Not sold on Choate

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BleedingBLue
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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by BleedingBLue » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm

RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:12 pm

In regards to the QB's, this season has seen some of my worst fears come true.

We simply do not have a QB that can consistently make teams pay for stacking the box and playing Cover 1. Too many times have I seen our team lined up, man to man coverage, single safety, everybody else in the box, and we try to throw a 7 yard hitch. We won't win that way.

Then to compound on that, Ifanse is hurt, Andersen is hurt, Jones is hurt...we are lacking.

One last thing. Rovig gives some of the worst PA fakes I've seen. You've got to SELL that! Even with our rushing game, the defense doesn't buy his fakes. He's improved in a lot of ways, but he's just very meh. When the game counted, he couldn't make the plays we needed him to make. He might be the best of what we got, but that's not very good. I imagine Choate will chase a transfer hard.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:20 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:12 pm
In regards to the QB's, this season has seen some of my worst fears come true.

We simply do not have a QB that can consistently make teams pay for stacking the box and playing Cover 1. Too many times have I seen our team lined up, man to man coverage, single safety, everybody else in the box, and we try to throw a 7 yard hitch. We won't win that way.

Then to compound on that, Ifanse is hurt, Andersen is hurt, Jones is hurt...we are lacking.

One last thing. Rovig gives some of the worst PA fakes I've seen. You've got to SELL that! Even with our rushing game, the defense doesn't buy his fakes. He's improved in a lot of ways, but he's just very meh. When the game counted, he couldn't make the plays we needed him to make. He might be the best of what we got, but that's not very good. I imagine Choate will chase a transfer hard.
Agree with you on Tucker's play fakes. To be fair, no one really made a play on Saturday when it counted. I would like our receivers to make a contested catch every once in a while. We are desperately missing a safety blanket TE in my opinion. I would like Travis to sell his play fakes much better and start to give the ball on jet sweep. Teams are really starting to center their defense on the mesh point of Jonsen/Andersen when they are in the backfield (basically they can crowd the box without any real worry of the vertical passing game or consistently defending that jet sweep because they know one of those two are going to get the ball). This is a major reason why I think Tucker needs to be behind center while being flanked by our runners. I was not impressed how little we attacked off-tackle on Saturday. Overall, just need to start forcing the defense to defend sideline to sideline. Another underrated thing that I've been noticing, the shotgun snaps have been very inconsistent the past few games and its been putting a hitch in timing of certain plays. Wondering if there is a possibility of Denver Krone getting back in there at C and then we rotate Tui and Redd at LG.


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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by GoCats18 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:27 pm

Makes sense. He has done a great job with the RB’s. Thanks for the info Vim


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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:27 pm

VimSince03 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:20 pm
Another underrated thing that I've been noticing, the shotgun snaps have been very inconsistent the past few games and its been putting a hitch in timing of certain plays. Wondering if there is a possibility of Denver Krone getting back in there at C and then we rotate Tui and Redd at LG.
It’s funny you mention this as I haven’t really noticed this until Saturday. Snaps were all over the place. I imagine this is difficult for even tested qb’s but especially for a young sophomore trying to figure things out.

But it was very noticeable Saturday that errant snaps were really screwing up the timing on several plays.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by RobertoGato » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:48 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.
I will have to go back and look at that play. My memory has Kassis only 2-3 yards past the LOS. I can recall another hitch that was too hot and behind Kassis.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by KittieKop » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:07 pm

Here's a quick summary as I see it:

Offensively we out passed (yardage) and out rushed (yardage) SAC.

First 7 possessions for SAC: Punt, TD, TD, TD, halftime, TD, TD.

First 7 possessions for MSU: INT (Rovig's hit arm INT), TO on Downs (the baffling 4th down formation), TD, punt (3 and out) TD, punt (5 plays), punt (3 and out).

Defense can't slow SAC at the same time the offense has two drives end weirdly followed by 3 more ineffective ones, at which point MSU is buried. And MSU is not built to play from behind with time being short, especially with the current injuries.


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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by RobertoGato » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:39 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.
When back to check. We were both wrong. Kassis runs a 5 yard hitch. Rovig airmailed him.

