1-5

[onceacat]

Prukop was a lot of things, but he wasn’t a particularly good passer. He was a phenomenal runner.

481-750, 64.1% completion %. 6,798 yds, 9.1 yd/att, 54 TD, 18 INT, including his 4 games at Oregon. He was a very good to excellent passer. Had he started 4 yrs here he would have been knocking on the door of many records. As it is, he's #5 in career passing yards, #5 in single season yards, #1 in career PASSING yards per game, #5 in career passing TDs and has the second highest season total for TD passes with 28 in 2015. I'd say he was above average as a passer

Agree with Onceacat. Prukop's primary talent was in his legs not his arm. He was an "above average passer" as long as the receivers didn't go deep.

His odds of completing a 30 yard pass depended entirely upon his receiver's desire to go try to get it, because the ball probably wasn't going where the receiver was.

BS

Seems his stats and production speak for themselves.

5-6

To be fair, the defenses in 2014 and 2015 couldn't stop anyone on 4th and 15. You have to acknowledge that influenced his win-loss record as a starter.

Defenses definitely effected his win loss record but his/Cramsey’s style of offense also effected the defense. With our style we consistently lost TOP and a weak defense with awful coaching was also forced to be on the field WAY more than they should have been.

The fact is, in the only stat that really matters, Prukop was unimpressive.

If a QB is good and the team isn’t, then the QB is bad.

If the QB isn’t good, but the team is good, the QB is still bad.

If the QB is good and the team is good, then nobody else but the quarterback is good.

I think Prukop was an average passing QB and a great runner. Our coaching staff back then decided to throw all their chips in that he was All World and decided we try and let him outscore everyone else and throw the D to the wolves. It didn’t work.

Prukop put up big numbers but failed in a lot of clutch moments. I don’t blame him. He was overhyped by the coaches and forced into a gimmicky offensive system and it got exposed in a lot of key moments.

It a shame he didn’t hang in for another year, Choate would have put him in a better situation.

I don’t agree with utu very often.

Prukop was a great QB, a decent enough passer in an offense that gave him a chance to put up Madden type numbers.

I dare anyone to look up his stats though....almost ALL of Prukop big numbers were put up in garbage time and against bad teams. A lot of that had to do with the D, but a lot of it was that the O didn’t ever really execute well against good defenses. Until we were down by 3 scores, then watch out, because we were going to light up the scoreboard & pad the stat sheets once the game was over.

[onceacat]

The argument was Prukop was an "average passer at best", I provided facts to dispute that. You somehow turned it into how Prukop was forced into a gimmicky offense (which apparently he excelled at running) and he lost "lots" of key games. I refuted the "average passer" argument, you turned it into an indictment of the prior coaching staff, as you always do. Prukop was not an "average" passing QB who could run. He did both, prodigiously. If he'd played here under any staff or system that gave him opportunit for four full seasons, he'd hold most of the offensive records. I'm not arguing win-loss, staff offense or defense philosophy, Choate-better-than-Ash or trying to rehash anything, other than say anyone wanting to claim Prukop was somehow below average to average to grind another axe is off their rocker.

That gives him a career passer rating (159) similar to Dalton Sneed this season (151). It would put him in the top 20 FCS QBs. We might disagree on the difference between “good” and “great”.

It’s also better than Cookus, Barriere, or Maier. I don’t think there’s much argument that those 3 are all better passers tha Prukop. Prukop was a better QB than those 3, but not a better passer.

[Catsrgrood]

Wow, is this thread for real?

[utucats]

481-750, 64.1% completion %. 6,798 yds, 9.1 yd/att, 54 TD, 18 INT, including his 4 games at Oregon. He was a very good to excellent passer. Had he started 4 yrs here he would have been knocking on the door of many records. As it is, he's #5 in career passing yards, #5 in single season yards, #1 in career PASSING yards per game, #5 in career passing TDs and has the second highest season total for TD passes with 28 in 2015. I'd say he was above average as a passer

Agree with Onceacat. Prukop's primary talent was in his legs not his arm. He was an "above average passer" as long as the receivers didn't go deep.

