SPEEDY DBs - incoming class

[coloradocat]

Here's how crazy Texas is: McMillan is faster than the fastest Montanan ever, yet he's ranked 26th in Texas THIS YEAR. McMillan's time would be 7th best in Florida this year and 5th best in California. Ryan Dierenfield from Skyview ran a 10.75 in his first meet of the season (and an 11.12 the second meet) for the fastest time in MT this season, but that would put him in a tie for 138th in Texas this year.

Montana rarely gets optimal weather for sprinters. Not that I’m saying Montana sprinters are in the same league of the most populated states. But there would be better prep times here if we had warmer temperatures.

OK sure, that's part of it. Times in MN and WI are also not good. My point was more about how crazy Texas is compared even to other (warm) states like Florida and California. 129 under 11 seconds in Florida this year so far, 191 in CA, 411 in TX.

If weather is the issue, indoor times should be similar. I'm pretty sure that isnt the case. I think a lot of it is culture. Bozeman (at the high school level) and MSU (at the collegiate level) are able to produce stars like Duncan Hamilton (fastest American ever in NCAA steeplechase) and Nathan Neil (Top 10 all time high schooler in human history in the 3000.) But Bozeman has never produced sprinters.

Texans also hold the all time records in boys 100, 200, 400, boys and girls 4x100, 4x200...but no records in distance or jumping.

Its not really the weather...its the culture & coaching.

Cold weather slows sprinters, across the board, down. That’s all I’m saying. Montana’s top times would probably be lower if we had warmer temperatures during track season.

Indoor sprints are for shorter distances. The indoor 200 typically has a full curve that isn’t as wide (sharper turn) and that is mainly why it isn’t as fast as outdoor 200 times. Same for 400.

It’s not colder weather and it’s not culture and coaching.

In today's world, it's not correct to say such things. But there's a reason Samoans aren't DBs, why Asians aren't O linemen, why Iowa farm boys aren't receivers. Biologic expression of genetics is a real thing. It's not a bad thing, it's just reality.

It only took a single page for this thread to start getting spicy. I look forward to the incoming arguments/chastisements! Yay offseason

[MSU01]

It only took a single page for this thread to start getting spicy. I look forward to the incoming arguments/chastisements! Yay offseason

I also wonder if the people who made the last few comments have seen photos of all three players being discussed in this thread.

[TomCat88]

Sprinters run faster in warm weather 70-80d than they do in cool 40-50s. The indoor 200 is slower due to the tighter arc of the curve. It’s self evident and logical.

[AFCAT]

Here's how crazy Texas is: McMillan is faster than the fastest Montanan ever, yet he's ranked 26th in Texas THIS YEAR. McMillan's time would be 7th best in Florida this year and 5th best in California. Ryan Dierenfield from Skyview ran a 10.75 in his first meet of the season (and an 11.12 the second meet) for the fastest time in MT this season, but that would put him in a tie for 138th in Texas this year.

Montana rarely gets optimal weather for sprinters. Not that I’m saying Montana sprinters are in the same league of the most populated states. But there would be better prep times here if we had warmer temperatures.

OK sure, that's part of it. Times in MN and WI are also not good. My point was more about how crazy Texas is compared even to other (warm) states like Florida and California. 129 under 11 seconds in Florida this year so far, 191 in CA, 411 in TX.

If weather is the issue, indoor times should be similar. I'm pretty sure that isnt the case. I think a lot of it is culture. Bozeman (at the high school level) and MSU (at the collegiate level) are able to produce stars like Duncan Hamilton (fastest American ever in NCAA steeplechase) and Nathan Neil (Top 10 all time high schooler in human history in the 3000.) But Bozeman has never produced sprinters.

Texans also hold the all time records in boys 100, 200, 400, boys and girls 4x100, 4x200...but no records in distance or jumping.

Its not really the weather...its the culture & coaching.