All that said, Rovig did make some nicer throws in this game. I don't think he was dreadful or the sole reason we lost. But he struggled early.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by Cataholic » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:11 pm

KittieKop wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:07 pm
Here's a quick summary as I see it:

Offensively we out passed (yardage) and out rushed (yardage) SAC.

First 7 possessions for SAC: Punt, TD, TD, TD, halftime, TD, TD.

First 7 possessions for MSU: INT (Rovig's hit arm INT), TO on Downs (the baffling 4th down formation), TD, punt (3 and out) TD, punt (5 plays), punt (3 and out).

Defense can't slow SAC at the same time the offense has two drives end weirdly followed by 3 more ineffective ones, at which point MSU is buried. And MSU is not built to play from behind with time being short, especially with the current injuries.
While this looks ugly, it is fixable. The first MSU drive looked good until we threw the int. The offensive line was beat on that play which contributed to the int. We can fix that.

The horrible call to go for it on 4th down on our own 40 was baffling. That can be fixed by never doing it again.

Our failures in the red zone can be fixed. With all the weapons we have, there is zero reason we can’t score in the red zone.

Quite frankly, Sac State was the better team, but if we did a handful of plays differently, this game would have been much closer.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by catsrback76 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm

RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:39 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.
When back to check. We were both wrong. Kassis runs a 5 yard hitch. Rovig airmailed him.

All that said, Rovig did make some nicer throws in this game. I don't think he was dreadful or the sole reason we lost. But he struggled early.
Not sure what you armchair QB's are seeing, but I'm seeing a better and better Rovig each time he plays. IF, he can be truly given a game to manage, in spite of all the TA and TJ QB apologists, I believe every aspect of our Offense runs better. Given the fact that Coach Choate himself stated that Sac St. was Rovigs best game to date, 262 yards and a TD against a great Defense, I expect to see a more stable QB commitment. What is abundantly clear to everyone is that what we're doing with 3 players filling the spot with 2 doing essentially the same thing (running) keeps no one off stride except our Offense!



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by utucats » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:34 am

catsrback76 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:39 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.
When back to check. We were both wrong. Kassis runs a 5 yard hitch. Rovig airmailed him.

All that said, Rovig did make some nicer throws in this game. I don't think he was dreadful or the sole reason we lost. But he struggled early.
Not sure what you armchair QB's are seeing, but I'm seeing a better and better Rovig each time he plays. IF, he can be truly given a game to manage, in spite of all the TA and TJ QB apologists, I believe every aspect of our Offense runs better. Given the fact that Coach Choate himself stated that Sac St. was Rovigs best game to date, 262 yards and a TD against a great Defense, I expect to see a more stable QB commitment. What is abundantly clear to everyone is that what we're doing with 3 players filling the spot with 2 doing essentially the same thing (running) keeps no one off stride except our Offense!
Rovig’s yardage can be attributed to us being forced to pass against a great run D who is susceptible to giving up passing yards. If you paid attention you’ll remember that Rovig was one Sac secondary drop away from giving up a pick 6 as well.

Rovig’s strength is throwing short to medium routes. He’s had some nice ones but he is so inconsistent. He doesn’t go thru reads, he’s an easy sack for a good defensive front and too often he airmails passes over heads or had passes eat turf 5 yards before the receivers.

We are a running team, let’s give up any hope that we are going to pick teams apart through the air. I’m starting to think that BNs desire for a traditional QB has led us down this path. I’d have rather had last years offense against Sac. Does anyone really believe that TA can’t make the throws these guys are barely ever making?


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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by Marana CAT » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:10 am

catsrback76 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:39 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.
When back to check. We were both wrong. Kassis runs a 5 yard hitch. Rovig airmailed him.

All that said, Rovig did make some nicer throws in this game. I don't think he was dreadful or the sole reason we lost. But he struggled early.
Not sure what you armchair QB's are seeing, but I'm seeing a better and better Rovig each time he plays. IF, he can be truly given a game to manage, in spite of all the TA and TJ QB apologists, I believe every aspect of our Offense runs better. Given the fact that Coach Choate himself stated that Sac St. was Rovigs best game to date, 262 yards and a TD against a great Defense, I expect to see a more stable QB commitment. What is abundantly clear to everyone is that what we're doing with 3 players filling the spot with 2 doing essentially the same thing (running) keeps no one off stride except our Offense!
Ha Ha you are the biggest armchair QB and Rovig apologists on this board!! And what really is abundantly clear is The Offical-unofficial game day thread you start every Saturday is a dumpster fire!!