His odds of completing a 30 yard pass depended entirely upon his receiver's desire to go try to get it, because the ball probably wasn't going where the receiver was.

BS

Seems his stats and production speak for themselves.

5-6

To be fair, the defenses in 2014 and 2015 couldn't stop anyone on 4th and 15. You have to acknowledge that influenced his win-loss record as a starter.

Defenses definitely effected his win loss record but his/Cramsey’s style of offense also effected the defense. With our style we consistently lost TOP and a weak defense with awful coaching was also forced to be on the field WAY more than they should have been.

The fact is, in the only stat that really matters, Prukop was unimpressive.

If a QB is good and the team isn’t, then the QB is bad.

If the QB isn’t good, but the team is good, the QB is still bad.

If the QB is good and the team is good, then nobody else but the quarterback is good.

I think Prukop was an average passing QB and a great runner. Our coaching staff back then decided to throw all their chips in that he was All World and decided we try and let him outscore everyone else and throw the D to the wolves. It didn’t work.

Prukop put up big numbers but failed in a lot of clutch moments. I don’t blame him. He was overhyped by the coaches and forced into a gimmicky offensive system and it got exposed in a lot of key moments.

It a shame he didn’t hang in for another year, Choate would have put him in a better situation.

I don’t agree with utu very often.

Prukop was a great QB, a decent enough passer in an offense that gave him a chance to put up Madden type numbers.

I dare anyone to look up his stats though....almost ALL of Prukop big numbers were put up in garbage time and against bad teams. A lot of that had to do with the D, but a lot of it was that the O didn’t ever really execute well against good defenses. Until we were down by 3 scores, then watch out, because we were going to light up the scoreboard & pad the stat sheets once the game was over.

Welcome to the Jungle!

[Cataholic]

This thread is pathetic. I can’t believe some of you are still critiquing Prukop, and even worse, are still so critical of him. Awful.

[utucats]

This thread is pathetic. I can’t believe some of you are still critiquing Prukop, and even worse, are still so critical of him. Awful.

It is shocking when a site dedicated to discussing Bobcat football does just that.

The point that is being made is quite simple and not really critical of Prukop at all. Prukop, as talented as he was, led a much different offense and although many Cat fans may have found it exciting it didn’t translate to Ws. What we have now is a far superior way to approach playing this team game.

[BadlandsGrizFanAgain]

Mannnn first post back here in a WHILE....good to be back guys.

Also, this original topic on this thread is nuts....whats wrong with that guy? Cats are looking good and this guys worried about almost losing out???

And to clear up the 3 page argument from above.....The Griz did start out similar to this to last year in RECORD yes.....but if you actually watch the games the team is night and day different. Some major changes are...putting teams away in the 2nd half....better offensive line play and running back.....very few shoot yourself in the foot plays....this Griz team looks much mentally tougher.

As for the Cats...the team reminds me of the team last year...not having a QB...really good Oline and RBs with a good defense. The difference to me this year looks like all mental for the Cats. They know how to win games...and bring that confidence into the 2nd halves, instead of hoping to win games.

[onceacat]

This thread is pathetic. I can’t believe some of you are still critiquing Prukop, and even worse, are still so critical of him. Awful.

It is shocking when a site dedicated to discussing Bobcat football does just that.

The point that is being made is quite simple and not really critical of Prukop at all. Prukop, as talented as he was, led a much different offense and although many Cat fans may have found it exciting it didn’t translate to Ws. What we have now is a far superior way to approach playing this team game.

Weird. Critiquing football. Assessing strengths and weaknesses.

I sure hope the coaching staff doesn't critique its players. I sure hope Canadian football teams don't critique Prukop when it comes time for him to change teams.

