Kane Ioane DC

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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by utucats » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:36 am

VimSince03 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:05 pm
Some insight on Kane's lone season as Co-DC with Jamie Marshall from former players Devin Jeffries (DE) and Rocky Hogue (LS). Kane always had the support of the players.




Game they are referring to: http://www.espn.com/college-football/ga ... /400795564.

A lot of "garbage" yards from ISU in the second half. I remember this game.
Amazing how the players come to the defense of coaches they believe in. This is why I knew Ash needed to go. The players didn’t have his back. They’d come on here at seasons end and take a beating telling us the issues. Hasn’t happened since Ash left.

Welcome back Kane. With Choate at the helm you have a real shot to succeed!


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:35 pm

luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:58 pm
SACCAT wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:44 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:41 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:34 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:29 pm
VimSince03 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:02 pm
These coaching staff additions accompany internal moves. Choate affirmed that Matt Miller remains as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach with Kyle Risinger moving from safeties coach to cornerbacks, and he indicated the process of filling the defensive staff is underway. "We look to hire a veteran coach for our linebackers who will assist in raise this defense to a level of dominance."

Kane will coach safeties. Kyle will coach corners (already in the room with them anyway). Looking to add a "veteran" LB coach to fill out the staff. Before people throw out Roger Cooper's name, he is currently the defensive coordinator at ISU so that would be a step down. Jody Owens maybe? Bobby Daly laterally moving from Idaho? Dane Fletcher perhaps?
The other guy that crossed my mind was clay bignell. I think he’s currently a QC guy at Notre Dame.

I’d also like to think Joey Thomas is still in the mix.
Was Joey ever in the mix?
My mix? Yes.

Choate’s mix? I have no idea.
Joey will be on my show next week....He is not in the mix anymore, but we will cover that with him then...I can say he would LOVE to come back to MSU and Bozeman.
Why aren't we bringing him in? Kid was a shutdown corner in college, did a stint in the NFL, and has had great success coaching Garfield High School.

Choates missing out not bringing JT back in my opinion.
Do not take any of this as a direct slam on Joey Thomas. He's one of my all-time favorite players, and I don't know very much about him as a coach.

Great players don't always make great coaches. There are parts of the game that can be taught, parts of the game that can't be taught but can be learned, and parts of the game that can't be taught or learned. A player who was great because of work habits, perfect technique, or detailed film study? He can pass those on to the players that he coaches. Those things can be taught. A player who was great because of his instincts? He can't pass those on. He wasn't born with them exactly, but he wasn't taught them, either. You get your instinct by playing the game. It's not something you can teach. Same with talent, obviously. You can't teach a guy to be 300lbs and run a 4.8, cause if you could, every team would have a Zach Minter.

That's why you get weird things like a Hall of Fame middle linebacker and the greatest hockey player of all time both ending up as laughable failures in coaching. Mike Singletary may have been the best linebacker of all time, and Gretzky could do thing with the puck that no player before or since could even imagine, but they were great because of talent and instinct that couldn't be handed down.

The first two things that always jumped out at me when watching Thomas play were his athleticism and ball skills. Those aren't things you can teach. I don't have game tape from 20 years ago to scrutinize anyone's footwork (plus even if I did, I'm not an expert on DB technique), and obviously I can't comment at all on how Joey prepared during the week. Maybe he was a full-menu player. But I trust Choate to bring in good coaches on defense, even if those guys didn't stand out in their playing careers.


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by imacat » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:37 pm

VimSince03 wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:05 pm
Some insight on Kane's lone season as Co-DC with Jamie Marshall from former players Devin Jeffries (DE) and Rocky Hogue (LS). Kane always had the support of the players.




Game they are referring to: http://www.espn.com/college-football/ga ... /400795564.

A lot of "garbage" yards from ISU in the second half. I remember this game.
This made me wonder what Jamie Marshall was doing now and I found this ... https://lindenwoodlions.com/staff.aspx?staff=369



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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by CelticCat » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:03 am

I don't think Jamie Marshall was a bad coach by any means, but sometimes things just derail.


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by Cledus » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:11 am

CelticCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:03 am
I don't think Jamie Marshall was a bad coach by any means, but sometimes things just derail.
My problem with Marshall was his inability to accept that something needed to change and his inability to truthfully and honestly evaluate the person in the mirror.