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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by catsrback76 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:47 am

Marana CAT wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:10 am
catsrback76 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:39 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.
When back to check. We were both wrong. Kassis runs a 5 yard hitch. Rovig airmailed him.

All that said, Rovig did make some nicer throws in this game. I don't think he was dreadful or the sole reason we lost. But he struggled early.
Not sure what you armchair QB's are seeing, but I'm seeing a better and better Rovig each time he plays. IF, he can be truly given a game to manage, in spite of all the TA and TJ QB apologists, I believe every aspect of our Offense runs better. Given the fact that Coach Choate himself stated that Sac St. was Rovigs best game to date, 262 yards and a TD against a great Defense, I expect to see a more stable QB commitment. What is abundantly clear to everyone is that what we're doing with 3 players filling the spot with 2 doing essentially the same thing (running) keeps no one off stride except our Offense!
Ha Ha you are the biggest armchair QB and Rovig apologists on this board!! And what really is abundantly clear is The Offical-unofficial game day thread you start every Saturday is a dumpster fire!!
Yes I am an armchair QB as are you. I’ve not been anything other than that. To be fair we all are, no?

What isn’t true is the point that I am a Rovig apologist! I am not and you have not been paying attention to say so. What I am, going back to Murray, then Troy, and then this year, is I am an apologist for a balanced Offense!!!

I’d take Thompson all day long over any of our QBs because he can run a balanced O. When Bauman was QB1 I was for him until he dumped way too many passes at WRs feet, then I said we should put in Rovig.

Let me be clear again... I’d take Beltran over Rovig if he was put in for any reason other than to experiment. I’d take Bauman if the coaches felt he was on top of his passing game.

The problem is, no one... including Troy has demonstrated that they can out play Rovig as a balanced QB!!! Until someone emerges, ride the horse, and don’t go backwards by any placing Troy in at QB like last year.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by RobertoGato » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:05 am

catsrback76 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm
Not sure what you armchair QB's are seeing, but I'm seeing a better and better Rovig each time he plays. IF, he can be truly given a game to manage, in spite of all the TA and TJ QB apologists, I believe every aspect of our Offense runs better. Given the fact that Coach Choate himself stated that Sac St. was Rovigs best game to date, 262 yards and a TD against a great Defense, I expect to see a more stable QB commitment. What is abundantly clear to everyone is that what we're doing with 3 players filling the spot with 2 doing essentially the same thing (running) keeps no one off stride except our Offense!
So if I give my opinion of what's taking place on the field, I'm an "armchair QB," but that somehow doesn't apply to you for giving your opinion?

What's got you so upset, anyhow?



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by superbobcat » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:08 am

No head games, no deceptive used car salesman tricks, supports his players, deals with the media and public well, has the respect of the administration, leads other coaches outside of his program, respects Montana and our high school football players, hires young coaches that relate to players, demands excellence and values, places high value on getting a degree, respected by other Big Sky Coaches, building a deep player led locker-room, owns mistakes and deflects compliments to the people around him, building a brand of football that Montana State fans will be proud of .....I AM SOLD ON COACH JEFF CHOATE!



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by RobertoGato » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:09 am

catsrback76 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:47 am
Marana CAT wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:10 am
catsrback76 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:39 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.
When back to check. We were both wrong. Kassis runs a 5 yard hitch. Rovig airmailed him.

All that said, Rovig did make some nicer throws in this game. I don't think he was dreadful or the sole reason we lost. But he struggled early.
Not sure what you armchair QB's are seeing, but I'm seeing a better and better Rovig each time he plays. IF, he can be truly given a game to manage, in spite of all the TA and TJ QB apologists, I believe every aspect of our Offense runs better. Given the fact that Coach Choate himself stated that Sac St. was Rovigs best game to date, 262 yards and a TD against a great Defense, I expect to see a more stable QB commitment. What is abundantly clear to everyone is that what we're doing with 3 players filling the spot with 2 doing essentially the same thing (running) keeps no one off stride except our Offense!
Ha Ha you are the biggest armchair QB and Rovig apologists on this board!! And what really is abundantly clear is The Offical-unofficial game day thread you start every Saturday is a dumpster fire!!
Yes I am an armchair QB as are you. I’ve not been anything other than that. To be fair we all are, no?