Lets all hold hands, sing kum-by-ah and pretend like not a single one of our players have strengths and weaknesses.

Participation awards for everyone!

[Hawks86]

3:30 today at the bike racks features Debbie Downer vs. Pollyanna in a no rules pillow fight. Winner gets a cookie.

[Cataholic]

This thread is pathetic. I can’t believe some of you are still critiquing Prukop, and even worse, are still so critical of him. Awful.

It is shocking when a site dedicated to discussing Bobcat football does just that.

The point that is being made is quite simple and not really critical of Prukop at all. Prukop, as talented as he was, led a much different offense and although many Cat fans may have found it exciting it didn’t translate to Ws. What we have now is a far superior way to approach playing this team game.

Weird. Critiquing football. Assessing strengths and weaknesses.

I sure hope the coaching staff doesn't critique its players. I sure hope Canadian football teams don't critique Prukop when it comes time for him to change teams.

Lets all hold hands, sing kum-by-ah and pretend like not a single one of our players have strengths and weaknesses.

Participation awards for everyone!

Thanks for that incredible football analysis of a guy that played for MSU a number years ago. I am sure that many people are hanging on the edge of their seats waiting to see what the great minds of UTU and oncecat think.

By the way, you should go check Dakota’s twitter page. This guy clearly loved his time at MSU and proudly displays his affinity for our school. It would seem that a kid who worked so hard for the team would deserve a little more respect. But I am sure your individual contributions to the school far surpass anything this kid may have done...

And lastly, if it is okay to be critical of players, it is definitely okay to be critical of various posters.

[Buckaroo Bonzi]

The argument was Prukop was an "average passer at best", I provided facts to dispute that. You somehow turned it into how Prukop was forced into a gimmicky offense (which apparently he excelled at running) and he lost "lots" of key games. I refuted the "average passer" argument, you turned it into an indictment of the prior coaching staff, as you always do. Prukop was not an "average" passing QB who could run. He did both, prodigiously. If he'd played here under any staff or system that gave him opportunit for four full seasons, he'd hold most of the offensive records. I'm not arguing win-loss, staff offense or defense philosophy, Choate-better-than-Ash or trying to rehash anything, other than say anyone wanting to claim Prukop was somehow below average to average to grind another axe is off their rocker.

That gives him a career passer rating (159) similar to Dalton Sneed this season (151). It would put him in the top 20 FCS QBs. We might disagree on the difference between “good” and “great”.

It’s also better than Cookus, Barriere, or Maier. I don’t think there’s much argument that those 3 are all better passers tha Prukop. Prukop was a better QB than those 3, but not a better passer.

Dakota would fit real well with this current Team.

[onceacat]

The argument was Prukop was an "average passer at best", I provided facts to dispute that. You somehow turned it into how Prukop was forced into a gimmicky offense (which apparently he excelled at running) and he lost "lots" of key games. I refuted the "average passer" argument, you turned it into an indictment of the prior coaching staff, as you always do. Prukop was not an "average" passing QB who could run. He did both, prodigiously. If he'd played here under any staff or system that gave him opportunit for four full seasons, he'd hold most of the offensive records. I'm not arguing win-loss, staff offense or defense philosophy, Choate-better-than-Ash or trying to rehash anything, other than say anyone wanting to claim Prukop was somehow below average to average to grind another axe is off their rocker.

That gives him a career passer rating (159) similar to Dalton Sneed this season (151). It would put him in the top 20 FCS QBs. We might disagree on the difference between “good” and “great”.

It’s also better than Cookus, Barriere, or Maier. I don’t think there’s much argument that those 3 are all better passers tha Prukop. Prukop was a better QB than those 3, but not a better passer.

Dakota would fit real well with this current Team.

Yep. He'd be awesome in this lineup.

