Will they stay or will they go...PART 2

[Bobcat4Ever]

I keep wondering if it's more a matter of QB development than it is recruitment. Our guys are coming to us actually looking pretty good, and often with other offers.

In Coach Choate's first year, who was the QB coach? Was it Coach Messingham? If so, how was that going? Coach McGhee was brought in for year 2, and was that idea to hire a QB Coach already in mind before Coach Messingham left? So it was Coach McGhee, and how was that going? He was moved aside after just one year in order for Coach Cole to take over, and it looks like that one did not go well at all. Now it's Coach Miller, and he might have his plate pretty full without also coaching QBs, which would seem like a pretty big job in itself.

Offensive (passing and running game) coordinators? Same deal, basically four or five in three years.

I'm not really thinking much about how good our guys, Rovig and Bauman and Beltran (and even Andersen or Murray) are, but how good could they be? Have they had the best chance of developing, building on every day and practice and year? I'm really more concerned about the recruitment and choosing of coaching staff for the QB position than I am players.

Just my thoughts that keep going around and around...

[topey711]

Just wanted to clarify something that some are saying. Choate was not the one who chose to honor the Ash commits. The AD announced shortly after Ash was fired that the School would honor all previous offers. This was before Choate was even hired. Choate had no choice in the matter.

[iaafan]

Choate would have honored all the “commits” but that isn’t the discussion. We’re talking about recruiting, pre-commitment, and who should be credited with bringing in Chris Murray. Bsmith, kittieKop and onceacat all consider Murray to be an Ash recruit, not a Choate recruit. I disagree completely and I think the reason they don’t want to credit Choate is simply that those three are diehard Ash fans. Ash was recruiting Murray, but Murray didn’t commit until long after Ash was gone.

[KittieKop]

Murray visited campus on January 23-24, 2016. He committed (to Choate) the Monday or Tuesday after. Ash was fired November 22, 2015.

When did he commit? He very likely committed to Choate. When was he offered? It would appear back in October 2015. Unless TomCatt88 pulled this out of his rearend:

This may have been posted already.

MSU offered 6-4, 195 QB Chris Murray out of Lawndale HS in Ingelwood, Calif. He's completing over 70% of his passes and is averaging 17 yards per carry. I believe the Bobcats are his first offer. About ten minutes later EWU offered him. His team won 62-0 last night.

Probably fair to say he was an Ash recruit, signed by Choate.

Thanks for finding that KK.

It doesn’t matter who offered him a scholarship. Lots of coaches probably offered him one. A player can have a multitude of recruiters. Only one can call him their recruit. That’s the coach he verbally commits to and ultimately signs with. So Murray is a Choate recruit.

We should probably change the "Recruits" discussion thread titles then, since none of them on there are MSU recruits. What are they, "offered athletes?" They only become recruits when they're signed? So is it really "recruiting day" in February when all the athletes send in those letters? Thought it was "signing day". So they become "recruits" after signing? I thought you were a recruit when you were, you know, recruited....offered to come here.

So you’re calling Murray an Ash recruit? Even though he never committed to Ash? Please answer “yes.” Are all the players that committed to other schools also Ash recruits? Every single UM player that Ash tried to get to MSU isn’t avPflugrad or Delaney or Stitt recruit, they’re all Ash recruits, because if Ash tries recruiting that kid he’s Ash’s recruit and not the coach that player actually committed to.

Okay, I got it now. Thanks. Chris Murray, who committed and signed for Jeff Choate is a Rob Ash recruit, not a jeff Choate recruit. Thanks for enlightening me. The real reason Murray came to MSU is Ash. Even though he was fired two months before Murray committed.

The Marine Corps Recruit Depot is probably a boot camp for the Army. Since the Army was also recruiting some of those recruits who just happen to be at MCRD.

This is fun. I like it. If I try to date Jessica Alba and she says no and goes out with someone else I can now say she’s my date.

Whatever Tom. You truly don't see the difference between being recruited (being asked out as you put it) and being signed (actually going on the date)? So if you're recruited by the Army, you can't also be recruited by the Navy at the same time? I'm done, this is stupid.