What isn’t true is the point that I am a Rovig apologist! I am not and you have not been paying attention to say so. What I am, going back to Murray, then Troy, and then this year, is I am an apologist for a balanced Offense!!!

I’d take Thompson all day long over any of our QBs because he can run a balanced O. When Bauman was QB1 I was for him until he dumped way too many passes at WRs feet, then I said we should put in Rovig.

Let me be clear again... I’d take Beltran over Rovig if he was put in for any reason other than to experiment. I’d take Bauman if the coaches felt he was on top of his passing game.

The problem is, no one... including Troy has demonstrated that they can out play Rovig as a balanced QB!!! Until someone emerges, ride the horse, and don’t go backwards by any placing Troy in at QB like last year.
This is true. But what's also true is that we have needed our "imbalanced" QB's at times this year to secure wins. I am all for giving Rovig more and more consistency as he earns it, especially against lesser opponents, and especially when the running backs are healthy. But I also believe strongly, and think the games themselves bear this out, that the Cats would be .500 at best right now if they had chosen to just ride or die with Rovig.

There's a difference between people wanting an offense that lacks balance (I don't think this describes anyone) and people believing that using Andersen and Jonsen gives the Cats the best chance to win games at times.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by iaafan » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:43 am

MSU didn’t exactly get stomped by SAC and is quite capable of beating the Hornets. The following things need to happen for MSU to get on track, which they haven’t been since Choate arrived:

1) get healthy. Namely Ifanse Andersen, but also Jones and Filer.
2) build trust and chemistry. This means don’t try to do too much yourself. Trust your teammates to do their job. Trust the coaches to put in a spot that helps the team. Trust the officials to call the game. Doing that will allow you to focus on you and eliminate many of the on-going screw ups and it builds chemistry. Had players been more focused, the sack that led to the mishandled snap/bad punt probably doesn’t happen and lead to a SAC TD.
3) coaches quit taking unnecessary risks. Trust your players. Padmos most likely would’ve pinned Poly deep in its own end with a punt on that botched fourth down that opened the door for their first score.

The latter two are things that can easily be fixed. The first one seems highly possible.

MSU all but gave SAC two first half scores and took one away from itself. The game should’ve been tied at half, but it was damn near a 14-point hole.

More complex issues are QB play and third downs allowed. But these are manageable.

While Rovig has been intercepted in each of the last three games (and they’ve all been very costly) he hasn’t made the same mistake twice. Sounds trivial, but that’s a good sign. Meanwhile, he’s showing improvement, albeit gradual.

The third down issue should’ve been scouted out. MSU knew what kind of quarterback Thomson is, but neglected to try anything to rattle him. He may get the ball out quick, but it doesn’t always need to be solely on his terms. Getting it in his head that he must get it out quick leads to less confident decisions, which lead to incompletions and tentative predeterminations. This needed to happen right out of the gate. Not 20-30 minutes into the game.



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by CelticCat » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:03 am

utucats wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:34 am
catsrback76 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:39 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:10 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:22 pm
BleedingBLue wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm
It all ties back to the situation and the play calling. I think you are right about doing that on 2, if not 3 straight drives. But the issue seemed to be throwing a deep ball on 1st down, not completing it, then a running team is behind schedule and even a 3 yard gain on 2nd down gets you into a 3rd and long. We haven't seen the read option with Rovig nearly as much as I thought we would either. As CelticCat said he is capable of getting good yards on designed run plays. That alone would force teams to key in on more than just the RB when Rovig is operating the offense. That would also lead to more effective play action. Who knows though. This is probably stuff that has come up and it might not be something the coaches feel doesn't work. I think the UND game will be telling for the rest of the season as far as the offense is concerned.
I mean no offense, and maybe certain posters will just have to agree to disagree, but I just don't see this as being the consistent problem.

