The Jock Niche Redux

El Profesor · Post by **El Profesor** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:21 pm

.

While enjoying happy-hour wines with friends this afternoon in downtown Bozeman, I came across a discarded copy of today's Bozeman Chronicle, which contained a thought-provoking opinion piece related to MSU athletics. I possess neither the time nor the expertise to introduce BNers to an electronic version of a compelling "Commentary" from this July-5 edition of the Chronicle.

John Baden, chairman of FREE and chairman of Gallatin Writers, puts forth the argument that the MSU athletics program should focus more on character development and on the development of human capital, while focusing less on winning percentage, as its new motto. While I agree with nearly everything that Baden claims and/or suggests, I have one minor objection and one concern.

My minor objection is that his article seems to imply that, in the past, the MSU athletics program has not hired, nor has it recruited, with human character being one of the key components in any hiring or signing decision.

My concern is that his overall idea, while noble, is inconsistent with the incentive structures that are in place for the MSU athletics' administrators and coaches ... nor is it wholly consistent with what a vocal, important, wealthy constituent generally hopes for from its university's sports teams ... namely, wins (on the field or on the court).

The strongest claims of his article are that:

(a) "Aside from Montana residents and the occasional student-athlete with a strong interest in our area, [MSU] recruiters must dredge to find and attract inherently risky candidates" -- whether you agree or disagree with his statement, it unquestionably is a dig on our current body of student-athletes,

(b) "As the data make clear, sometimes dramatically, some of these kids do not adjust well to Montana" -- a point that I've been suggesting for a long time, along with the idea that even more 'kids' are reluctant to even attend a Division-I university in Montana in the first place,

and

(c) "Character development [and the development of human capital] should be [the dimensions of winning] that we emphasize".

If any BN administrator or poster has the means by which to post Baden's opinions, I'm sure that his column would generate some useful discussion among MSU's most die-hard athletic supporters. (His arguments are not unique to MSU.)

I am tempted to re-type the article in its entirety, but I'll wait a few days to see whether any of you with access to the Chronicle's on-line version can post the article first. It's pretty solid stuff.

Post by **kmax** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:41 pm

Here you go:

COMMENTARY
The jock niche redux

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:41 pm

I prefer this study, such as it is, and like to think we're a little better in Bozo than the gist of what has been said on the subject so far--and it bugs the hell out of me that the one's insinuating several things without flat assed coming out and stating "MSU is recruiting too many African American kids for our lily white asses to appreciate because it's preventing our Montana kids from playing." It's almost to the point that we're going to see some dip psych or sociology "prof" do a comparative de facto "study" correlating what happened in Duke to our kids. What a crock. Better make sure he uses a chi square...

http://clearinghouse.missouriwestern.ed ... ts/403.asp

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:20 pm

I have to admit that until this thread I had not read the article in todays 'Chronicle'. There are regular 'Commentary' writers in the 'Chronicle', some of whom I read, and some who I avoid simply because I will never agree with their personal slant (no different than the way I view posts on an internet board).

Not that I don't have an open mind and don't care about views different than mine, but I have a professional business to run and have other priorities.

This writer is on my 'skip it' list.

Any university community is going to have its share of pompous educators, but this guy goes overboard in reminding people how damn important he is (read the first paragraph of his article again).

I don't know who 'FREE' is, but my guess is the 'F' stands for 'Friends' of.................................

He probably has no more knowledge about university athletics than the 'society' page editor, but likes to espouse his spew.

Asked for comments on the article? I think I just gave mine.

PortlandCat · Post by **PortlandCat** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:31 pm

I think a professor at George Washington University wrote that same article a year ago. They will never compete and the best and brightest have a better opportunity elsewhere, hmmm.

Following the same logic, one would argue that it is not worth pursuing an education at MSU because the best and brightest have an opportunity to go to Harvard (and all of the good profs are making big salaries at Stanford).

I think he has the solution, drop down to DIII, no sholorships, compete with the east coast preppie elite and get over it.