Cold weather slows sprinters, across the board, down. That’s all I’m saying. Montana’s top times would probably be lower if we had warmer temperatures during track season.

Indoor sprints are for shorter distances. The indoor 200 typically has a full curve that isn’t as wide (sharper turn) and that is mainly why it isn’t as fast as outdoor 200 times. Same for 400.

It’s not colder weather and it’s not culture and coaching.

In today's world, it's not correct to say such things. But there's a reason Samoans aren't DBs, why Asians aren't O linemen, why Iowa farm boys aren't receivers. Biologic expression of genetics is a real thing. It's not a bad thing, it's just reality.

Nice generalization and wrong on all accounts. Asia is a big place, you might want to look at a map, and the people that reside there come in all shapes and sizes. There is currently a young man of Polynesian descent that plays DB for the Cats. I’m sure there are Iowa farm boys that have played wide receiver.

[kennethnoisewater]

Here's how crazy Texas is: McMillan is faster than the fastest Montanan ever, yet he's ranked 26th in Texas THIS YEAR. McMillan's time would be 7th best in Florida this year and 5th best in California. Ryan Dierenfield from Skyview ran a 10.75 in his first meet of the season (and an 11.12 the second meet) for the fastest time in MT this season, but that would put him in a tie for 138th in Texas this year.

Montana rarely gets optimal weather for sprinters. Not that I’m saying Montana sprinters are in the same league of the most populated states. But there would be better prep times here if we had warmer temperatures.

OK sure, that's part of it. Times in MN and WI are also not good. My point was more about how crazy Texas is compared even to other (warm) states like Florida and California. 129 under 11 seconds in Florida this year so far, 191 in CA, 411 in TX.

If weather is the issue, indoor times should be similar. I'm pretty sure that isnt the case. I think a lot of it is culture. Bozeman (at the high school level) and MSU (at the collegiate level) are able to produce stars like Duncan Hamilton (fastest American ever in NCAA steeplechase) and Nathan Neil (Top 10 all time high schooler in human history in the 3000.) But Bozeman has never produced sprinters.

Texans also hold the all time records in boys 100, 200, 400, boys and girls 4x100, 4x200...but no records in distance or jumping.

Its not really the weather...its the culture & coaching.

Cold weather slows sprinters, across the board, down. That’s all I’m saying. Montana’s top times would probably be lower if we had warmer temperatures during track season.

Indoor sprints are for shorter distances. The indoor 200 typically has a full curve that isn’t as wide (sharper turn) and that is mainly why it isn’t as fast as outdoor 200 times. Same for 400.

It’s not colder weather and it’s not culture and coaching.

In today's world, it's not correct to say such things. But there's a reason Samoans aren't DBs, why Asians aren't O linemen, why Iowa farm boys aren't receivers. Biologic expression of genetics is a real thing. It's not a bad thing, it's just reality.

Nice generalization and wrong on all accounts. Asia is a big place, you might want to look at a map, and the people that reside there come in all shapes and sizes. There is currently a young man of Polynesian descent that plays DB for the Cats. I’m sure there are Iowa farm boys that have played wide receiver.

I can't believe we can't say it. We take so many posts so literally--I was going to say we're too black and white but that terminology might be misleading in this thread. I'm sure there are some people of Asian descent who are big enough to play O-line, but you have to admit it's not common. If you watch the 100M at a big time track meet, you're just not going to see as many white folks. Mac McClung won the dunk contest last year (I think) and I can't imagine there were very many people who didn't at least think to themselves "wow, white guy!" One of the fastest kids in America last year was a white kid from Idaho. Again, if you think 99% of people who saw him race weren't a little surprised on some level that he was a white kid, I'm just not sure you're being honest. Yeah, it's a generalization, but it's not just racist white people who make it.