I don't know if it was scheme / X's O's or something else, but my opinion of him forever changed when he dug in his heels, slammed his fist down and yelled, "We run base!" when the defensive performance was rightfully criticized. To me, that demonstrated more than anything he wasn't capable of self-introspection and self-improvement.


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by CelticCat » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:19 am

Cledus wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:11 am
CelticCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:03 am
I don't think Jamie Marshall was a bad coach by any means, but sometimes things just derail.
My problem with Marshall was his inability to accept that something needed to change and his inability to truthfully and honestly evaluate the person in the mirror.

I don't know if it was scheme / X's O's or something else, but my opinion of him forever changed when he dug in his heels, slammed his fist down and yelled, "We run base!" when the defensive performance was rightfully criticized. To me, that demonstrated more than anything he wasn't capable of self-introspection and self-improvement.
Exactly, and that was his downfall. Whether he was stubborn, or just couldn't figure it out, we'll never know. If he didn't have the Joes, his defense fell apart it seemed.


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by VimSince03 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:11 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:19 am
Cledus wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:11 am
CelticCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:03 am
I don't think Jamie Marshall was a bad coach by any means, but sometimes things just derail.
My problem with Marshall was his inability to accept that something needed to change and his inability to truthfully and honestly evaluate the person in the mirror.

I don't know if it was scheme / X's O's or something else, but my opinion of him forever changed when he dug in his heels, slammed his fist down and yelled, "We run base!" when the defensive performance was rightfully criticized. To me, that demonstrated more than anything he wasn't capable of self-introspection and self-improvement.
Exactly, and that was his downfall. Whether he was stubborn, or just couldn't figure it out, we'll never know. If he didn't have the Joes, his defense fell apart it seemed.
I would also argue that he had "the Joes" in 2014 (when the defense really started to struggle). What he didn't have was depth and that was kind of the scapegoat answer for struggles. But that lack of depth came directly from two things: broken recruitment system and broken team camaraderie which are both directly related to culture (what type players do we want to recruit and how do we fit them into our culture). I mean for crying out loud, this was Marshall's defenses in 2014:

2014

DE - Odin Coe/Zach Hutchins
DT - Taylor Sheridan/Nate Bignell
DT - Taylor Dees/Connor Thomas
DE - Devin Jeffries/Tyrone Fa'anono
SLB - Cole Moore
MLB - Na'a Moeakiola/Michael Foster
WLB - Alex Singleton
CB - Bryson Keeton
FS - Robert Marshall
SS - Eryon Barnett
CB - Deonte Flowers
CB -True freshman Bryce Alley and Khari Garcia rotated in for depth

This defense finished 9th in scoring defense (33 points per game), 12th in total defense (487 yards per game), 8th in rushing defense (193 yards per game), 13th (last) in pass defense (294 yards per game), 9th in sacks, 9th in interceptions, and 10th in opponent 3rd-down effic. However, the most amazing stat of all was the MSU's offense was #2 in the league in time of possession yet the defense was 12th in total defensive yards given up per game. What does that mean? It means the defense gave up a ton of big plays and it was extremely easy to move the ball against them. Now here is the thing that really doesn't sit well with me...there was talent on this 2014 defense. Coe, Sheridan, Dees, and Jeffries were not the defensive lines of old but these were tough, physical kids who at least should've been better against the run. The secondary had an All-Big Sky corner (Flowers) and future NFL player (Keeton made the Jets roster for two years) while Marshall and Barnett were physically gifted safeties. And the linebacking unit was arguably one of the best in the league. I know Na'a wasn't his normal self after he came back from that injury to play his senior season but he and Foster were talented backers. And Singleton and Moore were All-Conference worthy linebackers and leaders of the defense. But because of a lack of depth, scheme adjustment, and overall coaching (player development), the 2014 defense was unwatchable at times.

