On our offense

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On our offense

Post by GoldstoneCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:18 am

It's pretty clear we have our personnel set on offense now, so this thread isn't intended for a discussion on that. What I want to know is what you guys think is the best way for us to improve our efficiency within the offense. I'll start with a couple. The first and most obvious to me is to throw more off hard play-action. The passing game we're trying to run requires the ball be thrown quick, before receivers come out of breaks many times, and it looks clunky and isn't often high-percentage. Giving Andersen some schemed play action off our run game seems to make sense. Second, I liked Troy's decision making and timing in the zone run game this week as much as I have all year; he seemed to have a good feel for the rhythm and timing of it, so more of that instead of straight called runs for him. Third, to beat this dead horse some more, I want more travis jonsen in our life. 8-10 touches. Discuss.



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Re: On our offense

Post by CatsNoMatterWhat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:41 am

Great topic.

I mentioned in a previous thread that we are WAY to reliant on Troy busting an 80 yard run in the 2nd half to keep us in the game or give us the lead. I'm not any kind of expert so as far as "how" we prevent this--that's coaching stuff--but we need to find a way to sustain and get in the end zone in the first half. For all his strengths (and there are many), Troy has not been an effective passer. One would think that the quick snap passes would be great for him, but he missed some of those vs. Idaho...if the staff can calm him down early and get him comfortable throwing 3-5 yards consistently, I think it will open up lots of options.



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Re: On our offense

Post by Cataholic » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:44 am

GoldstoneCat wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:18 am
It's pretty clear we have our personnel set on offense now, so this thread isn't intended for a discussion on that. What I want to know is what you guys think is the best way for us to improve our efficiency within the offense. I'll start with a couple. The first and most obvious to me is to throw more off hard play-action. The passing game we're trying to run requires the ball be thrown quick, before receivers come out of breaks many times, and it looks clunky and isn't often high-percentage. Giving Andersen some schemed play action off our run game seems to make sense. Second, I liked Troy's decision making and timing in the zone run game this week as much as I have all year; he seemed to have a good feel for the rhythm and timing of it, so more of that instead of straight called runs for him. Third, to beat this dead horse some more, I want more travis jonsen in our life. 8-10 touches. Discuss.
Agreed on all points. I don’t understand why we are not seeing more play action calls. I would also incorporate Jonsen into those calls. A simple fake handoff to pull the linebacker out of coverage and then pass in the seam or flat to Jonsen could be deadly. Also, could utilize more of our talented tight ends on such plays.

Strangely, we did not see any option last week. Minus the one bad toss, it seemed very effective. Can you imagine an Anderson/Jonsen option combo?



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Re: On our offense

Post by Cataholic » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:48 am

CatsNoMatterWhat wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:41 am
Great topic.

I mentioned in a previous thread that we are WAY to reliant on Troy busting an 80 yard run in the 2nd half to keep us in the game or give us the lead. I'm not any kind of expert so as far as "how" we prevent this--that's coaching stuff--but we need to find a way to sustain and get in the end zone in the first half. For all his strengths (and there are many), Troy has not been an effective passer. One would think that the quick snap passes would be great for him, but he missed some of those vs. Idaho...if the staff can calm him down early and get him comfortable throwing 3-5 yards consistently, I think it will open up lots of options.
My concern on those quick passes was Idaho knew they were coming. They were jumping those routes and we are lucky no pick six occurred. Watch next time we line up three to one side, it is almost guaranteed to be a quick pass to the outside. And what really is puzzling, is that those quick hits are only for a couple of yards. It seems like a high risk - low reward play. Next time, fake the short quick hit and drop one over the top to Jonsen.



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Re: On our offense

Post by GoldstoneCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:59 am

Agreed on the quick passes, I have always viewed that more as taking what the defense is giving, rather than trying to open the field up using them. Like you said Cataholic, pick-6 seems in the offing if we keep that up. The 60-yard td is a perfect example, to me, of letting troy play QB with his natural athleticism, rather than force feeding it. The pass routes to the field side created that run. I guess the best way to sum up what I'd like to see the next 5 plus games is using a bit more "traditional" play calling, with designed TA runs sprinkled in. I think that's what we got the second half Saturday, and we had some nice offensive rhythm going for 3-4 series there it seemed like.



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Re: On our offense

Post by Cataholic » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:26 am

Another head scratcher that Choate alluded to was our slow starts. Specifically, our lines on both sides were being manhandled in the first quarter. After that, we seemed to wake up and dominate at times. We have to get out of the gates stronger. I know Choate is really frustrated with those slow starts.