[AFCAT]

Here's how crazy Texas is: McMillan is faster than the fastest Montanan ever, yet he's ranked 26th in Texas THIS YEAR. McMillan's time would be 7th best in Florida this year and 5th best in California. Ryan Dierenfield from Skyview ran a 10.75 in his first meet of the season (and an 11.12 the second meet) for the fastest time in MT this season, but that would put him in a tie for 138th in Texas this year.

Montana rarely gets optimal weather for sprinters. Not that I’m saying Montana sprinters are in the same league of the most populated states. But there would be better prep times here if we had warmer temperatures.

OK sure, that's part of it. Times in MN and WI are also not good. My point was more about how crazy Texas is compared even to other (warm) states like Florida and California. 129 under 11 seconds in Florida this year so far, 191 in CA, 411 in TX.

If weather is the issue, indoor times should be similar. I'm pretty sure that isnt the case. I think a lot of it is culture. Bozeman (at the high school level) and MSU (at the collegiate level) are able to produce stars like Duncan Hamilton (fastest American ever in NCAA steeplechase) and Nathan Neil (Top 10 all time high schooler in human history in the 3000.) But Bozeman has never produced sprinters.

Texans also hold the all time records in boys 100, 200, 400, boys and girls 4x100, 4x200...but no records in distance or jumping.

Its not really the weather...its the culture & coaching.

Cold weather slows sprinters, across the board, down. That’s all I’m saying. Montana’s top times would probably be lower if we had warmer temperatures during track season.

Indoor sprints are for shorter distances. The indoor 200 typically has a full curve that isn’t as wide (sharper turn) and that is mainly why it isn’t as fast as outdoor 200 times. Same for 400.

It’s not colder weather and it’s not culture and coaching.

In today's world, it's not correct to say such things. But there's a reason Samoans aren't DBs, why Asians aren't O linemen, why Iowa farm boys aren't receivers. Biologic expression of genetics is a real thing. It's not a bad thing, it's just reality.

Nice generalization and wrong on all accounts. Asia is a big place, you might want to look at a map, and the people that reside there come in all shapes and sizes. There is currently a young man of Polynesian descent that plays DB for the Cats. I’m sure there are Iowa farm boys that have played wide receiver.

I can't believe we can't say it. We take so many posts so literally--I was going to say we're too black and white but that terminology might be misleading in this thread. I'm sure there are some people of Asian descent who are big enough to play O-line, but you have to admit it's not common. If you watch the 100M at a big time track meet, you're just not going to see as many white folks. Mac McClung won the dunk contest last year (I think) and I can't imagine there were very many people who didn't at least think to themselves "wow, white guy!" One of the fastest kids in America last year was a white kid from Idaho. Again, if you think 99% of people who saw him race weren't a little surprised on some level that he was a white kid, I'm just not sure you're being honest. Yeah, it's a generalization, but it's not just racist white people who make it.

Who said you can’t say something? Make any statement you want, but be prepared for others to counter it.

[kennethnoisewater]

Here's how crazy Texas is: McMillan is faster than the fastest Montanan ever, yet he's ranked 26th in Texas THIS YEAR. McMillan's time would be 7th best in Florida this year and 5th best in California. Ryan Dierenfield from Skyview ran a 10.75 in his first meet of the season (and an 11.12 the second meet) for the fastest time in MT this season, but that would put him in a tie for 138th in Texas this year.

Montana rarely gets optimal weather for sprinters. Not that I’m saying Montana sprinters are in the same league of the most populated states. But there would be better prep times here if we had warmer temperatures.

OK sure, that's part of it. Times in MN and WI are also not good. My point was more about how crazy Texas is compared even to other (warm) states like Florida and California. 129 under 11 seconds in Florida this year so far, 191 in CA, 411 in TX.

If weather is the issue, indoor times should be similar. I'm pretty sure that isnt the case. I think a lot of it is culture. Bozeman (at the high school level) and MSU (at the collegiate level) are able to produce stars like Duncan Hamilton (fastest American ever in NCAA steeplechase) and Nathan Neil (Top 10 all time high schooler in human history in the 3000.) But Bozeman has never produced sprinters.

