arlee kid is someone who isn't a solid Big Sky prospect. He's turning the ball over 4 times a game in Class C and he's not going to be an elite scorer at any D1 school since he struggles at ~30% shooting the HS three pointer and isn't an elite FT shooter. His 2pt. % being near 60% tells me a lot of his FGs made are on layups and other shots close to the rim that he's not going to get against taller players.

http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/phillip ... -stats.htm
As of right now I believe there’s more Mt kids in pac 12 than the big sky!
That's an interesting fact, if true, but it doesn't really mean anything other than those players were Pac 12 players in terms of how they were viewed by coaches. It has zero impact on the other players and how they are viewed. Tinkle and Manuel could be from New York and it really wouldn't matter other than it shows that Montana has put out some Pac 12 players in those two players, which has always been the case every 5 years or so.
Last edited by PapaG on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by PapaG » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:14 pm

allcat wrote:
KIX wrote:Why the infatuation with Malatare? Yes, he is a good player with a tremendous amount of desire and BB IQ but there are several point guards in the state that are on the same level as he, if not better. You have to look at the system as well. Arlee (and any native reservation team, for that matter) tend to be very unorganized, undisciplined and turnover prone. That is what next level college coaches don't want to deal with...having to change the mentality from a random system to more disciplined style of play. How many of the great native American players have/have not succeeded at the college level, is another question? Other than JR Camel and possibly Johnathan Takes Enemy how many have actually enrolled in college and played? For instance, the good point guard from, I believe Box Elder - Brandon The Boy , a couple years back signed with Rocky but never saw the court...they literally disappear into nowhere...that's a historical risk on a college program's part. Malatare's stats are so blown out of proportion as well. Arlee spends the whole year playing cupcake's in their district and division that are the equivalent of an 8th grade/JV squad - often blowing them out by 20, 30, 40 points. Surely he could function at any high school level just on his talent but, realistically, he is no more talented than any other First Team point guard at any other level. His motor and IQ are no different than other top guards throughout the state.
Your type of statement is what buried Mick Durham. He said essentially the same thing and got crucified.
Mick knew which in-state players could help him win at MSU and which one's could not. Hell, he played Montana HS ball and then college so he of all people should know the shortcomings of Montana HS basketball and which kids can help win in the Big Sky.

He won his only Big Sky tournament with a team that started two Montana HS players, Leachman and Hatler, and had two more who played roles off the bench, Danny Sprinkle, who basically won that championship game against Weber, and Dan Sullivan. That doesn't mean he's going to take Montana HS kids that are lesser players. If you can't help a Big Sky team win, go play NAIA ball. There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing in the Frontier Conference, but it's not like even those teams with Montana HS players are winning national titles at that level, is it?


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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by 4everacatfan » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:30 pm

Did this kid ever play AAU? Last summer I saw a lot of the best Class of 2018 Montana players play for Montana Select and Idaho Select in a Seattle tournament was this Arlee kid with them? Don't remember his name on the roster. Those teams were good but they did both struggle against some of the D1 players from other states.



KIX
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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by KIX » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:44 pm

4everacatfan wrote:Did this kid ever play AAU? Last summer I saw a lot of the best Class of 2018 Montana players play for Montana Select and Idaho Select in a Seattle tournament was this Arlee kid with them? Don't remember his name on the roster. Those teams were good but they did both struggle against some of the D1 players from other states.
He wasn't on any AAU summer teams...



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by KIX » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:56 pm

catsack wrote:
KIX wrote:Why the infatuation with Malatare? Yes, he is a good player with a tremendous amount of desire and BB IQ but there are several point guards in the state that are on the same level as he, if not better. You have to look at the system as well. Arlee (and any native reservation team, for that matter) tend to be very unorganized, undisciplined and turnover prone. That is what next level college coaches don't want to deal with...having to change the mentality from a random system to more disciplined style of play. How many of the great native American players have/have not succeeded at the college level, is another question? Other than JR Camel and possibly Johnathan Takes Enemy how many have actually enrolled in college and played? For instance, the good point guard from, I believe Box Elder - Brandon The Boy , a couple years back signed with Rocky but never saw the court...they literally disappear into nowhere...that's a historical risk on a college program's part. Malatare's stats are so blown out of proportion as well. Arlee spends the whole year playing cupcake's in their district and division that are the equivalent of an 8th grade/JV squad - often blowing them out by 20, 30, 40 points. Surely he could function at any high school level just on his talent but, realistically, he is no more talented than any other First Team point guard at any other level. His motor and IQ are no different than other top guards throughout the state.
Arlee and Plains played for the divisional championship, they are from the same district. The last two years have been Arlee and Manhattan Christian playing for the state championship, they are from the same division. I’m guessing you must have a kid in AA that’s not getting recruited. Most people didn’t know who J R Camel was , before he went to Hellgate. No doubt in my mind Phillip could put up the same numbers at any one of the AA schools in Missoula . Shoot if you can get him to walk on what do you have to loose ?
Thanks for making my point...Arlee dominated plains in the divisional chipper and MC came back through loosers bracket to dominate them as well. I'm also referring to the St Regis's, Lone Peaks and whoever else those teams beat by 40 during the year...there is a handful of legit Class C teams these last couple years. But, by all means, give Malatare and Bellach a shot at DI...first thing I'll be interested in is if they can hold up on the defensive end like they do offensively in high school.



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Re: Recruiting of Montana D-1 Basketball Players

Post by catsack » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:31 pm

PapaG wrote:
catsack wrote: Camel played at Mission class B if I remember correctly! As of right now I believe there’s more Mt kids in pac 12 than the big sky! Eastern and Gonzaga both showed interest in him how far that went I don’t know! The price you’re getting him for is worth the chance. I’ve watched him play against J R pretty dam good game!
St. Ignatius was where Camel played but he lived in Ronan. Odd. Then he moved to Hellgate for his senior season so he could play AA ball.

I'll just have to disagree and stick to my belief that this Arlee kid is someone who isn't a solid Big Sky prospect. He's turning the ball over 4 times a game in Class C and he's not going to be an elite scorer at any D1 school since he struggles at ~30% shooting the HS three pointer and isn't an elite FT shooter. His 2pt. % being near 60% tells me a lot of his FGs made are on layups and other shots close to the rim that he's not going to get against taller players.

http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/phillip ... -stats.htm
As of right now I believe there’s more Mt kids in pac 12 than the big sky!
That's an interesting fact, if true, but it doesn't really mean anything other than those players were Pac 12 players in terms of how they were viewed by coaches. It has zero impact on the other players and how they are viewed. Tinkle and Manuel could be from New York and it really wouldn't matter other than it shows that Montana has put out some Pac 12 players in those two players, which has always been the case every 5 years or so.
I guess T D sees the potential or he wouldn’t have offered him a walk on spot! Only time will tell!



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