[iaafan]

Qb coaches have changed each year. 2016 Messingham, 17 McGhee 18 Cole.

[iaafan]

[quote=KittieKop post_id=653718 time=1543932253 user_id=9976]
[quote=TomCat88 post_id=653706 time=1543903398 user_id=12959]
[quote=KittieKop post_id=653697 time=1543898422 user_id=9976]
[quote=TomCat88 post_id=653688 time=1543894101 user_id=12959]
[quote=onceacat post_id=653673 time=1543889494 user_id=17048]
[quote=KittieKop post_id=653665 time=1543887351 user_id=9976]
[quote=iaafan post_id=653620 time=1543868171 user_id=170]
Murray visited campus on January 23-24, 2016. He committed (to Choate) the Monday or Tuesday after. Ash was fired November 22, 2015.
[/quote]

When did he commit? He very likely committed to Choate. When was he offered? It would appear back in October 2015. Unless TomCatt88 pulled this out of his rearend:

[quote=TomCat88 post_id=536790 time=1445087031 user_id=12959]
This may have been posted already.

MSU offered 6-4, 195 QB Chris Murray out of Lawndale HS in Ingelwood, Calif. He's completing over 70% of his passes and is averaging 17 yards per carry. I believe the Bobcats are his first offer. About ten minutes later EWU offered him. His team won 62-0 last night.
[/quote]

Probably fair to say he was an Ash recruit, signed by Choate.
[/quote]

Thanks for finding that KK.
[/quote]
It doesn’t matter who offered him a scholarship. Lots of coaches probably offered him one. A player can have a multitude of recruiters. Only one can call him their recruit. That’s the coach he verbally commits to and ultimately signs with. So Murray is a Choate recruit.
[/quote]

We should probably change the "Recruits" discussion thread titles then, since none of them on there are MSU recruits. What are they, "offered athletes?" They only become recruits when they're signed? So is it really "recruiting day" in February when all the athletes send in those letters? Thought it was "signing day". So they become "recruits" after signing? I thought you were a recruit when you were, you know, recruited....offered to come here.
[/quote]

So you’re calling Murray an Ash recruit? Even though he never committed to Ash? Please answer “yes.” Are all the players that committed to other schools also Ash recruits? Every single UM player that Ash tried to get to MSU isn’t avPflugrad or Delaney or Stitt recruit, they’re all Ash recruits, because if Ash tries recruiting that kid he’s Ash’s recruit and not the coach that player actually committed to.

Okay, I got it now. Thanks. Chris Murray, who committed and signed for Jeff Choate is a Rob Ash recruit, not a jeff Choate recruit. Thanks for enlightening me. The real reason Murray came to MSU is Ash. Even though he was fired two months before Murray committed.

The Marine Corps Recruit Depot is probably a boot camp for the Army. Since the Army was also recruiting some of those recruits who just happen to be at MCRD.

This is fun. I like it. If I try to date Jessica Alba and she says no and goes out with someone else I can now say she’s my date.
[/quote]

Whatever Tom. You truly don't see the difference between being recruited (being asked out as you put it) and being signed (actually going on the date)? So if you're recruited by the Army, you can't also be recruited by the Navy at the same time? I'm done, this is stupid.
[/quote]



Dude. You’re the one that’s completely lost in this conversation. You don’t get to call someone your recruit after they’ve signed elsewhere. Give credit where credit is due and move on. Murray is a Choate recruit.

[DriscollCat]

This is way more attention than the question “who gets credit” deserves, but let me distill what you guys seem to be saying in a less aggressive/confrontational manner, so we might actually be able to walk away without jumping down each other’s throats.

A recruit is a recruit when they are being recruited, or being courted to join at least 1 FB team.

When we say that Chris is Coach X’s recruit, we are assessing the credit for winning that player over and crediting that coach.

This is complicated for Chris because he had only one offer on the table, and that offer was guaranteed by the MSU AD. This means that while Ash initiated contact with Chris and extended an offer, he was not able to accept Chris’s verbal or written commitments. Choate was able to, but didn’t have the choice not to.

It seems that Ash deserves some credit for identifying a talent that a lot of others missed out on, but in the end, he wasn’t here to accept Chris’s commitment.