Texans also hold the all time records in boys 100, 200, 400, boys and girls 4x100, 4x200...but no records in distance or jumping.

Its not really the weather...its the culture & coaching.

Cold weather slows sprinters, across the board, down. That’s all I’m saying. Montana’s top times would probably be lower if we had warmer temperatures during track season.

Indoor sprints are for shorter distances. The indoor 200 typically has a full curve that isn’t as wide (sharper turn) and that is mainly why it isn’t as fast as outdoor 200 times. Same for 400.

It’s not colder weather and it’s not culture and coaching.

In today's world, it's not correct to say such things. But there's a reason Samoans aren't DBs, why Asians aren't O linemen, why Iowa farm boys aren't receivers. Biologic expression of genetics is a real thing. It's not a bad thing, it's just reality.

Nice generalization and wrong on all accounts. Asia is a big place, you might want to look at a map, and the people that reside there come in all shapes and sizes. There is currently a young man of Polynesian descent that plays DB for the Cats. I’m sure there are Iowa farm boys that have played wide receiver.

I can't believe we can't say it. We take so many posts so literally--I was going to say we're too black and white but that terminology might be misleading in this thread. I'm sure there are some people of Asian descent who are big enough to play O-line, but you have to admit it's not common. If you watch the 100M at a big time track meet, you're just not going to see as many white folks. Mac McClung won the dunk contest last year (I think) and I can't imagine there were very many people who didn't at least think to themselves "wow, white guy!" One of the fastest kids in America last year was a white kid from Idaho. Again, if you think 99% of people who saw him race weren't a little surprised on some level that he was a white kid, I'm just not sure you're being honest. Yeah, it's a generalization, but it's not just racist white people who make it.

Who said you can’t say something? Make any statement you want, but be prepared for others to counter it.

Man, you're very literal on this. OK, nobody said we can't say anything. But everybody's afraid to say white kids generally aren't as fast as the African American kids. I suspect you knew what I meant.

[TomCat88]

McMillan has been running sub 11.0s since his frosh season, but has really made gains since last season. His 100m went from 10.99 to 10.45 and his 200m went from 21.32 to 20.74.

[Camo_Cat]

I love speed; you can't teach speed. And I can't imagine MSU has ever had a faster group of young men coming into camp.

That said, speed doesn't necessarily equate to skill. Yes, it helps, especially in the secondary. But there are so many other factors that exist that make for a great defensive back. I can't wait for these athletes to arrive in Bozeman so we can see how they match up when placed in collegiate matchups against receivers.

[kennethnoisewater]

I love speed; you can't teach speed. And I can't imagine MSU has ever had a faster group of young men coming into camp.

That said, speed doesn't necessarily equate to skill. Yes, it helps, especially in the secondary. But there are so many other factors that exist that make for a great defensive back. I can't wait for these athletes to arrive in Bozeman so we can see how they match up when placed in collegiate matchups against receivers.

Good point. Just like strength doesn't necessarily equate to skill either. We've had some powerlifter types come in and not see the field. We tend to think because someone is incredibly strong or incredibly fast, they're going to be a great player.

[TomCat88]

I love speed; you can't teach speed. And I can't imagine MSU has ever had a faster group of young men coming into camp.

That said, speed doesn't necessarily equate to skill. Yes, it helps, especially in the secondary. But there are so many other factors that exist that make for a great defensive back. I can't wait for these athletes to arrive in Bozeman so we can see how they match up when placed in collegiate matchups against receivers.

Good point. Just like strength doesn't necessarily equate to skill either. We've had some powerlifter types come in and not see the field. We tend to think because someone is incredibly strong or incredibly fast, they're going to be a great player.

I’m just amazed at how fast these guys are. I think most football fans know that it takes more than just speed to excel at football or any sport (except track, speed skating, auto racing, luge, etc ).