Certainly athletics frequently becomes too important, but open your eyes. When I was in school, a student killed two others in the dorms. He was from Great Falls. Bad things happen and sometimes they happen to kids from good families / neighborhoods.

This is not a black / white issue and is more than likely not an athletics issue. This is a societal issue, clean up the drugs, make it unattractive to do them and more unattractive to sell them, and this goes away. Great kids and thugs come out of both good and bad neighborhoods. Mr. Baden get over yourself.

grizdoc · Post by **grizdoc** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:31 pm

GOKATS wrote: I don't know who 'FREE' is, but my guess is the 'F' stands for 'Friends' of.................................

FREE = Foundation for Research on Economics & the Environment

http://www.free-eco.org/

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:38 pm

Freaken Frogs...

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:58 pm

grizdoc wrote:
GOKATS wrote: I don't know who 'FREE' is, but my guess is the 'F' stands for 'Friends' of.................................

FREE = Foundation for Research on Economics & the Environment

http://www.free-eco.org/

Sorry, worse than I had portrayed, more likely tied in with the Sonoran Institute and the 'Smart Growth' Coalition.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:27 pm

I think they are actually more of a pro-business group, aren't they? They seem to actually be on the conservative side of things, and tend to piss off the hard-core tree-huggers.

They seem to be a "incorporating capitalism into the environmental debate" kind of group.

In other words, I think they are the arch enemies of groups like the Sonoran Institute.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:27 am

He is Assuming:

1. We are not trying to build character now.
2. That by the time we get them at 18 or 19 it is not too late?
3. Their teachers have them for 6 hours per day, friends 6 hours, coaches 4 hours, sleep 8 hours (generous); everyone would have to participate effectively.
5. We know something the rest of the world does not (ie. how do you do this)
6. That the character building process will continue (on it's own) after they leave MSU.
7. That they desire high character and agree they need improvement in that area.
8. THAT EVERYONE ELSE (OTHER SCHOOLS) IS DOING THE SAME BECAUSE IF IT COSTS US WINS YOU WILL HAVE A MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM ON YOUR HANDS.

LTown Cat · Post by **LTown Cat** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:04 am

PortlandCat wrote:Certainly athletics frequently becomes too important, but open your eyes. When I was in school, a student killed two others in the dorms. He was from Great Falls. Bad things happen and sometimes they happen to kids from good families / neighborhoods.

This is not a black / white issue and is more than likely not an athletics issue. This is a societal issue, clean up the drugs, make it unattractive to do them and more unattractive to sell them, and this goes away. Great kids and thugs come out of both good and bad neighborhoods. Mr. Baden get over yourself.

Good post. I agree 100%. There was also a shooting when I was young at Carroll College. I can't remember where the kid was from, but I know he was white.

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:52 am

LTown Cat wrote:
PortlandCat wrote:Certainly athletics frequently becomes too important, but open your eyes. When I was in school, a student killed two others in the dorms. He was from Great Falls. Bad things happen and sometimes they happen to kids from good families / neighborhoods.

This is not a black / white issue and is more than likely not an athletics issue. This is a societal issue, clean up the drugs, make it unattractive to do them and more unattractive to sell them, and this goes away. Great kids and thugs come out of both good and bad neighborhoods. Mr. Baden get over yourself.
Good post. I agree 100%. There was also a shooting when I was young at Carroll College. I can't remember where the kid was from, but I know he was white.

My favorite professor as a young undergraduate continually expressed his exasperation with pseudo-humanity-baffle-them-with-bullsheet "colleagues" (at least in their own estimation for they're the faculty members whom attempted to get the same amount for English, speech, etc. as the engineering and architecture professors) who was continually stressing we should never mistake intelligensia for academia. Older I get, more I understand and I continually read something like this and want to go pop a top on a cold one in defiance of them as they look down on our "cowboy culture" (that used to be the resident 'evil' they needed to purge from Bozo.)