In light of the fact that the offers were guaranteed by the AD, makes it difficult to give Choate much credit for recruiting him, though he probably deserves a good bit of credit for keeping him on, especially through an academic situation that easily could have seen him leave for a myriad of reasons.

If there is some part of this which is incorrect, or which you disagree with, feel free to correct it or pose a counter argument. No need to be belittling if my understanding is missing some finer detail, just explain and I will understand without becoming defensive.

[iaafan]

That was well done, but the offers were not held by the AD, just the commits. Murray hadn’t committed to Ash, but he was offered. Murray had more than one offer. EWU offered him shortly after MSU

[DriscollCat]

That was well done, but the offers were not held by the AD, just the commits. Murray hadn’t committed to Ash, but he was offered. Murray had more than one offer. EWU offered him shortly after MSU

Thanks.

I think a poster said above that once Berrier committed to EWU, Chris’s offer was rescinded.

If Choate had the option to withdraw Chris’s offer and didn’t, then he deserves additional credit.

[iaafan]

I don’t think it’s a matter of if. Ash had numerous offers out there. I can’t imagine a coach accepting a job with the stipulation that he had to accept a commitment from every player the previous coach was offering. Many of those players wouldn’t fit the coaches schemes and there literally isn’t room for all of them.

[ilovethecats]

I don’t think it’s a matter of if. Ash had numerous offers out there. I can’t imagine a coach accepting a job with the stipulation that he had to accept a commitment from every player the previous coach was offering. Many of those players wouldn’t fit the coaches schemes and there literally isn’t room for all of them.

Exactly. People are REALLY overthinking this and it honestly doesn’t matter. We landed a hell of a talent. Hopefully we see that talent back on the field this season!

[Cataholic]

That was well done, but the offers were not held by the AD, just the commits. Murray hadn’t committed to Ash, but he was offered. Murray had more than one offer. EWU offered him shortly after MSU

Thanks.

I think a poster said above that once Berrier committed to EWU, Chris’s offer was rescinded.

If Choate had the option to withdraw Chris’s offer and didn’t, then he deserves additional credit.

Choate had an opportunity to rescind the offer to Murray. Chris did not commit to MSU right away. He was waiting for EWU to decide who they wanted and EWU went with Barriere. To think that an offer is forever guaranteed by the AD is not realistic. If a recruit doesn’t accept the offer, every coach has the right to offer it to someone else. Instead, Coach Choate persisted in his recruitment of Murray. Who do you think that Murray would say he is a recruit of? Would it be the former coach who was fired in November, or Choate who was recruiting him in January and convinced him to come to MSU?

[Cataholic]

Choate would have honored all the “commits” but that isn’t the discussion. We’re talking about recruiting, pre-commitment, and who should be credited with bringing in Chris Murray. Bsmith, kittieKop and onceacat all consider Murray to be an Ash recruit, not a Choate recruit. I disagree completely and I think the reason they don’t want to credit Choate is simply that those three are diehard Ash fans. Ash was recruiting Murray, but Murray didn’t commit until long after Ash was gone.

I am starting to think that they are “Choate haters” more than “Ash supporters”. They refuse to give Choate credit for anything.

[DriscollCat]

Why does everything always have to become personal?

[bobcat99]

Why does everything always have to become personal?

More entertaining.

[CelticCat]

This has been a weird year on BN. We will argue literally anything, and do so for multiple pages.

[BleedingBLue]

This has been a weird year on BN. We will argue literally anything, and do so for multiple pages.

It's TA's fault

[BigBruceBaker]

This has been a weird year on BN. We will argue literally anything, and do so for multiple pages.

Having a few losing seasons and some unrealistic expectations have made some people real weird. I also think we have several griz posters hiding behind "bobcat" names.

[Hawks86]

One of the top candidates for the NAU job is Boise State WR coach Eric Kiesau. I'd have to guess that Miller would accept that position at Boise,if offered, and Choate goes a different direction at OC.

[Bsmithmsu]

Doesn’t matter who recruited Murray at this point we have to call it a failure per say, due to the fact he is no longer our QB when he should have been.