Refs were the WORST

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ilovethecats
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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm

TIrwin24 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:59 pm
110010110 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:22 pm
I don't think the refs were biased in any way, but it's clear they had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

It should not take a five man conference a minute and a half to determine a forward pass that is deflected backwards is not a fumble.
That's not true. By the end of the second quarter we were penalized 7 times compared to UI being flagged 1 time. It was way skewed in favor of the Vandals.
Unless of course we committed penalties....



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by wbtfg » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:29 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm
TIrwin24 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:59 pm
110010110 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:22 pm
I don't think the refs were biased in any way, but it's clear they had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

It should not take a five man conference a minute and a half to determine a forward pass that is deflected backwards is not a fumble.
That's not true. By the end of the second quarter we were penalized 7 times compared to UI being flagged 1 time. It was way skewed in favor of the Vandals.
Unless of course we committed penalties....
The defensive delay of game penalties were terrible.



ilovethecats
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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:35 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:29 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm
TIrwin24 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:59 pm
110010110 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:22 pm
I don't think the refs were biased in any way, but it's clear they had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

It should not take a five man conference a minute and a half to determine a forward pass that is deflected backwards is not a fumble.
That's not true. By the end of the second quarter we were penalized 7 times compared to UI being flagged 1 time. It was way skewed in favor of the Vandals.
Unless of course we committed penalties....
The defensive delay of game penalties were terrible.
I thought so too. But on at least one of them i thought the explanation was that our defense was interrupting their cadence vocally. Without being able to hear what’s going on in the trenches, that seems logical. But who knows?

I guess my main point is 7-1 in terms of penalties doesn’t mean the refs were biased. Sometimes it just means we committed too many penalties.



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by 110010110 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:57 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:29 pm
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:25 pm
TIrwin24 wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:59 pm
110010110 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:22 pm
I don't think the refs were biased in any way, but it's clear they had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

It should not take a five man conference a minute and a half to determine a forward pass that is deflected backwards is not a fumble.
That's not true. By the end of the second quarter we were penalized 7 times compared to UI being flagged 1 time. It was way skewed in favor of the Vandals.
Unless of course we committed penalties....
The defensive delay of game penalties were terrible.
Yes, they where and I still don't understand those ones. I refuse to believe our defensive players where shouting out fake cadence's twice on the same drive. I would love to know what explanation the ref gave coach on that one.

But I still maintain the refs were not biased, even with the lopsided penalty count. It's not like they where sitting in the locker room before the game talking about their plan to screw over the Cats by calling 7 penalties on them in the first half. Those refs don't care who wins the football game. They're just really, really bad at their job. The league already tried suspending them but it didn't seem to do much good. Perhaps they should just take them off the schedule completely.



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by Long Time Cat » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 pm

rtb wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:40 pm
mslacatfan wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:54 pm
Why is the Conference okay with this sub par officiating???

Every team and fanbase has been complaining about these morons for the last 15 years..... it is a fricking joke.
Who are you going to replace them with? Nearly every state is dealing with a major shortage of officials as no one wants to put up with the crazy crap they get from coaches, parents, players, etc. Sadly the pool of people willing/wanting to officiate is shrinking fast.
rtb nailed it. This is the problem.


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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by Cataholic » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:11 pm

Long Time Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 pm
rtb wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:40 pm
mslacatfan wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:54 pm
Why is the Conference okay with this sub par officiating???

Every team and fanbase has been complaining about these morons for the last 15 years..... it is a fricking joke.
Who are you going to replace them with? Nearly every state is dealing with a major shortage of officials as no one wants to put up with the crazy crap they get from coaches, parents, players, etc. Sadly the pool of people willing/wanting to officiate is shrinking fast.
rtb nailed it. This is the problem.
Just curious, but what does a Big Sky ref make for each game?



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:14 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:11 pm
Long Time Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 pm
rtb wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:40 pm
mslacatfan wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:54 pm
Why is the Conference okay with this sub par officiating???