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Re: On our offense

Post by GoldstoneCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:54 am

Cataholic wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:26 am
Another head scratcher that Choate alluded to was our slow starts. Specifically, our lines on both sides were being manhandled in the first quarter. After that, we seemed to wake up and dominate at times. We have to get out of the gates stronger. I know Choate is really frustrated with those slow starts.
We won't be able to afford to start slow these next 2 weeks, with Weber being so suffocating on defense, and Idaho State capable of running away and hiding in the first quarter and a half on offense, we'll need to establish some rhythm early on, and stay on the field. Would love to see some early play-action, like we discussed above, as a means to loosen things up, in lieu of the quick-hit game outside.



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Re: On our offense

Post by Cledus » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:06 am

I think the theory on those wide receiver screens we started the game with aren't intended to gain a lot of yards, they're to try and open up the middle of the field for downhill runs. At least that's how Oregon uses the wide receiver screen; using the jab to set up the combination.

Idaho batted down a few early. I'm not sure if that was due to bad execution on our part, or good play making on Idaho's part. I think the coaching staff knew coming in we'd hit pay dirt up the middle, but we couldn't seem to get it going early and sort of just fell back into our bad habits.

I'm not really sure how to beat a team like Weber. I'm guessing we'll need lots of short, quick strikes, or dink and dunk. In conference games, we've actually scored more points than them. At a minimum, I think we need to take the lead first.


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Re: On our offense

Post by technoCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:11 am

I actually saw some things that last two weeks that really make me feel like the coaches know what is wrong and are trying to fix it but they need to find the right mix and consistency in plays.

1. Against EWU, we finally started throwing over the middle to Patterson. The middle is almost always open because we are so predictably throwing to the outside. Just dropping the ball over the middle for 5 yards to Patterson or Sullivan more often would open things up a lot. TEs definitely need to be used more in any way possible.
2. Stop being predictable out of sets. As Cataholic mentioned, a 3 WR set almost always indicates a quick pass to that side and Idaho figured it out and knocked passes down instead of bothering to rush Troy. Fake those and run a quick RB draw up the middle or pump fake and throw over the middle. The other one I noticed was if Tucker was in you knew it wasn't going to him. For whatever reason they only seem to think Ifanse can run the ball.
3. THROW MORE BOMBS!!! We have like a 50% completion percentage on throws over 30 yards and it always seems to trigger momentum for our offense. Even if you are just throwing it away, make the defense defend the field. Jonsen and McCutcheon have shown the ability to get open deep.


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Re: On our offense

Post by technoCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:14 am

Cledus wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:06 am
I think the theory on those wide receiver screens we started the game with aren't intended to gain a lot of yards, they're to try and open up the middle of the field for downhill runs. At least that's how Oregon uses the wide receiver screen; using the jab to set up the combination.

Idaho batted down a few early. I'm not sure if that was due to bad execution on our part, or good play making on Idaho's part. I think the coaching staff knew coming in we'd hit pay dirt up the middle, but we couldn't seem to get it going early and sort of just fell back into our bad habits.

I'm not really sure how to beat a team like Weber. I'm guessing we'll need lots of short, quick strikes, or dink and dunk. In conference games, we've actually scored more points than them. At a minimum, I think we need to take the lead first.
Weber is setup way better for us to pull the upset. They rarely score over 20 so even if they shut us down for the most part, we could hit a couple big plays and stay in striking range. It will be a slugfest just like Idaho I think. Maybe less than 20 scored between both teams.

ISU is going to be tough. I just don't think we can score points to stay with them and it will be similar to our other 2 losses. Fingers crossed I'm wrong though.


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Re: On our offense

Post by CelticCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:17 am

We need to get better converting 3rd and shorts. We line up in power formation, everyone knows it’s coming, and I think we really missed Natee Saturday and sounds like might be out for the year.

Where is RJ Fitzgerald?


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Re: On our offense

Post by technoCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am

CelticCat wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:17 am
We need to get better converting 3rd and shorts. We line up in power formation, everyone knows it’s coming, and I think we really missed Natee Saturday and sounds like might be out for the year.

Where is RJ Fitzgerald?
Natee out for the year?!! I thought I heard it wasn't serious... Jeez we just can't catch a break. QBs and RBs dropping like flies all year(Murray, Rovig, Jonsen, Andersen, Jones, Burgess, Natee x2, Ifanse, Tucker).


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Re: On our offense

Post by CelticCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:37 am

Well obviously don't quote me on that, just what I've heard.