On Saturday, they started behind the sticks because Rovig air-mailed a wide open screen in the flat to Kassis. Most of his reads are short throws. He misses too many gimmes. If all he did was complete the easy ones consistently, I think he would be playing more consistent snaps.
I was referring strictly to the NAU game. I believe we went deep on 2 straight drives on 1st down or 2nd and long or medium.

As for the airmailing balls do you have any specific plays you can point to? The first pass of the game was a 6-8 yard comeback, not a screen pass. Yes he threw it way too high, but I don't recall too many other high throws, or throws in the dirt from Saturday. I could be misremebering though. I would say his passes on comebacks and slants are his most consistent passes. Sometimes a little hot on the slants but pretty accurate.
When back to check. We were both wrong. Kassis runs a 5 yard hitch. Rovig airmailed him.

All that said, Rovig did make some nicer throws in this game. I don't think he was dreadful or the sole reason we lost. But he struggled early.
Not sure what you armchair QB's are seeing, but I'm seeing a better and better Rovig each time he plays. IF, he can be truly given a game to manage, in spite of all the TA and TJ QB apologists, I believe every aspect of our Offense runs better. Given the fact that Coach Choate himself stated that Sac St. was Rovigs best game to date, 262 yards and a TD against a great Defense, I expect to see a more stable QB commitment. What is abundantly clear to everyone is that what we're doing with 3 players filling the spot with 2 doing essentially the same thing (running) keeps no one off stride except our Offense!
Rovig’s yardage can be attributed to us being forced to pass against a great run D who is susceptible to giving up passing yards. If you paid attention you’ll remember that Rovig was one Sac secondary drop away from giving up a pick 6 as well.

Rovig’s strength is throwing short to medium routes. He’s had some nice ones but he is so inconsistent. He doesn’t go thru reads, he’s an easy sack for a good defensive front and too often he airmails passes over heads or had passes eat turf 5 yards before the receivers.

We are a running team, let’s give up any hope that we are going to pick teams apart through the air. I’m starting to think that BNs desire for a traditional QB has led us down this path. I’d have rather had last years offense against Sac. Does anyone really believe that TA can’t make the throws these guys are barely ever making?
If BN had any influence on what Jeff Choate did as HC we would never win a game.


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catsrback76
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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by catsrback76 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:27 am

RobertoGato wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:05 am
catsrback76 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:41 pm
Not sure what you armchair QB's are seeing, but I'm seeing a better and better Rovig each time he plays. IF, he can be truly given a game to manage, in spite of all the TA and TJ QB apologists, I believe every aspect of our Offense runs better. Given the fact that Coach Choate himself stated that Sac St. was Rovigs best game to date, 262 yards and a TD against a great Defense, I expect to see a more stable QB commitment. What is abundantly clear to everyone is that what we're doing with 3 players filling the spot with 2 doing essentially the same thing (running) keeps no one off stride except our Offense!
So if I give my opinion of what's taking place on the field, I'm an "armchair QB," but that somehow doesn't apply to you for giving your opinion?

What's got you so upset, anyhow?
I'm armchair, but so are you. I have played the game, and likely at a higher level longer than most on this board, but who cares? I have observations and so do you, but when I label you as an armchair (which you are, you're not coaching anything MSU), who cares? You might prefer a different Offence than I do but don't take my push back, strong or otherwise as a critique of your opinion ( as wrong as it may be :) ) as anything other than fanboard banter! :)



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Re: Not sold on Choate

Post by Cataholic » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:11 am

superbobcat wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:08 am
No head games, no deceptive used car salesman tricks, supports his players, deals with the media and public well, has the respect of the administration, leads other coaches outside of his program, respects Montana and our high school football players, hires young coaches that relate to players, demands excellence and values, places high value on getting a degree, respected by other Big Sky Coaches, building a deep player led locker-room, owns mistakes and deflects compliments to the people around him, building a brand of football that Montana State fans will be proud of .....I AM SOLD ON COACH JEFF CHOATE!
Well said, but I would understand one additional item. Choate firmly understands that part of his job is to develop outstanding young men, not just football players. This is one attribute I love about the guy!



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