Every team and fanbase has been complaining about these morons for the last 15 years..... it is a fricking joke.
Who are you going to replace them with? Nearly every state is dealing with a major shortage of officials as no one wants to put up with the crazy crap they get from coaches, parents, players, etc. Sadly the pool of people willing/wanting to officiate is shrinking fast.
rtb nailed it. This is the problem.
Just curious, but what does a Big Sky ref make for each game?
The fan in me says way to much.

The nice person that I am in me says no where near what they should to put up with the ****** they do for 3 hours every weekend.

Also....I have no clue.



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by Colter_Nuanez » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:16 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:14 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:11 pm
Long Time Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 pm
rtb wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:40 pm
mslacatfan wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:54 pm
Why is the Conference okay with this sub par officiating???

Every team and fanbase has been complaining about these morons for the last 15 years..... it is a fricking joke.
Who are you going to replace them with? Nearly every state is dealing with a major shortage of officials as no one wants to put up with the crazy crap they get from coaches, parents, players, etc. Sadly the pool of people willing/wanting to officiate is shrinking fast.
rtb nailed it. This is the problem.
Just curious, but what does a Big Sky ref make for each game?
The fan in me says way to much.

The nice person that I am in me says no where near what they should to put up with the ****** they do for 3 hours every weekend.

Also....I have no clue.
FCS referees get paid between $125 and $775 a game including per diem. Most "power" FBS conferences like the Big Sky pay their officials between $500 and $750 per game.

If you think that's a lot, the average game stipend for Division I men's basketball officials that are part of the Western Officials Consortium is $1,440 per game. Hoops refs in the Power 5 that do big-time ACC or Big XII games get paid at least $2,000 and sometimes as much as $3,000 per game.



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by CelticCat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:03 am

$500 is not much. I imagine that they need to fly most of the time, which likely means they’d need to come out the night before. Probably need at least an hour pregame, more like 2. Game lasts say 3.5 hours. 5.5 hours of work for $500, which isn’t taking into consideration how much time you spent traveling and being away from home. You probably have to hang around for a few more hours until your flight too.


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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by DriscollCat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:04 am

CelticCat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:03 am
$500 is not much. I imagine that they need to fly most of the time, which likely means they’d need to come out the night before. Probably need at least an hour pregame, more like 2. Game lasts say 3.5 hours. 5.5 hours of work for $500, which isn’t taking into consideration how much time you spent traveling and being away from home. You probably have to hang around for a few more hours until your flight too.
Plus, you have to be an expert at the rules of college football and adjudicating them. It’s not like flipping burgers.

AND you have to spend the time it takes to stay up on all the changing rules and new league interpretations of existing rules.

That pay sucks. No way I would put up with the garbage they do for that much money.



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by Mtcatfan » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:58 am

They probably got booed the worst on the blocked punt that we returned for a TD. Ironically it was the correct call. That's what makes it so hard - having to make the right call knowing full well how badly you will get hammered by the fans.



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by CelticCat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:05 am

Exactly. There is a reason the leagues protect refs so much. Because if they didn't, who the hell would do it?

It's an extremely hard job, even harder than you think and I imagine most reasonable people think it's pretty hard to begin with. I was a linesman (which is where most new refs start) and there was a punt, fielded, tackled, normal. Problem is there was a penalty behind the line of scrimmage and my chain crew had already ran downfield to where the play had ended and I hadn't marked where the original LOS was so we literally had to guess where it was to mark off the penalty. It's my fault 100%, but I'm only saying it is easier than you think to miss things in real time. There were multiple times in my brief 3 year career where we got pretty confused what down it was, but I was never a part of a crew that got it wrong. But we had discussions.

We were so short in my association that I ended up officiating 2 varsity Friday night games in my very first year.


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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by BleedingBLue » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:06 am

Sign me up. Nobody has to know I'm a Cats fan and I'll make sure all the holding penalties are called :lol:



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by Cataholic » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:45 am

Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:16 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:14 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:11 pm
Long Time Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 pm
rtb wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:40 pm
mslacatfan wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:54 pm
Why is the Conference okay with this sub par officiating???