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Re: On our offense

Post by Hawks86 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:43 am

POST-GAME NEWS & NOTES
Injury Report: Out Indefinitely –LB Josh Hill, WR Jabarri Johnson, RB Logan Jones, QB Tucker Rovig, RB Tyler Natee.
https://msubobcats.com/news/2018/10/14/ ... urday.aspx


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Re: On our offense

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:55 am

technoCat wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am
CelticCat wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:17 am
We need to get better converting 3rd and shorts. We line up in power formation, everyone knows it’s coming, and I think we really missed Natee Saturday and sounds like might be out for the year.

Where is RJ Fitzgerald?
Natee out for the year?!! I thought I heard it wasn't serious... Jeez we just can't catch a break. QBs and RBs dropping like flies all year(Murray, Rovig, Jonsen, Andersen, Jones, Burgess, Natee x2, Ifanse, Tucker).
Natee may be done for his career. He has back and shoulder issues that may force him to retire from the sport. Has played through pain for a while.


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Re: On our offense

Post by technoCat » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:13 am

VimSince03 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:55 am
technoCat wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:24 am
CelticCat wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:17 am
We need to get better converting 3rd and shorts. We line up in power formation, everyone knows it’s coming, and I think we really missed Natee Saturday and sounds like might be out for the year.

Where is RJ Fitzgerald?
Natee out for the year?!! I thought I heard it wasn't serious... Jeez we just can't catch a break. QBs and RBs dropping like flies all year(Murray, Rovig, Jonsen, Andersen, Jones, Burgess, Natee x2, Ifanse, Tucker).
Natee may be done for his career. He has back and shoulder issues that may force him to retire from the sport. Has played through pain for a while.
Well that sucks if we will never see him live up to his potential here but better to hang it up before he does irreversible damage. Hope the best for him.


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Re: On our offense

Post by mslacatfan » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:27 am

yup.... I have been as frustrated as anyone with TA playing QB (not a knock on TA, just the unfortunate situation, TA is a beast). But it is what it is at this point, especially with the new injury to Rovig.

Random Note: Did anyone else catch this toward the end of the game- when TA passed it to Jonsen in the endzone, went incomplete, Jonsen should/could have caught it.... ANYWAY, did anyone else notice how TA got pressured, went to Run like he always does (had an open field also), but last second he actually stopped running, stepped back into the pocket, scanned the field and fired that pass to Jonsen…..

This is the first time I have actually seen TA do this (and it should have resulted in a TD pass). If he can learn to use his athleticism to extend the potential PASSING play... man, that would really help improve his overall game at the QB position. This is what Denarius used to accel at. He could run with the best of them, but more times then not he would scramble to extend the passing play, not scramble to run.

Anyway, that was the first time I have really noticed TA actually do that... which was impressive, and a sign of him learning how to improve at this position. (Jonsen just needs to catch it, ha)


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Re: On our offense

Post by bobcatfan123 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:31 pm

Cledus wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:06 am
I think the theory on those wide receiver screens we started the game with aren't intended to gain a lot of yards, they're to try and open up the middle of the field for downhill runs. At least that's how Oregon uses the wide receiver screen; using the jab to set up the combination.

Idaho batted down a few early. I'm not sure if that was due to bad execution on our part, or good play making on Idaho's part. I think the coaching staff knew coming in we'd hit pay dirt up the middle, but we couldn't seem to get it going early and sort of just fell back into our bad habits.

I'm not really sure how to beat a team like Weber. I'm guessing we'll need lots of short, quick strikes, or dink and dunk. In conference games, we've actually scored more points than them. At a minimum, I think we need to take the lead first.
We are not really set up to do bubble screens very well. Ideally, defenders need to be playing off the line of scrimmage and ball placement is critical. Defenders are unlikely to give our WR;s much space as we don't have a legitimate passing attack. Also we don't have a super accurate qb that can put the ball EXACTLY where it needs to be. Thought this was a good resource on how easily the bubble screen can go awry.

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2017/ ... ble-screen



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Re: On our offense

Post by 84CatGrad » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:40 pm

I hate bubble screens. High risk low reward and I don't think Troy is ready to put the ball in just the right place consistently. I liked the quick hitches to McCutcheon we threw a couple times. Easy passes, quick 5-8 yards. I also liked Ifanse getting more carries. Kassis seemed invisible on Saturday and was surprised to see he had three catches. We need him getting 6-8 catches of any kind.

I continue to have faith that Choate has a plan and it is still developing.



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Re: On our offense

Post by The MICKSTER » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:58 pm

Even though Tucker Rovig is/was 'Out for the Season' on SA, he was still listed as #2 on depth chart with no one at #3.

Is Bauman going to be #2 this week vs Weber or will Jonsen be #2....anyone know?



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