[Cledus]

The argument was Prukop was an "average passer at best", I provided facts to dispute that. You somehow turned it into how Prukop was forced into a gimmicky offense (which apparently he excelled at running) and he lost "lots" of key games. I refuted the "average passer" argument, you turned it into an indictment of the prior coaching staff, as you always do. Prukop was not an "average" passing QB who could run. He did both, prodigiously. If he'd played here under any staff or system that gave him opportunit for four full seasons, he'd hold most of the offensive records. I'm not arguing win-loss, staff offense or defense philosophy, Choate-better-than-Ash or trying to rehash anything, other than say anyone wanting to claim Prukop was somehow below average to average to grind another axe is off their rocker.

That gives him a career passer rating (159) similar to Dalton Sneed this season (151). It would put him in the top 20 FCS QBs. We might disagree on the difference between “good” and “great”.

It’s also better than Cookus, Barriere, or Maier. I don’t think there’s much argument that those 3 are all better passers tha Prukop. Prukop was a better QB than those 3, but not a better passer.

Dakota would fit real well with this current Team.

Yep. He'd be awesome in this lineup.

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

[CelticCat]

The argument was Prukop was an "average passer at best", I provided facts to dispute that. You somehow turned it into how Prukop was forced into a gimmicky offense (which apparently he excelled at running) and he lost "lots" of key games. I refuted the "average passer" argument, you turned it into an indictment of the prior coaching staff, as you always do. Prukop was not an "average" passing QB who could run. He did both, prodigiously. If he'd played here under any staff or system that gave him opportunit for four full seasons, he'd hold most of the offensive records. I'm not arguing win-loss, staff offense or defense philosophy, Choate-better-than-Ash or trying to rehash anything, other than say anyone wanting to claim Prukop was somehow below average to average to grind another axe is off their rocker.

That gives him a career passer rating (159) similar to Dalton Sneed this season (151). It would put him in the top 20 FCS QBs. We might disagree on the difference between “good” and “great”.

It’s also better than Cookus, Barriere, or Maier. I don’t think there’s much argument that those 3 are all better passers tha Prukop. Prukop was a better QB than those 3, but not a better passer.

Dakota would fit real well with this current Team.

Yep. He'd be awesome in this lineup.

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

Disagree. Bruggman likely never comes here. Murray isn't thrust into the fire as a true freshman and instead gets to spend his freshman season adapting to collegiate life and maybe (conjecture) doesn't end up dropping out. Prukop not returning ended up having a huge domino effect. Not saying we shouldn't have been able to overcome it - it just is what it is.

[Cledus]

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

Disagree. Bruggman likely never comes here. Murray isn't thrust into the fire as a true freshman and instead gets to spend his freshman season adapting to collegiate life and maybe (conjecture) doesn't end up dropping out. Prukop not returning ended up having a huge domino effect. Not saying we shouldn't have been able to overcome it - it just is what it is.

Right, I get that part about Bruggman. But that was 2016, right? Unless I'm Brian Williams-ing and misremembering things.

Murray and Rovig would have still been recruited and ostensibly still committed to the Cats and been the presumptive front runners for the qb position in 2017. I'm trying to say that 2016 would have been better, but 2017 and 2018 probably would have been no different and that we still go 5-6 and then 8-5.

Edit: I guess I'm trying to say that no matter when Prukop decided to leave, we'd have been thin at qb in 2017 and 2018.

[codecat]

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

Disagree. Bruggman likely never comes here. Murray isn't thrust into the fire as a true freshman and instead gets to spend his freshman season adapting to collegiate life and maybe (conjecture) doesn't end up dropping out. Prukop not returning ended up having a huge domino effect. Not saying we shouldn't have been able to overcome it - it just is what it is.

Right, I get that part about Bruggman. But that was 2016, right? Unless I'm Brian Williams-ing and misremembering things.

Murray and Rovig would have still been recruited and ostensibly still committed to the Cats and been the presumptive front runners for the qb position in 2017. I'm trying to say that 2016 would have been better, but 2017 and 2018 probably would have been no different and that we still go 5-6 and then 8-5.