Every team and fanbase has been complaining about these morons for the last 15 years..... it is a fricking joke.
Who are you going to replace them with? Nearly every state is dealing with a major shortage of officials as no one wants to put up with the crazy crap they get from coaches, parents, players, etc. Sadly the pool of people willing/wanting to officiate is shrinking fast.
rtb nailed it. This is the problem.
Just curious, but what does a Big Sky ref make for each game?
The fan in me says way to much.

The nice person that I am in me says no where near what they should to put up with the ****** they do for 3 hours every weekend.

Also....I have no clue.
FCS referees get paid between $125 and $775 a game including per diem. Most "power" FBS conferences like the Big Sky pay their officials between $500 and $750 per game.

If you think that's a lot, the average game stipend for Division I men's basketball officials that are part of the Western Officials Consortium is $1,440 per game. Hoops refs in the Power 5 that do big-time ACC or Big XII games get paid at least $2,000 and sometimes as much as $3,000 per game.
That pay is pathetic. It would seem to be a great place to start in improving the officiating. I know the Big Sky is not a financially strong conference, but the cost of travel and stipend must be 2 to 3 times more than their actual pay. With a little extra money, could we attract better officials or maybe even poach some from another conference? Honestly, there are some Montana high school refs that could that perform better. Some of the rules are different but there is a pool of possible candidates. Maybe advertisements in SLC area or a direct approach to good high school refs would draw a number of good candidates. I mention SLC because travel is easier to Big Sky locations. Denver would work as well. Having experience would seem to be the key to having better refs. You could market the opportunity as moving up to the college level. Does the Big Sky provide much training?



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by CelticCat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:51 am

Reffing a high school game in MT and a D1 game with UC Davis vs EWU are two different worlds my friend. There is a reason a majority of Griz and MSU skill players aren't from MT. Speed.


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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by Cataholic » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:27 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:51 am
Reffing a high school game in MT and a D1 game with UC Davis vs EWU are two different worlds my friend. There is a reason a majority of Griz and MSU skill players aren't from MT. Speed.
No question they are different, but looking for a holding call is not that complicated. If you took the top 5 Montana high school refs in the state for a crew, they could have done a better job than last weeks crew. I recall Bob Rowling from Butte was a Big Sky ref for years and he started in the lower ranks.

Something has to be done as the officiating is a topic every week.



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by CelticCat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Actually even holding is harder to see as the game speeds up. Even the OL move faster, and are smarter in terms of how long they can hold before letting go. They are usually better coached.

But I agree 100% that a D1 ref, or even a D2 ref should be able to identify a holding call. It does blow my mind how our guys just seem to get held all over. But that's also on the guys, I feel like sometimes they are trying to draw the flag instead of fighting through it. It is what it is, don't expect the call and break off the block.


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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by technoCat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:39 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm
Actually even holding is harder to see as the game speeds up. Even the OL move faster, and are smarter in terms of how long they can hold before letting go. They are usually better coached.

But I agree 100% that a D1 ref, or even a D2 ref should be able to identify a holding call. It does blow my mind how our guys just seem to get held all over. But that's also on the guys, I feel like sometimes they are trying to draw the flag instead of fighting through it. It is what it is, don't expect the call and break off the block.
I really don't expect them to get every holding call but they only seem to get one this year if the defensive player goes to the ground. I don't even care if they make some bad calls as long as they seem to go both ways but the beginning of the last game was 7-1 against us and like 8-3 for us in the second half or something and that just doesn't seem right to me.


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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by onceacat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:15 pm

Reffing is one of the hardest things in the world. Even the things that I know exceptionally well...I was REALLY frustrated with the no holding calls right in front of the umpire, but it’s a pretty low pay, low appreciation job. The kids competing are an order of magnitude more athletic than they were 20years ago when the refs were competing, so that makes it tough too. I know a ref that’s actually been punched over his calls, so I try (not always successfully-I was booing the no calls too) to be understanding of what they do.



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Re: Refs were the WORST

Post by Cataholic » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:00 pm

Big Sky has to improve officiating. The official review that didn’t happen??? How about the motion infraction? I didn’t see two guys moving. So frustrating...



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