It truly is amazing and I know it’s never happened before at MSU and likely very few programs in the FCS.

[rivercat]

I love speed; you can't teach speed. And I can't imagine MSU has ever had a faster group of young men coming into camp.

That said, speed doesn't necessarily equate to skill. Yes, it helps, especially in the secondary. But there are so many other factors that exist that make for a great defensive back. I can't wait for these athletes to arrive in Bozeman so we can see how they match up when placed in collegiate matchups against receivers.

Good point. Just like strength doesn't necessarily equate to skill either. We've had some powerlifter types come in and not see the field. We tend to think because someone is incredibly strong or incredibly fast, they're going to be a great player.

I’m just amazed at how fast these guys are. I think most football fans know that it takes more than just speed to excel at football or any sport (except track, speed skating, auto racing, luge, etc ).

It truly is amazing and I know it’s never happened before at MSU and likely very few programs in the FCS.

As coaches say, you can't teach speed.

[RockyBearCat]

Can't wait to see times tomorrow!!

[TomCat88]

McMillan ran a 20.69 200 today. Topped his previous best of 20.74 earlier this season. Boyd ran a 21.11 which is a PR.

The MSU record is 21.17 set this year by Michael Swan, Jr.

[catatac]

McMillan ran a 20.69 200 today. Topped his previous best of 20.74 earlier this season. Boyd ran a 21.11 which is a PR.

The MSU record is 21.17 set this year by Michael Swan, Jr.

Wat? So you're saying these kids still in high school are running faster than the all time MSU college records? Is the whole MT versus other states, cool weather, elevation deal coming into play per that other thread?

[PapaG]

Here's how crazy Texas is: McMillan is faster than the fastest Montanan ever, yet he's ranked 26th in Texas THIS YEAR. McMillan's time would be 7th best in Florida this year and 5th best in California. Ryan Dierenfield from Skyview ran a 10.75 in his first meet of the season (and an 11.12 the second meet) for the fastest time in MT this season, but that would put him in a tie for 138th in Texas this year.

Montana rarely gets optimal weather for sprinters. Not that I’m saying Montana sprinters are in the same league of the most populated states. But there would be better prep times here if we had warmer temperatures.

Perhaps by a small fraction, but it’s mainly a pure athletic talent issue. Basketball is played indoors and Montana’s best basketball player to play HS in this state to the pro level is Larry Kryskowiak, who was basically a large body at the NBA level.

[TomCat88]

Boyd ran a 10.64 yesterday and finished 8th in the preliminary and then ran a 10.94 and finished 7th in the finals, according to Athletic.net. That’s a little confusing to me for a couple reasons. Perhaps there’s a typo in there because it doesn’t seem like an eighth place finish wouldn’t get you into the final. It seems odd that they would run preliminaries and final on the same day. Is that normal?

[TomCat88]

Ross ran a 10.82 yesterday in a preliminary. Boyd and Ross were both competing in the region 2 6A meet.

[TomCat88]

McMillan’s 4x100 ran a 40.33 and 40.37 yesterday

[kennethnoisewater]

Boyd ran a 10.64 yesterday and finished 8th in the preliminary and then ran a 10.94 and finished 7th in the finals, according to Athletic.net. That’s a little confusing to me for a couple reasons. Perhaps there’s a typo in there because it doesn’t seem like an eighth place finish wouldn’t get you into the final. It seems odd that they would run preliminaries and final on the same day. Is that normal?

He did run in the finals...what are you asking? He came in as the 8 seed on an 8-lane track, so he was in an outside lane, which is never good. It doesn't matter as much in the 100, but still you seldom see lanes 1 or 8 placing. Also I'm not sure we can tell from athletic.net that they didn't run prelims on Friday and finals on Saturday. Looks like maybe everything was just posted on Saturday so it looks like it was all the same day. I'm thinking the host school just waited until the whole meet was over to post results. If you're seeing something else, my bad!