Edit: I guess I'm trying to say that no matter when Prukop decided to leave, we'd have been thin at qb in 2017 and 2018.

Have to agree, it would have made a difference in 2016 but not thereafter because Bruggman likely wouldn't have come, and Murray would have used his redshirt in 2016, and played in 2017 but after that he dropped out for academic reasons which was at the end of 2017 - that still happens, and recruiting since most likely remains the same with Rovig and Bauman.

[tdub]

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

Disagree. Bruggman likely never comes here. Murray isn't thrust into the fire as a true freshman and instead gets to spend his freshman season adapting to collegiate life and maybe (conjecture) doesn't end up dropping out. Prukop not returning ended up having a huge domino effect. Not saying we shouldn't have been able to overcome it - it just is what it is.

Right, I get that part about Bruggman. But that was 2016, right? Unless I'm Brian Williams-ing and misremembering things.

Murray and Rovig would have still been recruited and ostensibly still committed to the Cats and been the presumptive front runners for the qb position in 2017. I'm trying to say that 2016 would have been better, but 2017 and 2018 probably would have been no different and that we still go 5-6 and then 8-5.

Edit: I guess I'm trying to say that no matter when Prukop decided to leave, we'd have been thin at qb in 2017 and 2018.

Have to agree, it would have made a difference in 2016 but not thereafter because Bruggman likely wouldn't have come, and Murray would have used his redshirt in 2016, and played in 2017 but after that he dropped out for academic reasons which was at the end of 2017 - that still happens, and recruiting since most likely remains the same with Rovig and Bauman.

I think the impact was much bigger than that. Prukop stays and Murray gets to redshirt, which means running scout team and learning how to be a top FCS qb under Prukop and not just game-planning each week as a 17-18 yr old. Maybe pick up some very good things from Dakota as he had to work very hard to become a more efficient passer. That senior leadership effect can last for years. I think that redshirt transition year may have been critical in hindsight. I’m just putting in the assumption that this would have been positively impactful on his education as well.

With that in mind, he’d have been a redshirt junior this year and the guys behind him would’ve had more time to develop as a result. With no other unforeseen events, Bauman may not have even had a chance to start until his redshirt junior season. The timeline of qb development may have been much better instead of younger kids consistently being thrown to the wolves.

[Darth Yoda]

Sometimes I envy our noble brethren to the west. Rarely actually, but I can think of at least one instance I'm certain about. Regardless of any circumstance or overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they think their grizz are the Super Bowl champions. Years like last year where they lose three straight at home including a homecoming loss to Portland State, or stretches where they have a coach like Bob Stitt that was progressively dismantling the program piece by piece, they still think they are the best team in the world and the Bobcats are awful. If you explain the reality of the situation to these grizz fans using all logic and nothing but facts, they will stare off into space for a moment and them come back with a comment on how we are the little brother. They believe they are going to win every single week, and don't bother to process any exceptions to the guaranteed victorious outcome.

Cat fans are a whole different animal and a psychiatrist would have a field day trying to capture the essence of what it truly means to be a diehard and hardcore Cat fan. There's a long history that plays into the diagnosis and although I'm not a psychiatrist, I'll still give my two cents. Many Cat fans are the exact opposite of the run-of-mill grizz fan I described above and have difficulty processing success, and what's more, the better the Cats season is going, the more likely the deep rooted and long-established neuroses will surface. Quite simply, Cats fans have difficulty believing and often don’t dare projecting hope because they fear they will be beat down again like they were in the past.

Seeing these neuroses in this magnitude is a good thing I suppose. It simply means the Cats are playing well and these individuals are trying to guard against the feeling of hope that has betrayed them in the past. The better the season goes, the more we’ll see this neurotic behavior.

I’ll take it. It means we are playing well and still have a chance at a great season.