Then Marshall somehow gets a coaching promotion to a FBS school in the offseason so Kane gets the call up from Ash to be the defensive coordinator. Well, the Marshall situation falls through and Ash gives him his job back and makes Marshall/Ioane co-defensive coordinators for the 2015 season. On the defensive side of the ball, MSU loses all of its linebackers and secondary (minus Keeton) to graduation along with Coe and Dees on the defensive line. Since there was no experienced depth on the roster, Ash hit the transfer market hard for the 2015 recruiting class. Here is how the 2015 defense looked:

2015

DE - Tyrone Fa'anono/Shiloh Laboy
DT - Taylor Sheridan/Nate Bignell/Joe Naotala
DT - Connor Thomas/Tucker Yates
DE - Devin Jeffries (injured)/Zach Hutchins/Jessie Clark
SLB - Mac Bignell
MLB - Grant Collins
WLB - Fletcher CollinsBlake Braun
CB - Bryson Keeton/Trace Timmer
FS - Desman Carter/DeMonte King
SS - Bryson McCabe/Khari Garcia
CB - Bryce Alley/Trevon Strong

I mean almost a complete roster overhaul with either transfers or youth from 2014 to 2015. The scoring defense stayed the same, the rushing defense got significantly worse, total defense stayed about the same, pass defense improved a little mostly because teams could run at will against the Cats, dead last in interceptions, and improved the sack numbers to 8th in the league. Basically, despite the co-defensive coordinator tag, the defense was still Marshall's scheme and nothing improved other than younger guys getting experience in some fashion.

Choate/Gregorak come in 2016 and actually roll with most of the 2015 dudes along with throwing in a few true freshman on the defensive line and secondary. I still really don't know how (Mac Bignell and Choate's culture change were the biggest factors) but MSU's defense finished 2016 with the #2 scoring defense, #3 total defense, #3 rushing defense, #8 passing defense, #2 in pass defense efficiency (a major change from years prior), #4 in interceptions, and last in sacks (did I mention converted freshman tight ends were playing on the defensive line by year end?).

Anyway, this three year analysis means player development (coaching) is pivotal, scheme adjustments to player strengths matter, and team culture can produce seemingly impossible results. That 2016 team played for each other on both sides of the ball despite having one of the least talented rosters in the entire league. Choate has now rebuilt it into his vision and now needs to take the next step to get the program back to where Ash had it from 2010-2012. Heck, he needs to get it better than those rosters. These kids love playing for the current coaching staff and being a part of the current team culture put in place by Choate. Hopefully, getting an updated version of Kane Ioane and a young LB coach hungry for the next challenge in his career (Bobby Daly) will take the defense to new heights. Time will tell but I am very excited about where this team is at and where I see it going.


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by wbtfg » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:23 pm

jamie marshalls defense played quarters coverage exclusively. It’s ok to do that from time to time as a wrinkle to cause some confusion, but if the opposing offense can bank in quarters coverage, your defensive secondary is going to get smoked.

That won’t happen this year. I can guarantee that.



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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by CelticCat » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:17 pm

You're missing one key point on that 2014 defense - we were fresh off back to back Buchanan winners, Brad Daly in 2013. We lost Brad Daly, Hayden Vick, Preston Gale along the DL/DE and with that most of our pass rush ability. We had 28 sacks in 2013 in 12 games, in 2014 we dipped to 19 in 13 games. We went from 2.33 sacks per game to 1.46, nearly one sack less per game. Fa'anono was just a true freshman in 2014. Odin Coe never turned into the next all-conference DE everyone thought he would, Dees was an undersized DT who probably should have been DE, and Jeffries was hurt most of his short career. That was a DL that lacked any depth, lacked size and athleticism.

That was a decent pair of starting DBs but it dipped off the map after them. Marshall and Barnett were actually really solid safeties though. There was clearly a coaching issue in the secondary if a guy who had a decent at best career, Keaton, had NFL athleticism and ability. Not sure if that is Marshall, whomever the secondary coach was at the time, or a combination.

And that was a pretty good LB corp, although Na' just wasn't himself that season and Michael Foster just wasn't athletically gifted enough. But overall that group should've been solid.

That defense should've been better but they didn't have the horses for the defense Marshall wanted to play - didn't have any pass rush ability, and no depth in the secondary. And Marshall did nothing to fix the issue.