[lutecat]

He'd have been handing the ball off to Chad Newell and Nick LaSane. That would have been awesome to watch with our improvements on defense.

But the next year, 2017, we'd presumably be right back to where we are now.

Disagree. Bruggman likely never comes here. Murray isn't thrust into the fire as a true freshman and instead gets to spend his freshman season adapting to collegiate life and maybe (conjecture) doesn't end up dropping out. Prukop not returning ended up having a huge domino effect. Not saying we shouldn't have been able to overcome it - it just is what it is.

Right, I get that part about Bruggman. But that was 2016, right? Unless I'm Brian Williams-ing and misremembering things.

Murray and Rovig would have still been recruited and ostensibly still committed to the Cats and been the presumptive front runners for the qb position in 2017. I'm trying to say that 2016 would have been better, but 2017 and 2018 probably would have been no different and that we still go 5-6 and then 8-5.

Edit: I guess I'm trying to say that no matter when Prukop decided to leave, we'd have been thin at qb in 2017 and 2018.

Have to agree, it would have made a difference in 2016 but not thereafter because Bruggman likely wouldn't have come, and Murray would have used his redshirt in 2016, and played in 2017 but after that he dropped out for academic reasons which was at the end of 2017 - that still happens, and recruiting since most likely remains the same with Rovig and Bauman.

I think the impact was much bigger than that. Prukop stays and Murray gets to redshirt, which means running scout team and learning how to be a top FCS qb under Prukop and not just game-planning each week as a 17-18 yr old. Maybe pick up some very good things from Dakota as he had to work very hard to become a more efficient passer. That senior leadership effect can last for years. I think that redshirt transition year may have been critical in hindsight. I’m just putting in the assumption that this would have been positively impactful on his education as well.

With that in mind, he’d have been a redshirt junior this year and the guys behind him would’ve had more time to develop as a result. With no other unforeseen events, Bauman may not have even had a chance to start until his redshirt junior season. The timeline of qb development may have been much better instead of younger kids consistently being thrown to the wolves.

I'll go even one step further. If Dak Pru stays, Jordan Hoy stays and we actually get him starting and giving Murray or whoever more time to accustom to the position in college. Granted I dont know that Murray fits the mold we have now, but Prukop stays and buys in, then maybe that influences Jordan and him mentors him.

[CelticCat]

Sometimes I envy our noble brethren to the west. Rarely actually, but I can think of at least one instance I'm certain about. Regardless of any circumstance or overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they think their grizz are the Super Bowl champions. Years like last year where they lose three straight at home including a homecoming loss to Portland State, or stretches where they have a coach like Bob Stitt that was progressively dismantling the program piece by piece, they still think they are the best team in the world and the Bobcats are awful. If you explain the reality of the situation to these grizz fans using all logic and nothing but facts, they will stare off into space for a moment and them come back with a comment on how we are the little brother. They believe they are going to win every single week, and don't bother to process any exceptions to the guaranteed victorious outcome.

Cat fans are a whole different animal and a psychiatrist would have a field day trying to capture the essence of what it truly means to be a diehard and hardcore Cat fan. There's a long history that plays into the diagnosis and although I'm not a psychiatrist, I'll still give my two cents. Many Cat fans are the exact opposite of the run-of-mill grizz fan I described above and have difficulty processing success, and what's more, the better the Cats season is going, the more likely the deep rooted and long-established neuroses will surface. Quite simply, Cats fans have difficulty believing and often don’t dare projecting hope because they fear they will be beat down again like they were in the past.

Seeing these neuroses in this magnitude is a good thing I suppose. It simply means the Cats are playing well and these individuals are trying to guard against the feeling of hope that has betrayed them in the past. The better the season goes, the more we’ll see this neurotic behavior.

I’ll take it. It means we are playing well and still have a chance at a great season.

This may not be a popular post but I believe you are pretty spot on here.