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by VimSince03 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:18 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:17 pm
You're missing one key point on that 2014 defense - we were fresh off back to back Buchanan winners, Brad Daly in 2013. We lost Brad Daly, Hayden Vick, Preston Gale along the DL/DE and with that most of our pass rush ability. We had 28 sacks in 2013 in 12 games, in 2014 we dipped to 19 in 13 games. We went from 2.33 sacks per game to 1.46, nearly one sack less per game. Fa'anono was just a true freshman in 2014. Odin Coe never turned into the next all-conference DE everyone thought he would, Dees was an undersized DT who probably should have been DE, and Jeffries was hurt most of his short career. That was a DL that lacked any depth, lacked size and athleticism.

That was a decent pair of starting DBs but it dipped off the map after them. Marshall and Barnett were actually really solid safeties though. There was clearly a coaching issue in the secondary if a guy who had a decent at best career, Keaton, had NFL athleticism and ability. Not sure if that is Marshall, whomever the secondary coach was at the time, or a combination.

And that was a pretty good LB corp, although Na' just wasn't himself that season and Michael Foster just wasn't athletically gifted enough. But overall that group should've been solid.

That defense should've been better but they didn't have the horses for the defense Marshall wanted to play - didn't have any pass rush ability, and no depth in the secondary. And Marshall did nothing to fix the issue.
Agreed.


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by 94VegasCat » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:20 pm

So Choate has mentioned that UW is the best at running “that” type of defense. What is “that” type of defense? How does it differ from what we’ve been doing?

I’m not a fan of the bend but don’t break.


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by Norsky19 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:07 am

94VegasCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:20 pm
So Choate has mentioned that UW is the best at running “that” type of defense. What is “that” type of defense? How does it differ from what we’ve been doing?

I’m not a fan of the bend but don’t break.
Agreed. I love the Clemson defense of lots of disguised movement and varied blitz schemes. Just my preference.



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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by gtapp » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:58 am

Norsky19 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:07 am
94VegasCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:20 pm
So Choate has mentioned that UW is the best at running “that” type of defense. What is “that” type of defense? How does it differ from what we’ve been doing?

I’m not a fan of the bend but don’t break.
Agreed. I love the Clemson defense of lots of disguised movement and varied blitz schemes. Just my preference.
The Clemson DC is the highest paid coordinator in college football ($2.5M).


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by bobcat99 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:58 pm

Norsky19 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:07 am
94VegasCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:20 pm
So Choate has mentioned that UW is the best at running “that” type of defense. What is “that” type of defense? How does it differ from what we’ve been doing?

I’m not a fan of the bend but don’t break.
Agreed. I love the Clemson defense of lots of disguised movement and varied blitz schemes. Just my preference.
You can do that when you have more talent than pretty much everybody. We're not quite there yet.



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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by catatac » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:07 pm

94VegasCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:20 pm
So Choate has mentioned that UW is the best at running “that” type of defense. What is “that” type of defense? How does it differ from what we’ve been doing?

I’m not a fan of the bend but don’t break.
Beats the hell our of bend AND break :D


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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by Norsky19 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:12 am

catatac wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:07 pm
94VegasCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:20 pm
So Choate has mentioned that UW is the best at running “that” type of defense. What is “that” type of defense? How does it differ from what we’ve been doing?

I’m not a fan of the bend but don’t break.
Beats the hell our of bend AND break :D
Good point! I still like lots of different blitz packages...not ever letting a QB set his back foot, make them pass on the run, disrupt timing. It can be a live by the sword, die by the sword deal but....I loved playing that style myself, pin your ears back. :) :twisted:



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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by Norsky19 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:16 am

bobcat99 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:58 pm
Norsky19 wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:07 am
94VegasCat wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:20 pm
So Choate has mentioned that UW is the best at running “that” type of defense. What is “that” type of defense? How does it differ from what we’ve been doing?

I’m not a fan of the bend but don’t break.
Agreed. I love the Clemson defense of lots of disguised movement and varied blitz schemes. Just my preference.
You can do that when you have more talent than pretty much everybody. We're not quite there yet.
Respectfully disagree. A team with more talent can just sit in a base defense..whatever they run and just dominate because of talent. Less talented or physically smaller defenses often have to do more scheming and stunts to disrupt an offense. Gap control works if you got the beef.



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Re: Kane Ioane DC

Post by Hawks86 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:54 pm



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